fortissmus athletes announced

[BradyJones]

very surprised to see zydrunas and vasyl drop out...

http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2274#2274

[Scott Markowitz]

Too bad about Zydrunas, Vasyl and Misha, but the guys that are going to be there make it look like an awesome field.

If IFSA guys are out (as it sounds from the statement) how is Poundstone there? :confused:

Any guesses as to who will get the wildcard? [/snicker]

[Bob Toth]

I wonder what the IFSA management said to the Fortissimus Steering Committee that ticked them off? Too bad, it would have been great to see Savickas, Koklyaev and Virastyuk there. Guess there is still the Arnold..

Why can't we all just get along?

[NickBrugal]

I'm stoked to see Poundstone was invited. I hope he wins!

[Zach Snyder]

If IFSA guys are out (as it sounds from the statement) how is Poundstone there? :confused:
[/snicker]

i wondered this as well.

in any case, it should be an interesting contest, and good to see poundstone and hollands make it.

[davebeers]

2 guys look out of place on that list

[Jamie McEwan]

Jessen and Dominic usually do well on their home turf, and if they didn't invite some of the top Canadians it would look odd, since it is held in Canada. No doubt that there are others who could fair better in that field, though.

[Derek Poundstone]

Beats me whats going on with the other IFSA athletes. I am an IFSA athlete and contacted Dione before I ever accepted this invitation last month. I was excited at the chance to compete but I cant say I'm not a little dissapointed that I wont have any fellow IFSA guys there. I'm sure they have their reasons. This puts a little more pressure on me as I want to represent IFSA athletes well as I'm sure I will!!

Also, thanks Nick and the others for the words of encouragement and support!!

[Jamie T]

dave

curious to know who looks out of place and why do you think this way??

Jamie

[Scott Markowitz]

I couldn't care less about the IFSA/WSM distinction, but I'm pulling for Derek and Phil as Americans and a few others (Terry, Dom) with whom I've interacted and seem like nice guys, plus the guys who inspired me to get into this in the first place...

Wait a minute. I think I'm pulling for everyone. This should be an awesome contest. Too bad Canada's so far from Florida.

[Jay O'Neill]

dave

curious to know who looks out of place and why do you think this way??

Jamie

I am curious as well....

[Corey DuCharme]

Looks like a good field of competitors. Is there an events list floating around? I remember some talk about the events being odd, even for strongman standards.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Phew, that's a high caliber list if ever I saw one. It really does stink that Zydrunas, Koklyaev and Virastyuk wont compete. I can't say who I want to win though, just too many good guys to root for!!! Although Poundstone definitely ranks pretty high in my mind;)

[Matt Schumann]

Wow man, first a like to give congrats to Derek Poundstone! I hope you win it and I honestly think you can!

Besides Poundstone it looks like WSM with a different name, No Doubt in my mind that everyone on that list deserves it without question. As a fan of the sport I really wish the 3 IFSA athletes mentioned in several post on this thread were included, or accepted the invites. I was really hope'n that this contest would answer all of the questions us fans have and thats "Who is the best strongman in the entire world?"

But i honestly cant wait. Is there any chance this will be on tv
?

[DaneGarreau]

I am curious as well....

Filou and Paulan

No offense to them, but they shouldn't be mentioned in the likes of most of those athletes.

I am also alittle suprised to see them list mariusz as the "number 1 strenth athlete in the world." Last I heard he lost to Vasyl and Z in 04 WSm, as well as a number of people in his last Arnold. Nothing he has done lately would make me rank him any higher than #3.

[James Deffinbaugh]

They have 6 of the top 7 finishers of WSM 2007. Hopefully Dave Ostlund is the host wildcard... Minnesota is close enough. With the weak US dollar, half the license plates in northern MN shopping centers are Canadian anyway.

If Derek wins, hopefully not too many people will take that to mean IFSA athletes are all better than WSM. I mean Derek has the most momentum in strongman, he could very well be better than Savickas, Virastyuk and Koklyaev by now.

[Ryan Duncan]

forgive my ignorance, but where in Canada will it be?

[Jamie T]

Dane

wow.. I am shocked.. you do watch strongman.?? Filiou was a medalist at the 2005 WSM and won Canadas strongest man .. this will be an insanely heavy contest in Quebec.. not only does Dom deserve to be there but he will have to be one of the favourites..

think as a promoter.. someone like Nick Best or Tom McClure (both good guys and good athletes) but they don't put one extra MOD EDIT in a seat.. Dom and Jessen ??? attendance and ratings..

cheers

J

[Garrick Daft]

Great list!
Now can't wait to see the Arnold list!

[Jay Hagadorn]

I'm rooting for Derek, Phil, Terry and Dom. These guys frequent the forum (though two of them need to post hint, hint...)

Derek-

Now's your chance to do your thing!

This will be an awesome contest...

[Jay O'Neill]

Well Paulen was Canada's Strongest Man and has competed and made the finals in WSM. Derek is by far my favorate and has not competed in WSM and is Americas Strongest man. Big Dom IS always a force to be reckoned with and his static strength is unbelievable and he has been on the WSM Podium as well... I think they are equal to many of the athletes. And if either of them is on thier game... watch out...especially at home. [/COLOR]

[BradyJones]

Filou and Paulan

No offense to them, but they shouldn't be mentioned in the likes of most of those athletes.

I am also alittle suprised to see them list mariusz as the "number 1 strenth athlete in the world." Last I heard he lost to Vasyl and Z in 04 WSm, as well as a number of people in his last Arnold. Nothing he has done lately would make me rank him any higher than #3.

i would be surprised to NOT see Mariusz listed as the number 1 Strength athlete in the world. Last i heard he has beated big Z on many occasions in other competitions.... Nothing he has done lately????? :confused: last i heard he won his 4th world strongest man title and won 3 of the 4 super series this year along with many other competitions...

[DaneGarreau]

Dane

wow.. I am shocked.. you do watch strongman.?? Filiou was a medalist at the 2005 WSM and won Canadas strongest man .. this will be an insanely heavy contest in Quebec.. not only does Dom deserve to be there but he will have to be one of the favourites..



I watch plenty of strongman.

Like I said, no offense to the guy.

He didn't even make it out of the qualifiers(WSM) this year; or in 06 for that matter.

In the WSC Riga(2007) contest Filiou got 10th place; behind strongman greats such as Peter Aan, and René Minkwitz.

In the WSC Moscow(2007) contest Filiou got 12th place behind Pavel Sorocka,Rolands Gulbis, and Vladimir Bondarenko.

And who all did he beat in Canada's Strongest man this year??? Paulan?? I like Paulan as a strongman and I think he is very good, but once again, he is not world class and beating he does not quality someone as world class.

It's all well and good that Filiou medaled in 05, but that was in 05. The Chicago WhiteSox won the world series in 05 but I don't see anyone touting them as one of the best.

[Alex Klotz]

It's a shame that the two strongest guys from IFSA dropped out. Now we still can't find out who's the best/strongest.

[Jay O'Neill]

I watch plenty of strongman.

Like I said, no offense to the guy.

