Some of the top ams have a shot at competing in ASM?

[Matt Schumann]

http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/morenewsv6.php?id=2376#2376

For $250 bucks, anyone can enter this contest, if you come with in the top 10 in a prelim you can compete in ASM....

[Jared Enderton]

wow, that is a lot bigger than I expected. should be an awesome contest.

[Ryan Wells]

............................

[Kevin Cronin]

matt, you sound surprised. This has already been discussed - http://www.marunde-muscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10624

and as for whether this is ASM
http://www.marunde-muscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=182483#post182483

This is really weird about the whole 'drug-tested' part. Like I said in another post, I specifically asked Phil if it was drug-tested and his response was "no, it'll be open." I guess they could've changed their minds, but when this was announced it was drug-tested. So did they change their minds and then change them back? :confused:

[Ryan Brown]

This is really weird about the whole 'drug-tested' part. Like I said in another post, I specifically asked Phil if it was drug-tested and his response was "no, it'll be open." I guess they could've changed their minds, but when this was announced it was drug-tested. So did they change their minds and then change them back? :confused:

that is a bit odd if he specifically told you it was not going to be tested. I know originally his plan was to do it tested. Maybe he wanted to do it, but thought it may not be feasible--then later found a way to make it happen. I know the logistics and cost of drug testing everyone is a good amount to figure out. It looks like now each entry will pay for the drug testing I guess with the $250 entry fee.

[Justin Blake]

what i find odd is someone is trying to have the Americas Strongest Man contest two weeks after the actual Americas Strongest Man contest June 21-22 in San Diego. Am i missing something here?

http://www.americanstrongman.com/competitions/schedule.asp

[Tom Mutaffis]

That is probably a strategy to show that they are a competing federation and not trying to complement the others... having the contests so close together will force athletes to pick one.

Might not be a good idea since most great competitors will be attending the real America's Strongest Man and whoever wins this contest will not have true claim to fame.

[AndrewPalmer]

Unless I am misreading, it looks like they will test everyone, and anyone can compete, but you are only eligible for prize money if you pass the drug test. If thats right, then it could explain some of the confusion. Seems strange though, and I'm probably misreading it.

I think its a bad idea to use the same name, especially so close to ASC nationals but isn't this closer to the way things are done internationally? I mean the lack of a pro/am split but using qualifiers. Long term I think thats the way things need to head, puts things more in line with other international sports, at least as I understand them.

[Garrick Daft]

Madison Square Garden is the same weekend as ASC Nats (America's Strongest Man) also. That throws another wrench into the whole decision making process for some also.
Phil's ASM qualifies you for WSM also, and I am assuming ASC's ASM Qualifies you for IFSA World's.
All in all, I hope everything works out for the best. Good luck to everyone.

Purists will agree, Derek Poundstone is the current ASM, so whoever wants to lay claim to the ASM title must beat him to do it.

[rob meulenberg]

I think its a bad idea to use the same name, especially so close to ASC nationals but isn't this closer to the way things are done internationally? I mean the lack of a pro/am split but using qualifiers. Long term I think thats the way things need to head, puts things more in line with other international sports, at least as I understand them.

They only do this internationally because they do not have the amount of competitors that the US does. The ASC exists (IMO) as a way to create a structured "pro" rank in the sport of strongman. If you left it open, you would have too many people showing up to "pro" contests that should not be there. I see this happen at NAS Pro/ams quite a bit as well.

You need to earn a pro card in bodybuilding, you need to hit certain totals in powerlifting to lift in "pro" meets, why should strongman be any different?

And $250 is way to much for a meet, tested or not. Tests for the USAPL cost ~$80 a pop (I have put on USAPL meets and competed there)...so why is it $250 for this contest.

[Matt Stiefel]

most great competitors will be attending the real America's Strongest Man and whoever wins this contest will not have true claim to fame.


That may be technically true, especially to people here. However, if Phil's contest is shown on ESPN that is the one all the regular people will watch and talk about. Kinda like how everyone knows "that Polish dude" but almost no one has heard of Zydrunas or Misha, etc.

Not to mention, if Phil is offering big money, national TV exposure, and an invite to WSM, this contest will be very tempting for a lot of guys. If the ASC championships offers an invite to IFSA Worlds, that may not mean much considering the current state of IFSA. I am sure all of the pros have their opinions between the two federations and a lot more information than I know regarding the state of IFSA, but I think if I were in their shoes right now, I would go for an invitation to WSM if I had to pick between the two. I would be interested to hear some pros on this forum weigh in on the two contests.

[Brandon Campbell]

sounds like the winners will only be tested I think, its a cool idea but whats the limit on who can show up? if 500 people show up there is no way it will run smooth.

personally, willie and dione have done a great thing with NAS and the ASC. I rather do the American strongest man contest they put on and continue to support them.

