Bodybuilding Question

[MarshallWhite]

So I was watching some vids the other day of BB'ers squatting (Victor Martinez, Branch Warren,etc) and I couldn't believe how horrible their form was! They were handling pretty heavy weights but only going 3/4 of the way down. The question is......How are they so massive?!?!?!?! How is it possible to build that level of muscularity with half reps? Discuss.

[Ian Duggan]

Body builders are a funny bunch aren't they?

Some of the huge guys you see training and they could well be powerlifters or strongmen. Good form, good depth, moving a lot of weight. Justin Harris comes to mind, he seems fairly strong.

Other guys, who are equally big, work out like your average gym monkey. Half reps, cheating curls, obsessed with leg presses, doing 1000 different exercises for one body part... but they still end up huge.

I would guess it has a lot to do with genetics, work rate and... [ahem]... That Which Must Not Be Mentioned.

But really... no idea.

Might have a to to do with where they started out. Guys that come from a powerlifting / sports background might have a more compound, basic approach to it. Whilst those without such a background would be much more interested in isolation stuff.

But like I said... no idea.

Insightful eh?

[Jake Peeterse]

I would guess that most of them don't rely solely on squatting for thier leg development. They use about 10 different exercises to hit all the mucles and there by develope the entire leg. I think most of them just squat because they think they have to. Just my 2 cents.

[Jay Hagadorn]

I would guess it has a lot to do with genetics, work rate and... [ahem]... That Which Must Not Be Mentioned.


So, let's see how far this thread can go without having it disappear LOL. Let's not mention "That Which Must Not Be Mentioned" in this thread...

On a serious note, I would say it has to do with rep range and trianing focus.

[Ian Duggan]

Let's not mention "That Which Must Not Be Mentioned" in this thread...
Gotcha. I shall not mention "That Which Must Not Be Mentioned" again.

After this post. Obviously.

Ahem.

[LanceMoore]

The main factors are most likely workload and time. Because they only do partial reps, they are able to use more weight, therefore recruiting a greater number of muscle fibers than they would while lifting a lighter weight for full-range reps. The second factor, time, involves the fact that the majority of larger bodybuilders have been doing these partial rep programs for years, if not decades, which provides plenty of time to see noticeable growth, regardless of how effective the program is.

[Mike Landrich]

3/4 squats keep the tension on the quads. Going deeper begins to get more glute/hamstring/hip recruitment, defeating the BB'er mentality of working just one muscle group at a time.

[Matt Brouse]

We're getting the right idea. The TUT is the key with those guys. They don't stop moving and they don't lock out. If you consider going to parallel a "full squat" then they use about half ROM.

Anyway, the squat is just a peice of the puzzle for those guys. Except for Kevin Levrone (or is it Melvin Anthony) because he doesn't squat for the most part...

Put it in the context of strongman. It ain't pretty but it strong. Sometimes doing it in a pristine (sp?) matter just ain't your best bet.

[James Fernandes]

when i wasnt squatting at all, and just doing deep leg presses, leg extension, leg curls, sldl, my legs were probably bigger then than now, as all i do for legs is just squat with low reps, and do sldl

legs respond to high reps, 3/4 squats is still pretty deep and works the quads well, a bb doesnt want a big ass, is what ive been told by a pro bb, and hence why they dont go below paralel.

even ronnie coleman doesnt go below paralel but he stil goes deep,

i think some bb do go below paralel like that russian bb alexander federov, whom i saw a vid of him squatting just 120kg for reps, but was using baby weight

even tom platz on youtube, did 500lb for 23 reps and all reps well below parallel, so everyones different i guess, maybe he was genetically gifted and could squat deep without a big ass

[James Whisman]

The top 1/2 of a squat is predominatly quad, the bottom 1/2 is hams and glutes. Usually squats (for BBers) is on quad day, and DL (RDL) is on ham day.

Remember BBing is about the appearence of being strong (big muscles) not actually being strong. I have read more then once where a top level BBer has said they would use a 20# DB if they could get the same as 100# DB.

[Matthew White]

Well, I'd taked an educated guess to high rep range and high volume pushing more blood into the muscles causing more inflation and therefore more size and seperation of the muscles. As well as years and years of specifically growing muscle. And to top it all off, I saw Branch Warren at Metroflex in Arlington, TX once, well, lets say my little buddy who is 5'7" was quite a bit taller than Mr. Warren, I don't know what other people say his stats are, but I'd aim for 5'5". However, yeah, he was very beastly and handles some big weight like a champ.