He didn't even make it out of the qualifiers(WSM) this year; or in 06 for that matter.

In the WSC Riga(2007) contest Filiou got 10th place; behind strongman greats such as Peter Aan, and René Minkwitz.

In the WSC Moscow(2007) contest Filiou got 12th place behind Pavel Sorocka,Rolands Gulbis, and Vladimir Bondarenko.

And who all did he beat in Canada's Strongest man this year??? Paulan?? I like Paulan as a strongman and I think he is very good, but once again, he is not world class and beating he does not quality someone as world class.

It's all well and good that Filiou medaled in 05, but that was in 05. The Chicago WhiteSox won the world series in 05 but I don't see anyone touting them as one of the best.

Paulen is not world class... well I guess we should erase his showings at WSM.

[BradyJones]

Paulen is not world class... well I guess we should erase his showings at WSM.

this is coming from the same guy who said that he wouldn't rank Mariusz any higher than #3, and said that he hasn't done anything lately

[Kalle Beck]

To bad they dropped out but at least Derek gets to prove himself against the top guys from WSM.

Good luck Derek!

I just want to see an events list........

[DaneGarreau]

Paulen is not world class... well I guess we should erase his showings at WSM.

I never said he wasn't good, only that he wasn't World Class.

In 2007 Was not invited to WSM.
In 2006, got last place in the QUALIFYING GROUP.
In 2005, Got 3rd place in the QUALIFYING GROUP.

In 2003 He got into the finals and got 8th overall, not a bad result, but this was quite a long time ago, and still not a result that qualify an athlete as best of the best.(In 2003 the Marlins won the World Series, no one is ooing and awwing over them anymore).

[DaneGarreau]

i would be surprised to NOT see Mariusz listed as the number 1 Strength athlete in the world. Last i heard he has beated big Z on many occasions in other competitions.... Nothing he has done lately????? :confused: last i heard he won his 4th world strongest man title and won 3 of the 4 super series this year along with many other competitions...

The only realistic way to rank athletes that compete in these type of competitions(and boxing/mma/golf) is to see how they do against common opponants and against eachother.

Here are the last 2 results of Mariusz and Zydrunas/Vasyl Head to Head....

2006 Arnold-Zydrunas 1st; Vasyl 2nd; Mariusz 3rd
2004 World's Strongest Man-Vasyl 1st; Zydrunas 2nd; Mariusz 3rd(technically disqualified)

These are the two most recent competitions head to head between Mariusz and Z/V.
I know that Mariusz pounded these two into the ground in 02 and 03, but once again, that is in the past.

As far as common opponants go, in 2006 WSM Phil Beat Mariusz; in 2005 IFSA WC Z/V beat Phil very badly.

And BTW, I'm rooting for Derek at Fortimuss.

[Jay O'Neill]

I never said he wasn't good, only that he wasn't World Class.

In 2007 Was not invited to WSM.
In 2006, got last place in the QUALIFYING GROUP.
In 2005, Got 3rd place in the QUALIFYING GROUP.

In 2003 He got into the finals and got 8th overall, not a bad result, but this was quite a long time ago, and still not a result that qualify an athlete as best of the best.(In 2003 the Marlins won the World Series, no one is ooing and awwing over them anymore).

Dane you are a great follower of the sport... but your definition of World Class leaves something to be desired. HE WAS CANADA'S STRONGEST MAN!!! How Much More WOrld Class can you get! and enuf with the damn Baseball analogies... The Marlins Were not America's Strongest Man either... does that mean they are not world class athletes...

[BradyJones]

The only realistic way to rank athletes that compete in these type of competitions(and boxing/mma/golf) is to see how they do against common opponants and against eachother.

Here are the last 2 results of Mariusz and Zydrunas/Vasyl Head to Head....

2006 Arnold-Zydrunas 1st; Vasyl 2nd; Mariusz 3rd
2004 World's Strongest Man-Vasyl 1st; Zydrunas 2nd; Mariusz 3rd(technically disqualified)

These are the two most recent competitions head to head between Mariusz and Z/V.
I know that Mariusz pounded these two into the ground in 02 and 03, but once again, that is in the past.

As far as common opponants go, in 2006 WSM Phil Beat Mariusz; in 2005 IFSA WC Z/V beat Phil very badly.

And BTW, I'm rooting for Derek at Fortimuss.

Mariusz beat Phil badly in 2007, and as i stated before he has beaten Z 17 out of 20 competitions in the last 4 years.. I will agree that Z is stronger than Mariusz but as a strength athlete not anywhere close... Mariusz has also been known not to prepare whatsoever for the Arnold and simply show up.

[Kalle Beck]

I think Filiou has problems with competing internationally, in different climates, etc. I think the travel effects him more than other athletes for whatever reason.

It will be interesting to see how he does competing against top strongmen on his home turf.

[Jamie T]

Kalle

you hit it right on the head!!!!

J

[JohnCook]

Mariusz beat Phil badly in 2007, and as i stated before he has beaten Z 17 out of 20 competitions in the last 4 years.. I will agree that Z is stronger than Mariusz but as a strength athlete not anywhere close... Mariusz has also been known not to prepare whatsoever for the Arnold and simply show up.


I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a list of the 17 out of 20 competitions you speak of. Just to keep this debate based on facts, since Dane is doing a good job at presenting his.

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

Same thing as always.....
They say they get ALL the great competitors together and let them compete in THE Strength Challenge.
Zydrunas Savickas, Vasyl Virastyuk and Michael Koklyaev all not there?
3 of the greatest Athletes of our time cannot compete?
Sorry, thats just funny when grown up man cant to compromise.........

Dont get me wrong, the list is great, full of the best athlets. But I was looking forward to see them all compete together in an comp beside the arnold.

Ukraine, Russia and Lithuania are missing in this list.
For me its not the comp that was promised, basically it looks like a WSM Comp with Derek being the only IFSA Guy.

I hope that they change somthing. Like the top 4 guys from IFSA, top 4 guys from WSM, and 2 more competitors based on there history in the sport.

[BradyJones]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a list of the 17 out of 20 competitions you speak of. Just to keep this debate based on facts, since Dane is doing a good job at presenting his.

I think this was an interview with Mariusz from 2006 but im not completely sure

A lot of your fans are wondering why you did not partake in Arnold Classic which is thought to be a very prestigous event?

This prestige comes only from one thing - a name in front of it. Arnold Schwarzenegger is a legend in the sport of bodybuilding. But the hardest competition is still World's Strongest Man. You also have to pay attention to Arnold's competitors. Zyndrunas Savickas won the Classic three times. In the last fours years, during our 20 meets I won 17 of them.
__________________


Straight from the horses mouth. I would think he is telling the truth..

[Josh Kamins]

Same thing as always.....
They say they get ALL the great competitors together and let them compete in THE Strength Challenge.
Zydrunas Savickas, Vasyl Virastyuk and Michael Koklyaev all not there?
3 of the greatest Athletes of our time cannot compete?
Sorry, thats just funny when grown up man cant to compromise.........