[Ryan Rhodes]

so why is it $250 for this contest.

Probably to limit the field to legitimate competitiors. You probably wouldn't enter a $250 contest if you didn't think you could at least hang with the competition. As far as drug testing expenses, I know promoters who have just had it sponsored out. If this comp. is as big as it looks, I don't know why they wouldn't do that.

[Ryan Rhodes]

...................................

[Kevin Cronin]

Not to mention, if Phil is offering big money, national TV exposure, and an invite to WSM, this contest will be very tempting for a lot of guys. If the ASC championships offers an invite to IFSA Worlds, that may not mean much considering the current state of IFSA. I am sure all of the pros have their opinions between the two federations and a lot more information than I know regarding the state of IFSA, but I think if I were in their shoes right now, I would go for an invitation to WSM if I had to pick between the two.
Yeah, but a lot of the pros will have other considerations, so lets not even go down that path.

if 500 people show up there is no way it will run smooth.
If 500 people show up, that's $125,000, up front, in entry fees. For that kind of $$ they'll make it run.

I agree with Rob about the card. I understand the CONCEPT that theres some super-strong guy who just started, and is thus an am, but would otherwise be a threat to win the whole thing at nats, but I dont see that in actuality, certainly not at teh present time. How many rookie pros have won ASM? it's never happened, has it? how many rookies were even good enough to win their pro card their first year? I know Tom McClure did, but has anyone else?

Having an am/pro split allows for an intermediate step between "raw beginner" and "WSM competitor." Besides, would it be any fun to enter a contest in MN that Gillingham and Ostlund entered? Or what about anywhere between NYC and Boston? You're talking about Gogola, Benderoth, Poundstone, McClure and Nee (if he were, yknow, home on vacation.) And that's just off the top of my head.

I think it would be pretty cool to have pro athletes from other types of sports competing in strongman (like in the old days); maybe organize things like mma's been doing it.
It's interesting that you pick mma Ryan, which started out like strongman (fighters coming from many differetn styles/strength athletes from OL, PL, NFL, etc) and is now completely specialized (or generalized, depending on how you look at it) ie, they are almost all announced as Mixed Martial Artists. The same way that as far as I can think of, all the strongmen are strongmen first, last and always

[Jared Enderton]

I'd say that the big entry fee might be because the pay out is pretty big for this type of event anyway.

[MarshallWhite]

Oh goody!! Now we can have the "american Idol" of strongman shows go down....let's have anyone that wants to show up and compete regardless of your past accomplishments...hell you don't even have to qualify for it....yeah that legitimizes the sport :FF: ........

[Matt Stiefel]

Yeah, but a lot of the pros will have other considerations, so lets not even go down that path.




I think I get your point, and that is something I did not consider.

[Jonathan Forrest Riggs]

I believe that the main concern is the Drug Testing. The 250 bucks kind of drives the point home that if you think you have a chance to recuperate your entry fee, you had better be drug free. Phil has always been openly against drug use in an effort to make monetary gains.



.........Why are the poundages used in events at big (and not so big) contests increasing at an "alarming" rate? Has man evolved at an exponential rate over the past 5 years? Have training methods evolved over the past 5 years? What has evolved so much in the past 5 (or so) years that allows;

Big stones go from 365lbs to 500+lbs?

300lb farmers to 400lb farmers?

The 300lb log of 5 years ago is now a 400lb log!

The increase of strength over the years is Amazing!

One thing is for sure, Strength continues to evolve and most likely always will.

Peace

[Josh Thigpen]

Does anyone know if Phil himself is planning on competing in the show?

[Jeff Bach]

I think the $50K in prize money and the ticket to WSM will prove to be a big thing.

Any time there are problems in a big federation you would think the guys will just follow the money until things shake out. May put a big pinch on other contest but lets see. Sanctioned events of late haven't come through with promises.

"Coin rules the Day!"

The $250 I would think counts out the "500" people showing up. You don't even get on TV unless you make the finals. Yes I am sure there will be a few who shouldn't be there but for the most part if you know you are an idiot (like me) or can't pass the test, it isn't likely you will shell out $250.

And I like the early stages of American Idol. In fact I hope they make a video of the first day. I could make great beer drinking entertainment and conversation.

In fact I remember a few pretty goofy things I say Phil do when he (and the whole strongman thing in the US) was just getting started.

[DaneGarreau]

How many rookie pros have won ASM? it's never happened, has it?


I completely agree with what you are saying, but Van did win Pro Nationals in his very first pro contest(2004 at the GNC Show of Strength in Atlanta).

Just thought I'd throw that in there for historical accuracy's sake.