[Kevin Cronin]

I think most people's assessment is generally the same, and I think I agree with it, but let me phrase it a different way. Most of our feeling about half squats being "wrong" comes froma functional perspective - it doesnt incorporate the low back, theres more stress on the patella, leg presses are a closed chain movement, etc - whereas bodybuilders arent concerned with the functionality of it (provided the stress on their patella isnt so great that they cant workout.) But they are - the good ones any way - intense and consistent, two things that the average gym goer doing quarter squats is not. I remember when I was in high school I squatted 495 for a triple - how was I supposed to know that my form was horrible and I was nowhere near a parallel? - but honestly, just unlocking the knees, going down a bit and then going up is going to put a lot of work on the medialis, so my tear drops were hanging over my knees. Haha, man, and I htought I was good... :rolleyes:

[brian kling]

lol, my teardrops hang over my legs as well but i am very lucky to have had a power lifter teach me how to correctly do deadlifts and squats when me and my friend first started training and have the rest of my legs balance it out.

[Mike Landrich]

i am very lucky to have had a power lifter teach me how to correctly do deadlifts and squats .


If you were into BBing instead of SM, you would be doing them incorrectly. Remember, we do partials also, like 800 to 900 lb 1/4 squats to work on yoke pick-up. Sport specificity is the nature of the game.

[MarshallWhite]

I see what everyone is saying as far as the partials go....but again wouldn't a muscle be more THOROUGHLY worked with a full range of motion? Seems as though on half working the muscle would lead to only half development?

[Mike Landrich]

I see what everyone is saying as far as the partials go....but again wouldn't a muscle be more THOROUGHLY worked with a full range of motion? Seems as though on half working the muscle would lead to only half development?

They are working the muscle through a full range of motion, as they define it; full range without recruiting other muscle groups. Bodybuilding is about the "pump" and keeping the muscles under tension. Do a workout of 3-4 sets (8-12 reps each) of bodybuilder style partials for 5 exercises for just one bodypart. Despite the high level of development you have already, you will feel a burning pump during the workout and extreme soreness the next day. What they train for is achieved, a pump, torn down muscles and the resultant muscle hypertrophy when it heals.

Marshall, I have a question that will answer your question (yeah I know you shouldn't answer a question with a question, but I will anyway). Do your QUADS feel sorer after a heavy set of parallel squats with a heavier weight or a set of ATG squats with a lighter weight? For me, at least, the hips take the brunt of ATG squats, followed by hams and then glutes.

[Jay Hagadorn]

I see what everyone is saying as far as the partials go....but again wouldn't a muscle be more THOROUGHLY worked with a full range of motion? Seems as though on half working the muscle would lead to only half development?

No. My legs were at the biggest point when I used to bodybuild, doing partial squats and half squats. That doesn't mean they were at their overall strongest point...

[James Fernandes]

does anyone feel doing solid half squats-3/4 squats help increase your parallel squat? as you get the feel of heavy weight?

[Jon Lane]

M,

As a former competitve bodybuilder turned strongman I can tell you that the difference is vast. We, training for strongman events utilize the functionality of the muscles and leverage of the body to perform our lifts and create momentum (i.e. yoke and farmers).

Most bodybuilders, (I say most because not all are this way) only go for the PUMP. By not completing a full range of motion it allows the muscle group to remain under constant tension thus providing a more massive blood flow...the pump. Because we train specifically for strength the majority of the time, full rep ranges and higher weights generally prevent us from doing 7 or 8 different exercises for one bodypart. I know that when we train out at Sarge's place, my entire body hurts afterward, unlike when I was getting in shape for a bodybuilding show, only hitting 1 bodypart per day.

I do see a lot of upper tier bodybuilding pros incorporating more strongman style lifts in their workouts though.

[AaRoNSnider]

A couple years ago,after training alot with a friend who is a bodybuilder,I started to notice that alot of powerlifters and strongmen would be moving big weights in their regular training,but in contest fashion,and they never take the time to do what someone like a bodybuilder would look at as a quality set.........:hitting the muscle hard,and only using the muscle,without relying on stretch reflexes,long pauses at lockout between reps,and bouncing to help to move the weight.Like my friend would tell me "remember that this isnt a contest,this is training"

Ive seen alot of bashing of the way alot of bodybuilders train,yet the people I know who are bodybuilders,who have always trained in the gym with short,choppy looking reps,have been able to do the same lifts,with powerlifting standards,and still put up pretty big numbers.My friend would stop just above the chest when benching,and just before lockout,and would train with 225-405 in that manner.He did a bench contest at the spur of the moment,and did over 500 raw,and with pl rules.