Dont get me wrong, the list is great, full of the best athlets. But I was looking forward to see them all compete together in an comp beside the arnold.

Ukraine, Russia and Lithuania are missing in this list.
For me its not the comp that was promised, basically it looks like a WSM Comp with Derek being the only IFSA Guy.

I hope that they change somthing. Like the top 4 guys from IFSA, top 4 guys from WSM, and 2 more competitors based on there history in the sport.

Thats how they wanted it, there was problems with IFSA, so their top 3 didn't get included. Blame IFSA, not the organizers of this comp.

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

I blame both....
I dont know who is responsible.
If IFSA says no, not the top 3 guys but Derek is allowed to compete and he was 4th, where is the reason?
Give me one and im ok. I dont like when things are to complicated:: "........that given IFSA's management's attitude, they are now considered as having withdrawn from the LOUIS CYR WORLD STRENGTH CHALLENGE and therefore failed to stand to its challenge." what?
So someone has done something that keeps them away?
The attitude of IFSA managment?
Maybe:
http://74.205.126.46/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2266#2266

So I see it this way: Both guys were not able (again) to find a possible way that fits both needs, and now the strongman world has to "suffer" again.

Sorry thats just.......

If I would organize a comp and would make that much promotion, like it was done in the past few month for Fortissimus 2008, with statements like: A comp the strength world has never seen before or we will get all the great guys and see who really is the strongest.....
Then I would work my ass of to get them all in and if its just not posible, I would give a "real" reason, a statement why! But maybe Ironmid will post something in the next few days.

[Ian Duggan]

I find it ironic that this -

"Remember the IFSA Strongman ‘IFSA vs. WSM: Head-To-Head’ proposal as reported on the Ironmind website Monday, February 19, 2007? See here for details. For those keeping score, the number of challengers to date equals exactly - NONE.

Maybe the 2007 SS/WSM podium will be up to the challenge? Any wagers on that happening?"

... is still on the front page of the IFSA website.

WSM folk were dead quiet all the way through the build up to this, whilst the IFSA were constantly commenting on it. "The prize-money's not as high as us," "the equipment isn't going to be good enough," "the refereeing isn't good enough," "they haven't organised any contest before and don't know what they're doing," and when it comes to presenting the athletes... 9 out of 10 are WSM guys.

All mouth and no trousers (the org, not the athletes). In fact, if the odd little hints in the Fortissimus press release are to be believed, IFSA wanted a say in the athletes invited, the refereeing and the event selection, which is ridiculous if true.

It's excellent that Derek is in there though. GO POUNDSTONE!

[Derek Poundstone]

I just got word last night from the higher ups in IFSA that they are not sanctioning this contest. IFSA and Paul Ohl, the Fortisimus promoter and organizer, apparently cant come to an agreement about, well, anything. This puts me in a pickle as I am an IFSA athlete and would suffer consiquences for competing outside an IFSA sanctioned event. This puts me in quite a bind as I am loyal to IFSA but spoke with Paul several times over the phone over the past month and gave him my word that I would compete in Fortissimus. IFSA gave the notice to Paul on Friday that they were withdrawing their athletes, this was the same day he called me and asked for my word that I would compete in this contest. I told him "yes" as I was not aware that IFSA said "no". I was left in the dark about this because when I was first approached about this contest last month, I contacted Dione to make sure it was OK before making any promises!! This could not have come at a worse time as I am currently dealing with several other very important issues going on in my already very hectic life and dont want to deal with any more difficulties :confused:

All I want to do is lift heavy crap,!!

[Ian Duggan]

Man, that's rough.

Actually, that's a bit dirty from Paul. Sounds like he tried to get you to give your word when he knew it would put you in a bind.

Alternatively... you could do Fortissimus and move over to WSM afterwards. Seems more like your kinda comp. any way...

:D

[Mike Landrich]

I just got word last night from the higher ups in IFSA that they are not sanctioning this contest. IFSA and Paul Ohl, the Fortisimus promoter and organizer, apparently cant come to an agreement about, well, anything. This puts me in a pickle as I am an IFSA athlete and would suffer consiquences for competing outside an IFSA sanctioned event. This puts me in quite a bind as I am loyal to IFSA but spoke with Paul several times over the phone over the past month and gave him my word that I would compete in Fortissimus. IFSA gave the notice to Paul on Friday that they were withdrawing their athletes, this was the same day he called me and asked for my word that I would compete in this contest. I told him "yes" as I was not aware that IFSA said "no". I was left in the dark about this because when I was first approached about this contest last month, I contacted Dione to make sure it was OK before making any promises!! This could not have come at a worse time as I am currently dealing with several other very important issues going on in my already very hectic life and dont want to deal with any more difficulties :confused:

All I want to do is lift heavy crap,!!

If Paul knew IFSA had withdrawn their sanctioning and then called you, he is scum. If he didn't know until after speaking with you, then he should've called you back and allowed you to withdraw privately. Not doing so and releasing your name as a competitor was a pretty low thing to do. Your word to him was based on something he knew to be false, therefore I would say you are 100% within your rights morally to withdraw. Sorry, Derek, but I say stay with IFSA. They are the federation in which you belong and one in which you are excelling. We need an American to win their championship

[Paul_Koskinen]

Fortissimus 2008: A Good Idea When It Lasted

:IMHO:

[Mike Landrich]

Mariusz beat Phil badly in 2007, and as i stated before he has beaten Z 17 out of 20 competitions in the last 4 years.. I will agree that Z is stronger than Mariusz but as a strength athlete not anywhere close... Mariusz has also been known not to prepare whatsoever for the Arnold and simply show up.

Brady
You seem like a good guy, but use your head. "Mariusz has also been known not to prepare whatsoever for the Arnold and simply show up" That is an insult to the man you idolize, like he's too lazy or stupid to prepare. Marius is well known for his ability to stay focused for the extreme number of contests in which he competes. If he was as dominant as you claim, he would not need to prepare specifically for any one show. Just admit it, no one wins every time and the Arnold is not a competition that suits Marius' strengths (no pun intended).

As someone else said, list these 17 competitions. Except for the Arnold, I don't think they've competed against one another much since WSM 2004, in which Marius was beaten by Vasyl and Zydrunas. I could be mistaken though. Since you listed the number, prove me wrong.

Mike

[Terry_hollands]

Brady
You seem like a good guy, but use your head. "Mariusz has also been known not to prepare whatsoever for the Arnold and simply show up" That is an insult to the man you idolize, like he's too lazy or stupid to prepare. Marius is well known for his ability to stay focused for the extreme number of contests in which he competes. If he was as dominant as you claim, he would not need to prepare specifically for any one show. Just admit it, no one wins every time and the Arnold is not a competition that suits Marius' strengths (no pun intended).

As someone else said, list these 17 competitions. Except for the Arnold, I don't think they've competed against one another much since WSM 2004, in which Marius was beaten by Vasyl and Zydrunas. I could be mistaken though. Since you listed the number, prove me wrong.

Mike
I bet if you listed the last 20 times they all competed against each other Mariusz would've won most of them!!

[D.J. Satterfield]

The way I see this is we have an early version of WSM 2008.