[Mike Gill]

Oh goody!! Now we can have the "american Idol" of strongman shows go down....let's have anyone that wants to show up and compete regardless of your past accomplishments...hell you don't even have to qualify for it....yeah that legitimizes the sport :FF: ........

This should be call the US Open strongman event. In golf or Tennis it's considered a major event. I'm not so sure why you would care what anyones past accomplishments are... In this sport all you can control are you actions and how you perform, so it really shouldn't matter who you are competeing against.

[Karl Gillingham]

I completely agree with what you are saying, but Van did win Pro Nationals in his very first pro contest(2004 at the GNC Show of Strength in Atlanta).

Just thought I'd throw that in there for historical accuracy's sake.


I also won Pro Nationals in the first Strongman Contest I ever competed in. 1998...

(Van & I did have many years of USAPL experience behind us however.)

[Kevin Cronin]

OK, so Van and Karl both won it their first time around. For the record, my question ('it's never happened, has it?) was not rhetorical, I just didnt know, so good to know.

On the other hand, the situation was different in 98 and even, I would argue, in 04, when there were still so many good pros who didnt have their cards yet; I'm guessing the card system was new? When did it start? I just keep thinking of Kevin Nee's episode of True Life where he, Thigpen, Ostlund and McDonald are all at a pro-am ... as amateurs. There are other contests like that, I wish I could remember them now

[Garrick Daft]

There are some strong individuals deep in the heart of WV who may enter this contest, unknown persons who work hard everyday. The $250 entry fee will probably make it hard for some to enter, but you can guarantee that a few will be coming out of the woodwork to enter this contest. That makes this contest interesting in itself..... Is there a Karl, or Van, or McClure? Andrus Murumets was just a farmboy, discovered a strongman contest and decided to enter, he won it and the rest is history.

[DaneGarreau]

OK, so Van and Karl both won it their first time around. For the record, my question ('it's never happened, has it?) was not rhetorical, I just didnt know, so good to know.

On the other hand, the situation was different in 98 and even, I would argue, in 04, when there were still so many good pros who didnt have their cards yet; I'm guessing the card system was new? When did it start? I just keep thinking of Kevin Nee's episode of True Life where he, Thigpen, Ostlund and McDonald are all at a pro-am ... as amateurs. There are other contests like that, I wish I could remember them now

I started following the sport back in 2003, so that is as far back as I can elaborate on, i'm sure others can fill in the time before that.

Either way, in 2003 there were pro cards handed out at Nats(03 Corey St. Claire won), and at Pro ams(03 Monsters of midwest Sam Mcmahon won).

So no, the Pro card system is not new, but I'm not sure exactly how far back it dates.

[Kevin Cronin]

I started following the sport back in 2003, so that is as far back as I can elaborate on, i'm sure others can fill in the time before that.

Either way, in 2003 there were pro cards handed out at Nats(03 Corey St. Claire won), and at Pro ams(03 Monsters of midwest Sam Mcmahon won).

So no, the Pro card system is not new, but I'm not sure exactly how far back it dates.
I was saying it WAS new at the time, hence the greater likelihood that someone good enough to win nats (ie van) wouldve just gotten his card. On the other hand, if it were introduced much before 03, then maybe it wouldve been around a while, sort of undermining my argument ... hmmm....

[Ryan Brown]

card system dates back to AM Nationals 2003 I'm almost certain. Corey was the first pro under this system on the HW side. The pro-ams began after that contest. Prior to that time if was less cut and dry about who was pro. Basically if you worked your way into some top pro shows you were pro was my understanding.

Kevin, I think you are correct. Before the card system there was a stock pile of great am competitors waiting to go pro. 2004 and 2005 sort of cleared the deck with 18 pro ams or so.

[MarshallWhite]

This should be call the US Open strongman event. In golf or Tennis it's considered a major event. I'm not so sure why you would care what anyones past accomplishments are... In this sport all you can control are you actions and how you perform, so it really shouldn't matter who you are competeing against.
Relying on past accomplishments or having to qualify for a show is what will legitimize our sport we already have too many "backyard redneck" shows going down...this is a slap in the face to the orginization and athletes that have worked hard to establish a LEGITIMATE qualifying system to lead up to the true ASM. How many pros do you think are really going to do this show? It seems to me it's just going to be a bunch of "out of the crowd" types, maybe some pl'ers, and I'm sure Dan Harrison..trying to make some money, and go to WSM, and do you think this will be a good show? Phil likes things heavy...do you think you can smash a 900lb yoke like a pro, how about a 320 log for reps? There is a reason we get to compete in the shows we do.......PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!! As WSM Phil did very little to contribute to the furtherance of our sport...where were the media appearances, when did he post on boards, public speaking? Now he is going to try and illegitimize it further because he thinks this is a "cool idea".....good for him :disgust: ......I don't give a crap who wins this show they WILL NOT be the true America's Strongest Man nor will they be a TRUE WSM competitor.......then again maybe I'm wrong maybe this is the greatest show ever made.....but I seriously doubt it. My two cents.