Ive also been told that alot of what you see in the bodybuilding videos,isnt how they always train,but even if it was,its obviously working lol.

[Jared Enderton]

from what I understand they do half reps and such just like w hat most people have said. to keep the pressure on the muscle targeted. locking out puts pressure on the joints and takes it off the muscle. i have done this a few times and I have to admit I am much more tired when I do not lock out. (on things like bench and stuff).

[Callie Marunde]

Dont forget that age (years lifting) is a factor.

Alot of bodybuilers have spent many years training.

big muscles does not always mean strong muscles.

The quads will respond to stress, even if it is 3/4 the way down. hence the hypertrophy seen with this method. We could all squat more weight if we didnt have to go all the way down. We would never become overall stronger if we didnt go through the full range of motion.

No one cares how big your quads are, but everyone around here cares how big your squat is. :)

Callie

[Matt Middendorf]

I train with a local bodybuilder and the thing he stresses the most is hitting parallel when you squat...so its not all bodybuilders

[MarshallWhite]

Dont forget that age (years lifting) is a factor.

Alot of bodybuilers have spent many years training.

big muscles does not always mean strong muscles.

The quads will respond to stress, even if it is 3/4 the way down. hence the hypertrophy seen with this method. We could all squat more weight if we didnt have to go all the way down. We would never become overall stronger if we didnt go through the full range of motion.

No one cares how big your quads are, but everyone around here cares how big your squat is. :)

Callie
Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:

[Easton Taylor]

Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:


M,

Just look are Mariusz........he could easily win a bodybuilding contest.......

[Mike Landrich]

Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:



Just look are Mariusz........he could easily win a bodybuilding contest.......

But, did they develop the physiques while training Strongman or did they bodybuild and then come over to Strongman, and keep the physique?

[Wayne Lam]

3/4 squats keep the tension on the quads. Going deeper begins to get more glute/hamstring/hip recruitment, defeating the BB'er mentality of working just one muscle group at a time.

victor martinez said had tons of knee problems. Recently, he tore his knee tendon doing a bodyweight lunge warming up.

Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:

i think it's only a matter of bodyfat percentage. Yea, Jon Anderson is a great example. Also there is a difference in muscular detail where a bodybuilder will pay more attention to keeping their physiques balanced versus a strongman who could care less if his inner quad is bigger than his outer quad as long as he keeps getting stronger.

here's a pic with me, jon anderson, and chris grantano @ my first contest.

[Brandon Campbell]

Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:


yes, it is very possible marshall it would require more cardio or medley training and some sort of bodybuilder style workout once a week. Eating good will help keep Body fat down, and keeping the proportions right will help keep the look.

Its not how ya train, muscles dont care. Its the amount of fat you have around hte muscles that matter. :LOL:

To our quads, a squat is the same as a lunge, yoke, farmers, tire flip. All it knows is It has to Contract. :D

[WesleyInman]

Remember BBing is about the appearence of being strong (big muscles) not actually being strong. I have read more then once where a top level BBer has said they would use a 20# DB if they could get the same as 100# DB.


This is a common misconception...It has more to deal with genetics, and many bodybuilders, myself included train very heavy even at low bodyfats. My last NPC comp I was running 185 @3% bodyfat and training with reps of 6 or lower and still benching 335x6 reps or so...Seated Military Presses with 275lbs, I trained with several guys who were trying to go pro and everyone of them was ridiculously strong...In off season a bodybuilder might weigh 240 and drop to 185 at 3% bodyfat and trust me, they are very very strong pound for pound.



Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:

I think it is Marshall, with my limited SM experience I am finding immediate gains in mass and size..Then to obtain or maintain the definition you of course have to diet, and will lose some strength and size, it is possible, this is what I am doing right now also, though low bodyfat certainly equals zero energy for endurance...


Someone like Mariusk wouldn't do well in a bodybuilding contest at his current WSM weight and bodyfat, since the sport although about size---the key is vascularity WITH SIZE .He carried too much fat, This is NOT TO SAY though if he dropped a good solid 40-50 pounds correctly he very well could tear apart many competitiors in his weight class. I think proportinately speaking Darren Sadler was closest to being in Bodybuilders shape of all the WSM competitors I have seen to date.