[DaneGarreau]

I bet if you listed the last 20 times they all competed against each other Mariusz would've won most of them!!

But the point is that Zydrunas/Vasyl have won the most RECENT competitions.

I don't think anyone will argue who the best strongman was in 02 and 03(well, you could argue Hugo). But that was in 02 and 03, we are talking about NOW, like in REAL TIME.

[Mike Landrich]

I bet if you listed the last 20 times they all competed against each other Mariusz would've won most of them!!

I don't doubt it, I just don't think they've gone up against one another 20 times in the last 4 years, since they didn't do much together in '05, '06 or '07.

[Corey DuCharme]

I think Filiou has problems with competing internationally, in different climates, etc. I think the travel effects him more than other athletes for whatever reason.

It will be interesting to see how he does competing against top strongmen on his home turf.

He also openly stated on this forum that he has trouble dealing with the presence of television crews and the hype surrounding bigger contests.

Something tells me that he will be able to work these struggles out for this contest and we will see the real Dom.

I just got word last night from the higher ups in IFSA that they are not sanctioning this contest. IFSA and Paul Ohl, the Fortisimus promoter and organizer, apparently cant come to an agreement about, well, anything. This puts me in a pickle as I am an IFSA athlete and would suffer consiquences for competing outside an IFSA sanctioned event. This puts me in quite a bind as I am loyal to IFSA but spoke with Paul several times over the phone over the past month and gave him my word that I would compete in Fortissimus. IFSA gave the notice to Paul on Friday that they were withdrawing their athletes, this was the same day he called me and asked for my word that I would compete in this contest. I told him "yes" as I was not aware that IFSA said "no". I was left in the dark about this because when I was first approached about this contest last month, I contacted Dione to make sure it was OK before making any promises!! This could not have come at a worse time as I am currently dealing with several other very important issues going on in my already very hectic life and dont want to deal with any more difficulties

All I want to do is lift heavy crap,!!

Derek, you have proven to be a stand up guy through all your posts on this board. Your fans will understand that you are at the mercy of all the political garbage surrounding your sport which is out of your control. Do whatever is best for you and your future; your fans will understand. God bless in all the other trials you are currently facing!

[Ian Duggan]

The way I see this is we have an early version of WSM 2008.
... with slightly unusual events.

Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Which doesn't make this a bad competition by any stretch of the imagination, but the lack of IFSA guys leave the same questions hanging that were there before about who's the best.

Shame... could have been so much more...

[Terry_hollands]

But the point is that Zydrunas/Vasyl have won the most RECENT competitions.

I don't think anyone will argue who the best strongman was in 02 and 03(well, you could argue Hugo). But that was in 02 and 03, we are talking about NOW, like in REAL TIME.
I understand what you're saying, and it would be nice to see them all meet in a strongman contest now!! In 04 Mariusz was totally dominant too apart from WSM.

IMO at WSM Mariusz would beat both of them.

[Mike Landrich]

I understand what you're saying, and it would be nice to see them all meet in a strongman contest now!! In 04 Mariusz was totally dominant too apart from WSM.

IMO at WSM Mariusz would beat both of them.

But would he beat them at IFSA World Championships? Here we go again...... :LOL:

[Terry_hollands]

But would he beat them at IFSA World Championships? Here we go again...... :LOL:
quite possibly!!

[Brandon Smith]

The way I see it, it is a shame that we don't have the IFSA guys involved with the contest to see all the top guys in the world compete at some "non-standard" events. But I'm still excited to see all the WSM guys who -are- competing, and hopefully Derek too. I think it'll be an interesting contest, and the way I look at it, it's another great international show. Remember the old days when we'd see WSM once a year with a couple of qualifying heats and the finals and that was it? Now we have that plus all the WSMSS, WSC, IFSA shows, etc.

Hoping to make it up and root on Phil and Derek and Terry and Big Dom!

[Mike Landrich]

quite possibly!!


which is why it sucks that IFSA pulled out of Fortissimus. Oh well, we'll just have to keep having these debates. Seriously though, without real head to head comps in both formats, there is no use arguing the "What if.." debates.

[Matt Schumann]

Yeah Ryan I dont remember where in Canada the event will be taking place. My fiacne'e is probaly going to be away in VA for the whole summer so I might make the trip up

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

First, most Strongman prepare for the Arnold, they gain weight, lift heavy more frequently and so on.....
If Mariusz prepared for last year arnold, I dont know and honestly I dont care. He is one of the strongest guys around. Fact.
All I know/expect is that Mariusz is going to prepare for this years Arnold. He has won nearly every comp thats out there, 4 times WSM, but he never won the arnold and trust me, he is not happy until he wins this one, too.
So I think he going to make quite an impact this year......

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second,
so if I understand things right, if Derek competes he risks to get banned from IFSA?

[Terry_hollands]

which is why it sucks that IFSA pulled out of Fortissimus. Oh well, we'll just have to keep having these debates. Seriously though, without real head to head comps in both formats, there is no use arguing the "What if.." debates.
I totally agree and I usually hate the IFSA vs. SS debate. Personally I wish the IFSA guys were doing it as I would love to go head to head with those guys!! I'm sure all the atheletes feel the same, both IFSA and WSM. It's just another time when all the BS gets in the way of what would be a great contest!!

Oh well hopefully one day it will all sort itself out and there will be a true contest with all the best guys in the world there

[lhprop1]

The only realistic way to rank athletes that compete in these type of competitions(and boxing/mma/golf) is to see how they do against common opponants and against eachother.

If you're going by common opponents, I seem to remember Stoyan Todorchev defeating Vasyl at a WSMC event this past summer. We all know that Vasyl won the IFSA championships, but Stoyan didn't even make the WSM finals. I'm just sayin'.

Either way, Derek is getting hosed and is in a tough position.

[dronga]

I just got word last night from the higher ups in IFSA that they are not sanctioning this contest. IFSA and Paul Ohl, the Fortisimus promoter and organizer, apparently cant come to an agreement about, well, anything. This puts me in a pickle as I am an IFSA athlete and would suffer consiquences for competing outside an IFSA sanctioned event. This puts me in quite a bind as I am loyal to IFSA but spoke with Paul several times over the phone over the past month and gave him my word that I would compete in Fortissimus. IFSA gave the notice to Paul on Friday that they were withdrawing their athletes, this was the same day he called me and asked for my word that I would compete in this contest. I told him "yes" as I was not aware that IFSA said "no". I was left in the dark about this because when I was first approached about this contest last month, I contacted Dione to make sure it was OK before making any promises!! This could not have come at a worse time as I am currently dealing with several other very important issues going on in my already very hectic life and dont want to deal with any more difficulties :confused:

All I want to do is lift heavy crap,!!


Derek, this sucks, I mean all it comes down to is you want to compete. I understand loyalty and politics, but can't the powers that be put that aside and let you compete, hell, let anyone compete! All these athletes want to do is compete, not sit around and wait for a greenlight of where they can compete and who they can compete against. Derek, good luck in your quests, you have defiantely proven yourself America's Strongest Man!