[Jamey Niewojna]

Relying on past accomplishments or having to qualify for a show is what will legitimize our sport we already have too many "backyard redneck" shows going down...this is a slap in the face to the orginization and athletes that have worked hard to establish a LEGITIMATE qualifying system to lead up to the true ASM. How many pros do you think are really going to do this show? It seems to me it's just going to be a bunch of "out of the crowd" types, maybe some pl'ers, and I'm sure Dan Harrison..trying to make some money, and go to WSM, and do you think this will be a good show? Phil likes things heavy...do you think you can smash a 900lb yoke like a pro, how about a 320 log for reps? There is a reason we get to compete in the shows we do.......PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!! As WSM Phil did very little to contribute to the furtherance of our sport...where were the media appearances, when did he post on boards, public speaking? Now he is going to try and illegitimize it further because he thinks this is a "cool idea".....good for him :disgust: ......I don't give a crap who wins this show they WILL NOT be the true America's Strongest Man nor will they be a TRUE WSM competitor.......then again maybe I'm wrong maybe this is the greatest show ever made.....but I seriously doubt it. My two cents.

Thank you! The whole thing is a joke! The real Americas Strongest Man will be held 2 weeks prior in San Diego. The winner of Phil's show MIGHT be the strongest man in West Virginia, maybe. Sad, sad, joke. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a fool! :disgust:

[Mike Gill]

Relying on past accomplishments or having to qualify for a show is what will legitimize our sport we already have too many "backyard redneck" shows going down...this is a slap in the face to the orginization and athletes that have worked hard to establish a LEGITIMATE qualifying system to lead up to the true ASM. How many pros do you think are really going to do this show? It seems to me it's just going to be a bunch of "out of the crowd" types, maybe some pl'ers, and I'm sure Dan Harrison..trying to make some money, and go to WSM, and do you think this will be a good show? Phil likes things heavy...do you think you can smash a 900lb yoke like a pro, how about a 320 log for reps? There is a reason we get to compete in the shows we do.......PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS!!!! As WSM Phil did very little to contribute to the furtherance of our sport...where were the media appearances, when did he post on boards, public speaking? Now he is going to try and illegitimize it further because he thinks this is a "cool idea".....good for him :disgust: ......I don't give a crap who wins this show they WILL NOT be the true America's Strongest Man nor will they be a TRUE WSM competitor.......then again maybe I'm wrong maybe this is the greatest show ever made.....but I seriously doubt it. My two cents.


What I'm saying is that 2 major individual sports host an open and I don't think it brings down those sports. I honestly thikg the timing of the show and the testing is what is going to thin the quality of competitors. It will be interesting to see the weights chosen for this contest. There are a few pros who openly claim to be natural and lifting some remarkable weights, outclssing many guys who do not make the same claim.

This will be a good arena for them to showcase thier strength, if the contest is heavy enough; those pros will demolish the field.

I doubt this will be a great contest or anywhere near the test of strength that the ASC ASM will be. Given time and some direction it could evolve...?

[Ryan Brown]

to me it is the name of it that is the slap in the face. I agree it should be called "Strongman US Open" or something. I don't think it is horrible to have one-offs here and there where some guy like Phil tries his hand at promoting a big show, but to call it ASM is confusing and not proper IMO. The ASM contest is a long running contest run through the ASC and requires a series of steps to get there. Now even people in the know may be confused about what is going on here.

Personally I'll be very surprised if some nobody out of the crowd wins this contest. Depending on who shows up it could be an am, but it will be a very experienced AM in my opinion. It sounds good to think some guy out of no where could show up and win, but in strongman experience is very valuable. In the instance of Van winning Nats as his first pro show, this is true, but he was hardly inexperienced at the time. He was well known in Powerlifting and had already done a number of pro-ams and am-nats. Some of the pro-ams in that day were essentially like pro shows now because there were maybe 6-7 guys at those shows who are now pro.

[Kevin Cronin]

I posted this in the other thread (the 'Phil Pfister' thread) but i think it's pretty relevant here. Marshall and Jamey both bring up a great point, that the organization brouhgt about by ASC has grown the sport. But one thing that I think is being overlooked is the opportunity for exposure

I agree with Ryan that the choice of name is somewhat unfortunate, but for whatever reason, Phil seems to be (i'll believe it 100% only when I see it) able to get a contest on tv. And not Fox Sports that some people dont even get, ESPN2. That's a pretty valuable asset to bring to the table.