Marshall you did look bigger and more cut this year just so you know, great improvement, which brings up a very important piece of bodybuilding everyone should know, perception is everything...Drop down to 5% at 250 pounds and you will appear to be 300+...Whereas 250@10-15% might look big and stocky, lower bodyfat will make you appear all the bigger.

Another trick, darken your skin, tanning, and shave your head...This all makes you look bigger on stage, trust me I need every trick in the book to appear bigger LOL :)

Partial Reps for me help my CNS to handle more weight for full reps eventually, quicker than normal building of strength would and my body adapts and makes strength gains this way, this is a common belief amongts DC method bodybuilders and it truly works. I think this works for some and not for others??

[TEXAS STONEMAN]

So I was watching some vids the other day of BB'ers squatting (Victor Martinez, Branch Warren,etc) and I couldn't believe how horrible their form was! They were handling pretty heavy weights but only going 3/4 of the way down. The question is......How are they so massive?!?!?!?! How is it possible to build that level of muscularity with half reps? Discuss.
You have to remember when we started training together all those years ago and I was doing the same thing. It was what I always read to do in Flex and other such magazines. To understand why they still get huge you have to think about what actually triggers the resulting adaptative and anabolic responses by the body. Like what was mentioned earlier in this thread the main goal for a BB'er doing squats is quad development not strength. You don't have to go below parallel to stimulate the quads to grow.
On an anatomical level there are two theories on why muscles get bigger: the first is that the fiber splits a little and the body repairs this damage by filling in the resulting space. The other is that the fiber splits completely (length-wise) into 2 new fibers which then grow to the genetically predetermined diameter. Which ever one is the case (or most likely a little of both) heavy weights will cause tissue damage and thus the healing response by the body.

[TEXAS STONEMAN]

Follow up question then: Is it possible to obtain a BB'er physique whilst training SM style? ( I guess so....Look at Jon Andersen) If so how can this be obtained? Is it diet? Certain exercises?
I know everyone here is going to think I am vain for asking these questions but it really is just for info purposes...and cause I want to look huge!!! :LOL:
Probably not by doing what we currently call Strongman training specifically. Jon does a lot of bodybuilder type work... as does Mariusz hence the similar physiques. However, he is still a badass Strongman because he trains the events every week.
I must also note that Jon's diet is pretty strict and based on low carb intake.

[Jim Glassman]

Probably not by doing what we currently call Strongman training specifically. Jon does a lot of bodybuilder type work... as does Mariusz hence the similar physiques. However, he is still a badass Strongman because he trains the events every week.
I must also note that Jon's diet is pretty strict and based on low carb intake.

Nice to know if I make the switch to bodybuilding I can still come here for training advice!

[BradyJones]

Someone like Mariusk wouldn't do well in a bodybuilding contest at his current WSM weight and bodyfat, since the sport although about size---the key is vascularity WITH SIZE .He carried too much fat, This is NOT TO SAY though if he dropped a good solid 40-50 pounds

More like 20-30 lbs, Mariusz could step on stage at at 285-295 at about 5%. He has lower bf year round than most bb'ers do in the off season. I'd guess about 8-10% year round.

[BradyJones]

Nice to know if I make the switch to bodybuilding I can still come here for training advice!

DONT DO IT JIM!!!!! IF YOU NEED COUNSELING WE CAN FIND YOU HELP!!! PLEASE!!!

[MarshallWhite]

Probably not by doing what we currently call Strongman training specifically. Jon does a lot of bodybuilder type work... as does Mariusz hence the similar physiques. However, he is still a badass Strongman because he trains the events every week.
I must also note that Jon's diet is pretty strict and based on low carb intake.
That's my point!!!!!!!!!! Jon and M are both bad-asses so it is totally possible...so why not do the BB'er type of work? It seems (at least for me) to be easier on the joints and it creates the "image" of strong as well which would help in the sponsorship/notability area, if BB'ing movements supplemented with heavy PL work and SM impelement work will create a great strength athlete AS WELL as a visual freak show.....why not? Did I just talk myself into BB'ing? Hahahahahahaha! Thanks for all the comments and info guys this is a topic my wife and I discuss all the time it's good to hear some very educated info and differing opinions on it. Keep it coming!!!!!!!!!