[davebeers]

the promoter of this contest needs to swallow his pride in dealing with the ifsa so that he can have a legitimate contest.
This thing is quickly falling apart before its even organized. At this point i don't know why athletes would even want to do this show.
Lets not forget that the athletes listed were merely invites, no where did i see that they were confirmed. I have a feeling when the events come out a couple more guys will drop out.
Derek,
You've got a good thing going right now with ifsa. I'd say pass on this show this year and just watch and see how it goes. You can always jump in next year when they work all the kinks out.

[Garrick Daft]

Paul Ohl probably called Derek to make sure he was competing because he knew how passionate Derek was about being in this contest that would put him with the WSM guys. Paul wasn't being slimy or anything. Personally it is nice of him not to withdraw Derek's name because of someone else. I wonder if Z, V, and Misha got a call or just woke up, read Ironmind, and found out Hulk Hogan style. :LOL:

BTW, Mariusz said bring them on, he's putting it on the line, where is Z, V, Misha.

Now one thing that would be nice is if they wildcarded Travis into the mix!! :EP:

[MarshallWhite]

Derek- There is a point in an athlete's career where they become valuable enough to make their own decisions.....you are at that point...IFSA needs you something fierce right now...you're young, well spoken, and freakishly strong.....you have what they want and I highly doubt that they will "cut their nose off to spite their face"....and if they do punish you for making a decision to compete then do you really want to be associated with someone like that?

I am so friggin sick of this crap the only reason IFSA gets away with this is because the athletes let themselves be "bullied" into doing what some guy in a suit wants them to do!!!!!!! This has the potential to be one of the greatest shows ever...finally putting to rest the debate of who actually is the strongest....and it might not happen because of some whiny babies (who happen to be grown men)! I am not trying to be offensive but the top level guys need to GROW SOME BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop being pushed around...like I said do you really want to work for someone who only has their own personal and selfish interest in mind? I sure as hell don't!

[Ryan Brown]

Derek,

If you signed an IFSA contract, review its terms. I have not reviewed one of their contracts in several years, but it used to be that you could do non-sanctioned contests, but you needed to ask permission or something to that effect. It could be that you could get out of the bind you find yourself in without having to "take any chances" or make any major decisions.

[Matt Schumann]

From a fans point of view this really hurts the sport. For a while now the fans have had all of these questions and debates because of the split from WSM and IFSA, and im not sure if im right but from reading certain post on here it sounds like the athletes would like to compete against one another as well. And when it all comes down to it, isnt it all about the athletes and the fans?

From what i have read (dont know how true) but all of the problems that have risen up have been soley from Ifsa management. From what i have read WSM allows their athletes to do what ever and ifsa vanishes you Like Romeo from Viena or some crap lol

IMO as a fan im disapointed, i wanted to see ifsa's best especially poundstone. Now I probaly wont even make the drive up to watch it, im already going to see WSMSS in January

[Derek Poundstone]

Wow, this topic has exploded but I don't want my issue to sway anyones feelings about this competition or especially IFSA. There's more then one way to skin a cat. IFSA has their way and SS/TWI has there's. I dont want to be caught in the middle and right now I don't want to just drop out of the contest. IFSA has some valid points and doesn't want us going into a contest blind. That being said, Paul has been very respectful of me and from the beginning told me that I was not a favorite athlete amungst the other board members who were deciding who would get an invite. Paul and I exchanged many E-mails and I actually sent him the links to some of Garricks videos so he could show them to the powers that be who were deciding who would get an invite to this "decathalon of strength". At the same time, IFSA was fighting for me as well saying either I was in the comp or no one from IFSA was in the comp. IFSA had some requests that I dont really think were to unreasonable. This might not be the end of it. Maybe the fans can help in some way. I dont think this competition will generate quite as much hype if IFSA athletes are not there. I dont think this should be an IFSA vs SS thing though as I'm rather tired of the debate. Take the top 3 guys from wither IFSA or SS on any give day and it could be anyone's show. This WAS a chance for all the athletes to get together and try our hand at something new and go head to head with guys most of us haven't had a chance to compete against in many years or our careers for that matter. I do however appreciate all the kind words from the fellow Forum members in regards to seeing me in this contest or appreciating the "pickle" I'm in! Ryan, as far as contracts go, I'm not in one and never signed one. This is not by design, I just never got around to turning one in. As I said earlier I have a few other things I've got to get ironed out in regards to some none paying tenants in my apartment building, a unit I'm redoing and some job issues! This couldn't have come at a worse time!! Gotta love it, but hey, my training getting ready for the Arnold is going great!! I'm a PR setting machine!

[Joshua Davis]

I can see everyone's stance...

IFSA is basically saying "We aren't going to let our athletes compete on equipment that can harm them, or that will give other competitors an unfair advantage."

The rebuttal being, "No one is getting an indicator of the events or implements, so there is no advantage to either fed."

It still sounds like politics. It's a bummer.

[jay lyttle]

derek not a favorite of the other board members, what in the heck do you have to do that poundstone hasn't to impress these guys! you go tear em' up derek

[Billy Wolt]

This has the potential to be one of the greatest shows ever...finally putting to rest the debate of who actually is the strongest


i thought the Arnold already does that?

[Billy Wolt]

to some none paying tenants in my apartment building, a unit I'm redoing and some job issues!


i'd hate to be your tenant and not paying rent LOL

[Matt Schumann]

Yeah Billy, all of a sudden your going out the door to go to work and you see your car has been flipped over by your landlord haha

hopefully we can get some more of those pr video's up on youtube derek??



i'd hate to be your tenant and not paying rent LOL

[Mac McAlister]

another great one liner from the viper," IM A PR SETTING MACHINE!" i mean seriously who doesnt love Derek Poundstone?

[BradyJones]

quite possibly!!

I'll second that

[Mike Westerling]

Lets not forget you could always bring the WSM title back to USA again! Im sure a lot of your fans, myself included, would love to see you leave IFSA and compete in the SS and WSM in the us so we could go and watch.
-Mike

[Garrick Daft]

I can't believe that Zydrunas, Vasyl, and Mikhail are not doing this contest.... I mean you think they would be frothing at the mouth because of Mariusz being in it and what Mariusz said about bringing it on. They really have no room to talk anymore if they don't do this contest.

and Andrus, where the heck is he. His grip strength would make him perfect for this contest I would think.

I guess though, if Mariusz doesn't show at the Arnold, then he's doing the same thing by avoiding M,A,Z,V... massive...haha, the Four Horsemen.. ahhh crap I'm being silly now...

79 days till the Arnold. http://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/j4w9k7

[Adam Witzel]

The rebuttal being, "No one is getting an indicator of the events or implements, so there is no advantage to either fed."

Didn't the organizers of Fortissimus state that all equipment would be unveiled 3 months prior to the competition? Would that not be plenty of time for IFSA/WSM athletes/owners/etc to inspect the equipment for safety?

Unless I'm just making stuff up in my head now... :confused:

[jay lyttle]

maybe they were frothing at the mouth garrick, until they realized mariuz was going to be there

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

This is NOT Sparta. I'll watch the contest, but without those 3 guys, I'm not exactly looking forward to it like I was.