The best case scenario for all of this, of course, is that some new fan watching this googles "strongman" which gives the NAS homepage as teh second result (behind wikipedia) (unless they google "worlds strongest man", which doesnt have ANY NAS or ASC stuff on the results page ) and gets drawn into the sport that way.

[Jamey Niewojna]

I agree exposure is needed and deserved Kevin. Just not this kind of exposure. A real pro show on espn would be awesome! Televising a group of unproven strongmen who just paid an entry fee doesnt sound like the right kind of publicity. In the end, I'm for anything to help promote the sport of strongman. If this show brings a new fan base and changes the sport in a positive way then I am wrong, it wont be the dumbest thing ever.

[Billy Wolt]

I think it's a great idea, except for the name of course.

I'm sure there will be some top am's (like dan harrison) that show up, and I'm sure there will be some new comers to the sport...regardless, the best person will win.

It's great exposure for the sport...just like when Kevin was on MTV.


edit - we are used to this card system, but it's not what is used in other countries, and was not used here for years....remember when different types of strength athletes were invited?

[Jonathan Forrest Riggs]

Relying on past accomplishments or having to qualify for a show is what will legitimize our sport we already have too many "backyard redneck" shows going down...this is a slap in the face to the orginization and athletes that have worked hard to establish a LEGITIMATE qualifying system to lead up to the true ASM.
Backyard shows are what got this sport going. They are the backbone of this sport. Many people compete in these type of shows, and if they find they like it, they move up to NASS, etc...
How many pros do you think are really going to do this show?
The more the better. I think having pros compete at this contest will help put things into perspective.
Phil likes things heavy...do you think you can smash a 900lb yoke like a pro, how about a 320 log for reps?those two events I would do pretty good at. I actually beat quite a few pros in these two events in the past at a pro-am.
As WSM Phil did very little to contribute to the furtherance of our sport...where were the media appearances, when did he post on boards, public speaking? name a WSM that actually did what you speak of.
Now he is going to try and illegitimize it further because he thinks this is a "cool idea".....good for him :disgust: ......I don't give a crap who wins this show they WILL NOT be the true America's Strongest Man nor will they be a TRUE WSM competitor.is the WSM ever really the "Strongest Man in the World?" Something to ponder, I guess.

Everybody who participates in this sport does it for fun. People who win should be commended for their accomplishments. People who come in last should be commended also. Having a contest on ESPN 2 is a great thing! No matter how it became to be.
:BL:

[DinoNick Osborne]

I am not offering an opinion on this either way. Until I read this post today, I had no idea what it was about.

I have not even talked to Phil about this, other than if I might help with scoring or something. Phil doesn't need or want me to stick up for him.

Here is something he told me after winning WSM... He was told that the guy that started WSM and works for IMG owned the rights to the name ASM, and Phil could use it.

Phil could have been told something wrong, could have heard it wrong, or told me something wrong.

Throw the name out for a minute, and think TV came to Phil and asked him to put something together, Isn't this exactly what people have been asking for, since before I was in the sport.

I have heard a lot of complaining that VS. does not put on strongman when they announce it, or play it enough. ESPN/TWI/IMG whom ever decided to work with Phil. I don't know why, but why throw this contest out, is it just because of the Name?

Hell there are an over abundance of contests this summer. Ignore this one if you want.

Phil has never been a big fan, or recognizing orgs, or rules. Most of the old time Strongmen... Karl (lol) and Mark P survived the Jim Davis years and everything else, and made a lot of the sport when they did not have anyone like Willie and Dione to truly promote and organize the sport. They don't have the same loyalties.

Willie and Dione work VERY hard. I know this. THey know I know this. I still Chat with them, even if Dione and I don't see eye to eye at a contest I am competing in...lol

Again, just think people.

[Jeff Bach]

Thank you! The whole thing is a joke! The real Americas Strongest Man will be held 2 weeks prior in San Diego. The winner of Phil's show MIGHT be the strongest man in West Virginia, maybe. Sad, sad, joke. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a fool! :disgust:

I guess I am a fool.

Many of the guys in the sport today are working their asses of, doing well and not getting the big pay day.

$10G is a pretty good paycheck.

[Jeff Bach]

to me it is the name of it that is the slap in the face. I agree it should be called "Strongman US Open" or something. I don't think it is horrible to have one-offs here and there where some guy like Phil tries his hand at promoting a big show, but to call it ASM is confusing and not proper IMO. The ASM contest is a long running contest run through the ASC and requires a series of steps to get there. Now even people in the know may be confused about what is going on here.