[MarshallWhite]

Nice to know if I make the switch to bodybuilding I can still come here for training advice!
Look out Cutler! Glassman's about to hit the stage!!! Do they have a Rhino class? :D

[Brandon Campbell]

That's my point!!!!!!!!!! Jon and M are both bad-asses so it is totally possible...so why not do the BB'er type of work? It seems (at least for me) to be easier on the joints and it creates the "image" of strong as well which would help in the sponsorship/notability area, if BB'ing movements supplemented with heavy PL work and SM impelement work will create a great strength athlete AS WELL as a visual freak show.....why not? Did I just talk myself into BB'ing? Hahahahahahaha! Thanks for all the comments and info guys this is a topic my wife and I discuss all the time it's good to hear some very educated info and differing opinions on it. Keep it coming!!!!!!!!!


Im not where you are strength wise marshall but I do about 2 bodybuilder type days a week, three days I do powerlifting/oly style and weekends events. I seen very great gains doing this and have a very much improved physique. Everything is getting big and strong and looking good.

Also have noticed a increase in recovery time, increase in mass (helps move more weight), and less joint pain (most of the time)

Its a great way to train i say give it a try, if anything it will be different and different will bring gains.

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

HaHa, great to see that I´m not the only one with this problem.......
My goal woul be 260lb with 8% Fat. Right now I´m at 240 with 20% :LOL:

I have no idea where to start and what to do.... I want to compete in some Strongman comps this year and get overall stronger to get real serious in strongman.
So one year only BB Training is no solution, but loosing all this fat and gaining so much muscle seems nearly impossible to me with heavy SM training only......

I have a bad back and hip and carrying arround all this unnecessary fat is just not good for rehab and getting this problem fixed.

I really think I need help! :D

[WesleyInman]

Theres a book out there called "Nutrient Timing System" which would be great for all novices in bodybuilding...I will try and dig it up for this site, that would help a few of you looking to define your physiques...


And Tobias, just so you know, if you are 240 at 20% that means you are carrying 48 pounds of fat and the rest of you is bone muscle water, etc...so you have 192 pounds to work with...

To get to 260@ say 10% you would have 26 pounds of fat and 234 pounds to work with...so figure you would need to drop a solid 22 pounds of fat while gaining a solid 40 pounds of muscle...You have your work cut out for you, but this is very possible...

OTC supplements, diet and cardio and proper training will help you acheive this...Eat smaller meals more often and initially don't be frustrated with strength losses, because as you gain the lean muscle you will be stronger and look better than ever :)

[Kevin Cronin]

That's my point!!!!!!!!!! Jon and M are both bad-asses so it is totally possible...so why not do the BB'er type of work? It seems (at least for me) to be easier on the joints and it creates the "image" of strong as well which would help in the sponsorship/notability area, if BB'ing movements supplemented with heavy PL work and SM impelement work will create a great strength athlete AS WELL as a visual freak show.
This may be jsut me, but personally, when I focus on bodybuilder movements, I get strong (relatively speaking) but only AT THOSE MOVEMENTS. If I want to get strong at stones, I have to do stones. Back extensions and leg curls dont help my deadlift, deadlifting does. I aint getting my log to 300 with front raises and kickbacks - even a straight bar is, to me, so different from the log that I think it would be useless - or certainly nowhere near as efficient to use as the log itself would be.

[Tobias Schnellbächer]

Thanks wesley.
...but this is very possible...
I know it`s possible but it will take alot of time...
I already eat a lot of small meals during the day but I will look for the book, sounds very good.
I maybe try what Brandon said, too. So adding two BB Type workouts each week.
Brandon how do you structure these workouts? Do you have any good articles of mixing Powerlifting/Strongman type of training with BB training?

Thanks,
Tobi

[christopher smith]

So I was watching some vids the other day of BB'ers squatting (Victor Martinez, Branch Warren,etc) and I couldn't believe how horrible their form was! They were handling pretty heavy weights but only going 3/4 of the way down. The question is......How are they so massive?!?!?!?! How is it possible to build that level of muscularity with half reps? Discuss.
M-dub, I believe it has to do with the number of reps and sets they are doing. They are still stimulating there muscle fibers and getting a chemical release into their muscle fibers. Im not an expert in the field but its really about the number of reps and sets they are doing. I agree with you they are big but Id like to see them compete in a strongman competition. I would not recommend this for you, you would be cheating your muscles when you need to get full extension for competitions. Screw how massive they look unless you want to shift gears in your goals. M-dub you are al

[Nikhil Rao]

Body builders are a funny bunch aren't they?

Some of the huge guys you see training and they could well be powerlifters or strongmen. Good form, good depth, moving a lot of weight. Justin Harris comes to mind, he seems fairly strong.

Other guys, who are equally big, work out like your average gym monkey. Half reps, cheating curls, obsessed with leg presses, doing 1000 different exercises for one body part... but they still end up huge.