I'm still hoping Derek gets to compete, I'd love to see him beat Pudz. Viper Power!

[Matt Schumann]

<TABLE class=bodytext width=641 align=center></TD></TR><TBODY><TR><TD class=bodytext></TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=menudate align=middle bgColor=#cc0033>Wednesday, December 12, 2007 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=bigboldtext align=left>IFSA Turns Down Wild Card by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2007 IronMind

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=bodytext>Fortissimus tried to reopen the door for IFSA participation in the 2008 Louis Cyr World Strength Challenge by offering IFSA the wild card slot, but IFSA has respectfully declined the offer, and IronMind has been given the full offer and reply, and is presenting them below, verbatim.

Following is the offer extended by Fortissimus steering committee chairman Paul Ohl to IFSA managing director Christian Fennell, and then, Christian Fennell’s reply, for all who would like to read the exact exchanges that took place on this topic.

”Hi Christian,

Thank you for the letter. Let me just get a few things straight. FORTISSIMUS stated from the beginning that it would NOT seek the sanctioning of the event by any organization based on past experience. If there is any additional money available it will go DIRECTLY TO THE ATHLETES. It was also clear, and you were informed right from the start, that FORTISSIMUS would be a decathlon of strength and that the events, some being a tribute to Louis Cyr yet adapted to modern times, would be disclosed same day to all athletes THREE AND A HALF MONTHS BEFORE COMPETITION TIME. This seems pretty much in line with any organization's policy. FORTISSIMUS has also informed you and extensively discussed with you the fact that the athletes, all strength athletes selected on the premium list, were to confirm personally their accepting the challenge.

And we had come to an agreement as to the "no restrictions" item. You had assured us that given our close cooperation-going from 8 to 10 participants, adding one more IFSA affiliated athlete-that such restrictions would fall. It meant in clear that the IFSA athletes would guarantee their showing up at the competition. You did not honor your commitment. As for safety and security of the IFSA athletes we have reassured you in any possible way with the exception of the "branded" equipment: we told you that using the IFSA trademarked equipment was not and will not be an option.

FORTISSIMUS 2008 maintains as its main concern the ATHLETE'S FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO COMPETE WITH NO RESTRICTIONS. That includes the right of any strength athlete to be totally informed on the conditions, the rules and the safety and security measures including medical attendance; the right to be fully paid the entire prize money he has been promised and to be paid immediately following the competition; the right of speech, amongst other things. FORTISSIMUS 2008 guarantees those rights to the participants by contract.

On these grounds, FORTISSIMUS offers you the wildcard that it holds as the no 10 spot in the competition. If you do accept the above-mentioned, we consent to IFSA the right to select ONE strength athlete amongst the three that had to withdraw. Providing however that you will guarantee that the selected athlete will accept the "no restrictions" clause. Should that athlete decide by himself, once on location, that the challenge proves too much for him, and should he by then elect to withdraw, he will still be entitled to full expenses for the duration of the event.

Thank you for considering this offer of further cooperation,

PAUL OHL
Chairman
FORTISSIMUS 2008”

And here is Christian Fennell’s reply:

”Hi Paul –

Thank you for your email.

First of all, never did I state that the condition of the IFSA athletes to be able to withdraw once the full event detail was announced ‘would fall’. In point of fact, I had your personal guarantee that we would hold this right. However, when you officially removed this condition with your email dated, Dec. 6th. , IFSA Strongman could no longer support the event. As I have explained to you, IFSA Strongman can not and will not sanction or support any event without our first being able to evaluate fully the details of the event; we have a responsibility to our athletes to always ensure that any event we sanction them to compete in is governed in a professional and safe manner. To date, we simply have not been provided the necessary information to be able to accurately evaluate your event.

We respectfully decline your offer of the ‘Wild Card’ position for the event.

Sincerely,

Christian Fennell
Managing Director,
IFSA Strongman Ltd.”</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Matt Stiefel]

forgive my ignorance, but where in Canada will it be?


Does it matter? There is only one road there.

[Ian Duggan]

Why on earth are they publishing private email to Ironmind?

This whole thing is starting to feel more and more unprofessional...

[Ryan Brown]

I'm not sure why Mr. Ohl is trying to lock this down with the athletes before he even announes anything about the events. At any contest people can back out if they feel the events are crazy. There is some indication at this contest that the events will be very unusual. If the events are good, then I would think it would be best to finalize those and go ahead and announce them. Then IFSA would have the info it presumably needs and I'm sure the top three guys would show up. IFSA doesn't want its brand injured by either 1) hurting some of its top athletes so they cannot compete in IFSA; or 2) setting up the contest so that the IFSA guys look bad compared to their true strength. I can see point 2 being more of an issue for Z. I think Misha and V could do about whatever.

[Matt Stiefel]

Why on earth are they publishing private email to Ironmind?

This whole thing is starting to feel more and more unprofessional...


I just read that after making my previous post and was about to say the same thing. I am afraid this will not live nearly up to the hype they have been trying to generate and we may be in for a long downhill slide.

[JohnCook]

As a fan, I've officially crossed this off my list as a comp I'm looking forward to. Too many politics for me. At least the Arnold is coming up soon.

[Josh Kamins]

Looks like they are both to blame. I still don't understand IFSA's hesitance when it comes to equipment safety. The events will be announced 3 1/2 months beforehand, and then IFSA or the athletes can inspect the equipment before the competition starts and withdraw if need be.

Also, it is odd that the athletes have been announced before the events are chosen, perhaps this takes away the athletes opportunity to only do it if the events are to their strengths though...

[Ryan Brown]

Looks like they are both to blame. I still don't understand IFSA's hesitance when it comes to equipment safety. The events will be announced 3 1/2 months beforehand, and then IFSA or the athletes can inspect the equipment before the competition starts and withdraw if need be...

edit; reread

[Billy Wolt]

takes away the athletes opportunity to only do it if the events are to their strengths though...


i don't see how it's possible...it seems like the same group of guys at every contest :)

[ClayEdgin]

As a fan of the sport I'll be enjoying the competition. It's a cool theme with cool events.

[Reggie Brown]

Ya know, this whole deal just stinks.

The split is just so jacked, I'm at a loss for words. I'm sure that IFSA's sole concern is the safety of their athletes. :rolleyes:

Sounded like such a cool idea to try and get everyone together and compete, and it's just been killed.

I know Marshall has been very outspoken with regards to this matter. I know that if I had to choose between the two, I would not be a happy camper.

It's just such a small sport, I don't understand why we need so many different federations...

Reggie

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

The way I see it, IFSA are being asked to commit beforehand to a competition they know little to nothing about. That alone should send warning bells to Christian Fennel.

I'd be willing to bet that people won't pull out if this show doesn't suit their strengths, from what I gather on this board (the top pro's) really want an opportunity to compete against all available athletes. Maybe big Z would want out if it's going to be a full blown light endurance contest, but I HIGHLY doubt that will be the case. Let's be honest, the IFSA and WSM competitions are hardly poles apart events wise, it's not heavy (IFSA) vs light (WSM), they're quite evenly matched right now.