Personally I'll be very surprised if some nobody out of the crowd wins this contest. Depending on who shows up it could be an am, but it will be a very experienced AM in my opinion. It sounds good to think some guy out of no where could show up and win, but in strongman experience is very valuable. In the instance of Van winning Nats as his first pro show, this is true, but he was hardly inexperienced at the time. He was well known in Powerlifting and had already done a number of pro-ams and am-nats. Some of the pro-ams in that day were essentially like pro shows now because there were maybe 6-7 guys at those shows who are now pro.

Ryan,

Did Jim Davis use ASM before ASC? Was it a slap in Jim Davis' face then after he got shoved out?

[Ryan Brown]

Ryan,

Did Jim Davis use ASM before ASC? Was it a slap in Jim Davis' face then after he got shoved out?

I don't know any details about Jim Davis Jeff. I thought he just stepped down. But to my knowledge there were not two contests going with that name at the same time. That was my point. Why cause confusion? Just call it one of the other endless possiilities of names that one could think up.

[James Deffinbaugh]

Phil Pfister's ASM is not affiliated with ASC. So they're not in a position to require people to have ASC pro cards.

Maybe they tried to come to an agreement and couldn't. We don't know if ASC was asking for too much money, or if Chesapeake and Phil didn't want another chef spoiling the pot. The important thing is that they are getting another strongman contest on ESPN, and that's a big deal. For some reason ASC was never able to do that, and Phil was.

There's not going to be a bunch of sh**ty amateurs on ESPN2. Only the top 10 get televised, and even 10th place gets $1000. No couch potato is going to happen to "get lucky" and be able to press a massive log, do a heavy farmers, and pull a truck better than an experienced pro strongman. If a random does beat the pros, that means he's probably stronger than them. Should he have had to run through the rigmarole and fly to one of the 3 platinum+ contests, pay the $40 NAS fee and $100 entry fee, had to compete in countless contests (that might not even be worth his time to go to) to compete in this unaffiliated contest?

Saying you need to be an ASC pro to be in a high level strongman contest NOT run by ASC is ridiculous. ASC is just a privately run business, not some de jure standard in US strongman. Going invite-only would be completely subjective, and not in the spirit of the contest. And, it would be a lot to ask for him to start an entire new league just for this ASM contest.

[anton axelsson]

despite the name i think we should all look at this as a good thing atleast we get publisity and a chance for the top amatures to show what thay got nobody can realy say that a top amature cant beat a pro we all know that anything can happen in strongman this has its pros and cons... we all bust ouer a$$ to get good at this sport so i must say we should try support this beacause of TV covarage thats what we all want rite

[Ryan Brown]

There's not going to be a bunch of sh**ty amateurs on ESPN2. Only the top 10 get televised, and even 10th place gets $1000. No couch potato is going to happen to "get lucky" and be able to press a massive log, do a heavy farmers, and pull a truck better than an experienced pro strongman. If a random does beat the pros, that means he's probably stronger than them.


this assumes that at least 10 very experienced pro (or pro-level) strongmen show up to this contest. If they do not then it is very possible that you could see some random guys in the top 10 on ESPN2 that cannot perform at near the level that you typically see on TV. A lot of the top guys now will be at the ASC ASM contest and I can't see them doing both contests given how close they are to each other and other reasons, but I guess we will see. Maybe the money will talk. After all ESPN already has a history of having some pretty poor athletes on TV. WSM in the past has had some very bad strongmen in the qualifiers IMO--yes I know they were there to "represent their country" but when you are out of your league should you be on TV?

On a related point, what is going on with the "reporting" at Ironmind. I just noticed how insulting the blurb was on their site:

This is a drug-tested competition, and instead of giving the winner a rubber check or a card with the value of Monopoly money, it actually pays US$10,000 to the winner

there are about four insults just within this sentence. The rubber check part I suppose may have merrit, but I'm not sure why it would be mentioned in a mention of Phil's contest. The card having the value of Monopoly money comment is very insulting I think. To me, most of strongman has a monetary value of not much; that's not why the guys do it. Even Mariuz says he does it for the competition and to win.

[Eric Todd]

Just a quick reply to when NAS started the pro card thing-It was at Nats 2002. Nick Courtad got it. The following year they had the Platinum plus shows where a pro card could be won, Lumberjack Day in MN, Dino Days in OH, and Montsers of the Midwest in St Louis, were a couple that had these available. Dont remember what other contests were platinum plus in 2003.
Just a bit of history
ET

[Ryan Brown]

Just a quick reply to when NAS started the pro card thing-It was at Nats 2002. Nick Courtad got it. The following year they had the Platinum plus shows where a pro card could be won, Lumberjack Day in MN, Dino Days in OH, and Montsers of the Midwest in St Louis, were a couple that had these available. Dont remember what other contests were platinum plus in 2003.
Just a bit of history
ET

you're right ET. I forgot about that; 2003 Nats was the first lw cards, but they had already done the HW cards for a while. I should remember this since I think I competed in some of those Plat plus shows...lol

[Jamey Niewojna]

The winner of this joke will get destroyed at the pro level. But thanks for the publicity! :EB:

[MarshallWhite]

The winner of this joke will get destroyed at the pro level. But thanks for the publicity! :EB:
hahahahahahahahahahaa!!!! This will be negative publicity for sure....you are all making the assumption that ANY pros at all will show up....your also making the assumption that the person who wins this show will ever get to compete in ASC.........not likely...I'm pretty sure they don't take to kindly to copying of the name or the illegitimization of their system. The publicity gained from this will make us look ridiculous.