I would guess it has a lot to do with genetics, work rate and... [ahem]... That Which Must Not Be Mentioned.

But really... no idea.

Might have a to to do with where they started out. Guys that come from a powerlifting / sports background might have a more compound, basic approach to it. Whilst those without such a background would be much more interested in isolation stuff.

But like I said... no idea.

Insightful eh?

Justin Harris grabbed an elite total at his first ever PLing meet. Total beast.

The answer to why some have awful form vs those with good form is simple: myofibrillar vs sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

http://www.strengthcats.com/JDallmusclesnotequal.htm

I thought I'd seen a better article on t-nation with pictures but I can't find it. I went from 200 to 170 without losing an ounce of strength and staying about as toned back when I was trying to get in a lower weight thingy for boxing cuz of how much of my muscle was sarcoplasmic and how much was myofibrillar. Kinda shocking. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is also responsible for the fuller muscles you get a week into creatine supplementation.

[Scott Markowitz]

Is it just me, or did anyone else see that and all they could read was waa wa wa wa wahhh?

[Kevin Cronin]

It's just you.

Myofibrillar hypertrophy = growth of the actual contractile tissue

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy = growth of all the other crap in a muscle (which happens to be a lot) ie water retention, I believe glycogen storage, etc etc

[Brandon Campbell]

Thanks wesley.

I know it`s possible but it will take alot of time...
I already eat a lot of small meals during the day but I will look for the book, sounds very good.
I maybe try what Brandon said, too. So adding two BB Type workouts each week.
Brandon how do you structure these workouts? Do you have any good articles of mixing Powerlifting/Strongman type of training with BB training?

Thanks,
Tobi


No articles that i Can find.

On the Powerlifting/oly days I pick a Oly lift to start with, do doubles up to 80% then I do squat or Deadlift, follwed by a overhead press either log or barbell/axle followed by glute hams or reverse hyper. This happens Mon/wed. On the BB'er days, on tuesday back/biceps and shoulder assistance and i do high rep high sets and many different lifts to target each muscle. Gets me a good pump! then on thursday I alternate each week with a rest day or a Leg BB'er day using all the silly machines to hit my legs. Friday I do my benching, incline bench, strict overhead/jerk, and tricep work followed with some light leg work if thursday was a rest day. Then events on weekends

basically all but two days a week I am doing full body. At first ya get tired easy but after awhile you start to build up some great recovery and can do more.

[Matt Middendorf]

I have been lifting bb style twice a week and power lifting four times a week(for football) for two years now. The bb works helped a lot with my mass gains and strength. I'm not lean but i think the bb style does help your shape somewhat, along with diet.

[Michal Širůčka]

I would like to refresh this topic...

As I am starting my strongman routine (well, Im just starting for two years in a row, lol) I asked local strongman (one of elite competitors in our counry) how to train and gain some weight and he told me to do something like bodybuilding for several months! I was kinda disapointed but after reading this thread Im more willing to believe it.

He told me I too much relly on legdrive, muscle strech and all kind of cheating when i do my upper body workouts. This seems to make sense, I can easily throw 120lbs dumbbel for reps overhead but Im totaly lacking strict overhead pressing strength and hardly can do a set of reps with 80´dumbbels and the same is my triceps and pecs. After 1 or 2 strict sets of any exercise, my muscles totally turn off and I cant anymore do the same reps or weight, even if I didnt do my prevois sets to failure. Of course, there is a fact in game I didnt do any conditioning for quite a long time, but this cant be the only reason my lifts sucks without some kind of cheating and my bench is the same for years.
He told me this could be a reason why I cant gain more weight. He said that sets of 3-5reps are good, but what need to do now is reduce this kind of work and throw in much work of strict pressing, like doing 3 heavy sets of pushpress and than 8-10 sets of strict standing DB military press, relying on slow reps, pause at the bottom and not using muscle stretch! Also doing more assistance exercises like front raises, flies and so to make some decent training volume.
The only things that makes me happy is that He told me my lower body workouts seems to be ok, maybe except I should do sometimes more reps, like 8x8 squat or so :mag:

I will give a chance this kind of workout and will give a report after 2-3 months how the things are going

[Matthew White]

Michal, it never hurts to add some more muscle on your frame to be able to work with. I'd say doing a short 6 to 8 week bodybuilding cycle once a year after your biggest competition of the year would probably be smart to be able to build a base for your next year. Just an idea.