Announce the events now and only then could there be reconcilliation IMO.

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

The latest:

Wednesday, December 12, 2007
IronMind on Fortissimus: Here’s What We Think by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2007 IronMind


Fortissimus 2008 developments have been flooding the IronMind News lately and unless you have been reading everything steadily, it would be easy to get lost in the details, so if IronMind might summarize the situation, even loosely, this is how we see things.

Fortissimus started with a huge leg up simply by virtue of being hosted by a Quebecer, who also, most likely, happens to be the world’s foremost expert on Louis Cyr. Imagine this: Instead of a strongman contest either constructed by TV crews busily moving plastic cactuses around in the background and delaying events until the sun gives cameramen the best light, or former McKinsey consultants claiming to be ready to take strongman to the financial heights of Formula One or the WWE, we have a guy who, guess what, had a more substantial basis for organizing the contest. Frankly, IronMind found a lot to like in this idea.

And from those beginnings, grew the idea that this decathlon of strength - in the tradition of the great Louis Cyr - could bring together the major players from all corners of the strongman world, regardless of which alphabet soup strongman federation they were aligned with. And, unlike simply picking their preferred player - such as the guy who signed a contract to return 10% of his earnings to them, or the guy whose TV market promised the most viewers, or the guy with the weak, skinny legs but a great shaved head and even better tattoos - the organizers of Fortissimus did something radical: They turned to the worldwide strongman community and asked for their input on the top strongmen worldwide. IronMind jumped in and, to get the ball rolling, said that besides obviously giving Mariusz Pudzianowski and Zydrunas Savickas top billing, we felt that Vasyl Virastyuk had to be considered as a top echelon competitor. Market forces, objective reality and democratic processes - once again, IronMind liked this.

The market spoke and, lo and behold, a really balanced, plausible list emerged, and before too much longer, it looked as if the top guys from IFSA were going to be be banging heads with the top guys from the World’s Strongest Man side of things. IronMind would like to say that from everything we saw - and we were privy to a lot of what was being passed back and forth - IFSA’s managing director Christian Fennell and Fortissimus’s steering committee chairman Paul Ohl were headed in the right direction and looking as if they were well on their way to making strongman history . . . sure, there were still disagreements about details and there was some level of restraint on each side, a certain reluctance to trust the other guys too much, but overall, things were going well. IronMind liked this, too.

Everything fell apart, though, when Fortissimus gave IFSA a deadline for accepting, basically, the notion that they - Fortissimus - were calling the shots and they wanted direct confirmation from the IFSA athletes that they were coming to play ball - IFSA said that they could not accept this. A leitmotif in the IFSA criticism of Fortissimus’s requirements is the question of events and safety. Fortissimus has been forthright in explaining something of the nature of its events and perfectly concrete about when the details would be announced, and as all World’s Strongest Man fans know, that contest’s tradition is to announce the events with much less lead time than Fortissimus is promising. IFSA (under its current management), with a much shorter history and a reliance on its standardized events and equipment, isn’t really in a comparable position, and this might be why - interestingly enough - all the gripes about Fortissimus’s events are coming from the IFSA side . . . and none from the WSM side. Strongman - unlike weightlifting or powerlifting - is supposed to have some novel events, and the tradition is that there should be some element of surprise and that the organizer should be able to leave his or her imprint on the mix of events, so IronMind would vote for IFSA to say, “Hey, we’re not afraid of the unknown. Our guys are so good, you can line up any ten events you want, and if they test strength, our guys will win them.” IronMind would like that.

Maybe IFSA didn’t like being given a deadline, and maybe they resent a new kid on the block - Paul Ohl - working to put together what he sees as a humdinger of a contest. And for whatever rotten things one might want to say about IFSA, the old guard there has more hands-on strongman experience in their little fingers than most pie-in-sky newbies could ever dream of achieving, so it’s natural that the IFSA guys might bristle a bit if someone they see as untested waltzes in and basically says, “I’m going to put together the best strongman contest of all time,” especially if he adds something like, “. . . but I’m not going to tell you all the details yet and because I’m paying the piper, I’m calling the tune.” Interestingly, this sensitivity seems to be somewhat shared by the other side of the Great Divide in Strongman, even if that group is less vocal about expressing it. Nonetheless, one solution here is to embrace the idea that this contest could be all about the athletes, so let your people go ahead and have at it in the events and let the results speak for themselves. IronMind would like that.

Event testing and safety have been raised by IFSA as a reason for holding back on Fortissimus and while both are vital and legitimate concerns, they appear to something of a red herring here, as it seems implausible that inadequate event and equipment reviews would take place in the cradle of strongman. Let’s not forget that even if he’s not listed in the field, this is the neighborhood of Hugo Girard, and anyone who has been to a Hugo Girard strongman contest can attest to his ability to develop mind boggling strongman equipment, off the scale compared to any other, and if Hugo Girard, for example, were to give his imprimatur, the events and equipment would certainly be of the highest order. IronMind would like that.

IronMind’s friend Bruce Wilhelm doesn’t sugarcoat things and he scoffs at what he sees as underpowered aspiring strongmen busily slathering their arms with tacky and focusing on lifting some concrete ball or another, instead of hitting the weights and getting stronger. “When you’re strong, you’re strong,” says the Big B and that’s how he won the first two World’s Strongest Man contests . . . not by strapping a refrigerator on his back and running up and down his back yard with it. So in that spirit, let the IFSA guys join the party - they’ve already predicted a podium sweep, so here is their chance to make good on their call. If they’re strong, they’re strong. IronMind would like to see this.

Zydrunas Savickas, Vasyl Virastyuk and Mikhail Koklaev are not merely top IFSA strongmen, they are guys you would like to see in any world class strongman contest. Thus, it was tremendous when it appeared they were headed to Fortissimus . . . was this the showdown that IFSA has been calling for on its home page? And IFSA - apparently flush with neither cash nor sponsors waiting in the wings, an organization whose stock value is measured in pennies per share - has a tremendous public relations opportunity . . . what if they really did sweep the podium? So, check the egos at the door, line up for the contest, blow the whistle and let’s see who really can produce. IronMind would like that.

[Alex Klotz]

Well I hope they change their mind.

[Corey DuCharme]

He really summed it all up. Now if only everybody saw it that way.

[Zach Snyder]

if ifsa is concerned about safety, why not release the events to them and SS, and place the burden on them? Chances are that they are not going to have events where the injury potential is any higher than any other strongman event. It will look bad for ifsa then if they back out of a show with the events not having a high risk factor in them.

The whole situation with this is scaring more and more fans away from this show that had a lot of potential. i don't think ironmind is doing a good job with publishing private e-mails from one person to another. This whole thing will probably end up doing more harm than good to the sport.

i think a lot of us all knew that it was too good to be true.

[Lucjan Zolnierowski]

:IMHO: :disgust: :disgust: :disgust:

[Garrick Daft]

This is kind of being seen as a make or break moment for IFSA from what I understand..