[MarshallWhite]

is the WSM ever really the "Strongest Man in the World?" Something to ponder, I guess.

Everybody who participates in this sport does it for fun. People who win should be commended for their accomplishments. People who come in last should be commended also. Having a contest on ESPN 2 is a great thing! No matter how it became to be.
:BL:
Ohhhhhh you beat a couple pros at 2 events!!! Well then I'm suprised Dione hasn't given you an honorary Bad A$$ Pro Card...you should also be expecting your WSM invitation pretty soon as well....I mean you beat them at two events I see no reason why you wouldn't excel at doing 10+ shows a year and capping it off with 2 weeks at WSM.

As for the WSM who has promoted himself and the sport I'll use an American, Bill Kazmaier....when Kaz walks into a room people know who he is, because of how many appearances, media, etc. he has done, and although not WSM Poundstone has done a great job of promotion ( do I even need to mention the things Jesse did for our sport?)...as for Phil....he won and we never heard from him again..until now.

[lhprop1]

The winner of this joke will get destroyed at the pro level. But thanks for the publicity! :EB:

Perhaps you should wait to see who shows up before making such a bold statement. As far as getting top notch guys to show up, $10k is pretty tempting. I'm willing to bet a few recognizable pros will be there.

[Barney Shannon]

I wonder if the possibility of a $10,000 payday has guys skipping the ASC comp?

[Billy Wolt]

For those bashing this contest or bashing people that may participate, why not just compete yourself? it's an open contest.

It's not like this event is gonna be filled with walk-ons from the street.....If top am's show up, or even some pros (com'n marshall, enter and get a ticket to worlds), then the chances of some nobody getting a free ride to worlds are slim, unless like someone else mentioned, the nobody wins, in which case, the nobody would be a better strongman.

If I felt like i could handle the events, i wouldn't think twice about entering this event. WSM is a dream for most of us, maybe even people who don't compete....why should a pro-card system stop any of us.

Like i said, if i competed and won, I wouldn't give a crap what what any of the top level strongmen think, I"D BE GOING TO WORLDS!!!!!

[justinbill]

There's not going to be a bunch of sh**ty amateurs on ESPN2. Only the top 10 get televised, and even 10th place gets $1000. No couch potato is going to happen to "get lucky" and be able to press a massive log, do a heavy farmers, and pull a truck better than an experienced pro strongman. If a random does beat the pros, that means he's probably stronger than them. Should he have had to run through the rigmarole and fly to one of the 3 platinum+ contests, pay the $40 NAS fee and $100 entry fee, had to compete in countless contests (that might not even be worth his time to go to) to compete in this unaffiliated contest? .

I used to work in a very tame topless club in oceanside CA, Once a month on a tuesday, they would have Amauter night. Normal tuesday nights were absolutely dead. Somehow a 300 prize made people line up, the place was always full. at least 10 girls would show up, always some hotties.

the owner of the club let me in on a secret, have an AM. night with no prize money, no one will show up, the bigger the prize, the better the contestant. you make it a thousand dollars, 50 girls will show up, and a line would be around the corner.

Point is, putting up a big prize money, and having prize money for the top 10 contestants is going to make a lot of competitors show up. A lot of really good competitors. I also think that some of the credibility of winning this competition will be worth a lot for someone wanting to develop sponsorships.

[Garrick Daft]

I used to work in a very tame topless club in oceanside CA, Once a month on a tuesday, they would have Amauter night. Normal tuesday nights were absolutely dead. Somehow a 300 prize made people line up, the place was always full. at least 10 girls would show up, always some hotties.

the owner of the club let me in on a secret, have an AM. night with no prize money, no one will show up, the bigger the prize, the better the contestant. you make it a thousand dollars, 50 girls will show up, and a line would be around the corner.

Nothing better then a stripper analogy!! :LOL: :YR:

Hopefully this contest has a positive impact on the sport. I'm sure top pros will compete...what Pfister is offering is major... (WSM invite, ESPN coverage, $10,000, plus whatever promotional type stuff they have planned for the winner)

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

being From the old school I'm pretty sure Phil never earned a 'pro card'--he was 4th at WSM in his second contest he ever competed in-there may be other old school American Pros that truly haven't earned a 'pro card'.
I am Not comparing 1998 WSM to what level WSM is now.