[Matt Brouse]

Some good points and some not-so-good. The sport has evolved and therefore we train events specifically. Having a gripe with that is like saying that baseball players or football players should lift weight, they should just put on the helmet and start running into guys.

I do like, however, the frequent use of "Ironmind" in the third person. Brouse likes that.

Mongo like candy.

Also, I find it very difficult to be a fan of any sport. Too much BS going on all the time. Screw it, I'm just gonna train and compete. Forget all this nonsense.

[Matt Schumann]

what do you mean by that Garrick?



This is kind of being seen as a make or break moment for IFSA from what I understand..

[RyanWilson]

Didn't the people running this comp hold something pretty unique a few years back with some interesting events such as the back lift? I think I recall some pics in MILO of the comp and how it was raved about that the equipment was top-notch. If these are the same folks, then there's no real gripe about the quality of safety or whatever BS excuse is being bandied about. There's just more lame politics involved that are ruining the chance for at least onre more fantastic blowout where top strongmen can unify and battle it out with something different and for a nice purse. But alas, IFSA screws the pooch and already starts to ruin this long before it comes about.

I always tried to remain pretty impartial regarding IFSA and all their wacky decisions about doing crap their way. Heck, until now I was strongly contemplating spending $1k on buying a crapload of their stock (not worth squat, but but it'd be fun to say I had it :D ) since they went public just so I could show my support in a different way. I always gave them the benefit of the doubt when people would slam them for all their political crap - I knew that they had a lot of bad-arse guys on their roster and I figured that it wasn't the athletes' fault that things were goofy and I wanted to be fair and just assume that Dougie was having his period or something of that sort. You know what? Screw it now. No stock purchase, no buying IFSA DVDs when I hear about them, no support to the organization other than cheering from the sidelines for the guys I like (which is pretty well everyone). I'm sorry for those that compete in IFSA and have contracts and all that jazz, but the athletes need to form a union or something and get Dougie to make some changes in the right direction or work to put IFSA under for being so damned stubborn about doing things "their way". The bag needs to be shaken, and there either needs to be unity, a new direction for IFSA, or they need to be scrapped and do something that's by the athletes, for the athletes. Most pros aren't making a killer living off the sport - when Dougie is willing to pay out the purse money for comps he won't let his boys enter, then he can keep them all to himself, but if I was an IFSA-signed guy, I'd be mad as hell for letting a dictator tell me that I can't enter what looks to be the most fun event in quite some time that also has the ability to PAY SOME GOOD CASH.

Someday it's all going to come crashing down if things don't change. You can't keep a regime running like that and expect that your star athletes are going to sit by staying loyal while others get the chance for more exposure and better opportunities to pay the bills. Only time will tell how soon that'll happen, but one thing's for sure, IFA ain't in my good graces these days - this crap with the excuses is just plain stupid.

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

Honestly I dont like Ironminds attitude here.
In the last few month or so Ironmind has posted alot of stuff I do not agree with, or what I think is not "ok".
Right here they posted two "privat" letters. OK, in my opinion this is more then just worthless.How many letters have been send before? Were they posted, too? No. Here we see two letters and we have no idea of the previous history that led to THIS letters. So for me this was no good act.
And Ironminds response: "IronMind on Fortissimus: Here’s What We Think".
I know we have free speech, but as far as I understand this whole thing, they put the IFSA Management as the bad guys, who have fear to show up, who are not willing to cooperate, and who are running out of money.
Ironmind has posted a few comments about IFSA in the past I found very harsh......
Is this really the way we need to go?
This is no good promotion at all. Ironmind has a great influence in the strongmanworld and I wish that they would use this potential for good things.
They could act as a ?intermediator? between IFSA and Paul Oh. Instead of posting their personal opinion on the internet they could call IFSA and Paul Oh, find the problem, discuss solutions and maybe find a way to make this whole ting possible!

Maybe I'm wrong with this whole post but presenting this whole IFSA, Paul Oh discussion on the Internet just cant be good for the sport.

[Matt Makousky]

To each there own. IMO if you don't like it or agree with it, don't do it!!! If it is your job and you don't like it, don't do it!!! Why do people stay with jobs they don't like, who knows!!!! (comfort, stability, no where else to go) There will always be politics.

In the great words of someone

"Shut up and lift"

:YR:


M2

[Paul_Koskinen]

Why do people stay with jobs they don't like, who knows!!!!

Spoken like a true hero of the working class. :T:

[Tony Christopher]

Maybe I'm wrong with this whole post but presenting this whole IFSA, Paul Oh discussion on the Internet just cant be good for the sport.

Tobias,

Respectfully, what's "not good for the sport" here is IFSA (primarily, WSMSS to a lesser extent) treating the sport like a business and treating the athletes like "human resources" (i.e. devices for making money).

I don't know whether Ironmind had premission from the parties to post those letters ... presumably they must have had permission from at least one party or else they wouldn't have the letters in their possession, but to me that's largely besides the point.

When folks who run sports start insisting that things get done "their way" for business reasons, and start insisting that athletes do things "their way" outside the contests they're running, that's inherantly bad for the sport.

Sadly, this seems to be the way of the world these days, everywhere ... not just in strength athletics. If a given athlete who is affiliated with a certain organization, or sponsored by a particular company, tries to compete in a venue not sanctioned by that corporation or organization, he or she gets punished. While this makes perfect business sense (e.g.. I completely understand from a BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE why Inzer went ape $hit a few years ago over their sponsored athletes competing in NERB) it is horrible from a SPORTING PERSPECTIVE.

Essentially it says that "It's not really important who wins or loses, or who proves himself/herself to be the best, what's really important is that we make money off putting on the best possible show". This reduces "sport" to the level of professional wrestling (i.e. "sports entertainment").

Of course companies / organizations try to pass their concerns off as something else, typically athlete safety (e.g. We don't want our athletes competing out of gear beacause gear enhances safety, or we don't want them tempted to use dangerous drugs in a non-drug tested contest, or we don't want them hurting themselves on untested, unsanctioned equipment) but anyone who's thinking and honest with themselves should easily be able to see past this smokescreen (like the FDA is concerned with cheap drug imports from Canada because there's no assurance that the Canadian drug supply is AS SAFE as the US drug supply ... yeah right, nudge nudge, wink wink, it's a safety issue ...)

Now perhaps I'm naive ... perhaps the business model is a "necessary evil" these days. Perhaps sports can't succeed without this "necessary evil". But let's make no mistake, in terms of the "sporting" aspect, it's most certainly ... evil.

[Kevin Cronin]

I dont know that I agree with that Tony. Sure, there are some cons to having sports run as a business - the ncaa dragging its feet over a +1 game for the college football title, malcom glazer getting a mjority share of man u - but oveall, i think that sports are played at a higher level when the athletes can derive 100% of their income from them. the nfl of today fields temas that are way more competitive that just a few decades ago. sure, theres some kind of blue-collar appeal to guys who play the game purely for love, but sports is the only arena where ämateur"is seen as a positive. Would you want your boss to describe your work as "ämateurish?" Would you hire an amateur builder to add a deck to your house?