To the present --I'm pretty sure Brian Siders does not have a 'pro card'and he does quite well at the Arnold-
Phil,in the past,was always the optimist and always felt there were plenty of really freaky strong guys that haven't ever been heard from-

I haven't talked to Phil in awhile but i'm guessing that part of the reason he chose the title 'America's Strongest Man'is that it is tied into the 4th of July weekend--a significant american holiday-

Phil and kaz have a pretty good relationship-they used to be great friends--maybe still are--I'd guess he has consulted with Kaz about this contest-

[Reggie Brown]

I think both sides have a pretty good argument here.

I have nothing but respect for anyone who has their pro card, they are not easy to get. It is somewhat a slap in the face to all those guys who worked that hard to earn one.

On the other side, this is kinda cool. You could have some good competition here, and the cut will eliminate anyone who should not be there.

More bad news for the pros is that IMO this is going to cause more politics in strongman. I'm sure that the people in charge at ASC are not going to be happy if a bunch of athletes show up for Phil's show. So, I'm sure a handfull of guys will be faced with a tough decision. 10k to the winner and an invite to worlds is pretty strong however.

Another big part of this I think is the testing. If they flunk the drug test, no prize money, but you still get the invite to worlds? Kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me.

Reggie

[Billy Wolt]

don't forget, we are the only nation in this sport to have a pro-card system...

with that said, i think the pro card thing is full of fault, moslty nationals...80+ people competing for one card, kinda screws up your chances of winning if a slip on the yoke or stones, puts you 1 second behind the leader, and in 20th place costing you that many points.

no disrespect towards anyone who has won any national events, but you have to be PERFECT.

Perhaps the pro card system could be fixed with a several round of qualifying events instead of just throwing 80 guys in the mix at one contest.

[Nate Butler]

Nothing better then a stripper analogy!! :LOL: :YR:

Hopefully this contest has a positive impact on the sport. I'm sure top pros will compete...what Pfister is offering is major... (WSM invite, ESPN coverage, $10,000, plus whatever promotional type stuff they have planned for the winner)
I like the fact that this contest is tested. It will be interesting to see how many pros show up.

[Kevin Cronin]

If top am's show up, or even some pros (com'n marshall, enter and get a ticket to worlds), then the chances of some nobody getting a free ride to worlds are slim,

If a random does beat the pros, that means he's probably stronger than them.

I wonder if the possibility of a $10,000 payday has guys skipping the ASC comp?

I know we are not allowed to talk about IT, but that doesnt mean that IT should be completely ignored. we need to stop pretending that anyone can compete in this. THIS IS NOT AN OPEN CONTEST, it is tested. Some of the pros are eligible, some arent. I dont know who is or isnt, and I dont care either.

To be honest I dont care about amateurs or newbies competing directly against the pros. The name is an unfortunate choice, but the positive of having tv exposure for the sport outweighs that, in my opinion. But I am just hoping that this testing does not signal the beginning of an unfortunate trend. The last thing that this sport needs is an inquisition, a witch hunt when the competitors are divided into two classes: those who are allowed, and those who arent allowed to compete in this contest. Need an example? Look at the post above mine. Why are you interested in who shows up? It's none of our business so its just scratching a rather prurient itch. For goodness sakes, theres a thread on the USAPL's forum where theyre having open speculation as to how many of their members are breaking the rules. I'd rather just have an org where nobody cares, and I just hope that the "drug-tested" aspect of the competition isnt hyped up on espn ... otherwise the drug-testing will be noticeable by its absence on WSM, NAS and ASC contests

[Jamey Niewojna]

don't forget, we are the only nation in this sport to have a pro-card system...

with that said, i think the pro card thing is full of fault, moslty nationals...80+ people competing for one card, kinda screws up your chances of winning if a slip on the yoke or stones, puts you 1 second behind the leader, and in 20th place costing you that many points.

no disrespect towards anyone who has won any national events, but you have to be PERFECT.

Perhaps the pro card system could be fixed with a several round of qualifying events instead of just throwing 80 guys in the mix at one contest.

No disrespect Billy at all, but this statement is completly untrue. Scott and I made several mistakes in 06. And both Justins made minor mistakes in Vegas. Its consistincy, not perfection that wins the national title. In the end there can be only one. I'll see you in a couple weeks.

[Jonathan Forrest Riggs]

Ohhhhhh you beat a couple pros at 2 events!!! Well then I'm suprised Dione hasn't given you an honorary Bad A$$ Pro Card...you should also be expecting your WSM invitation pretty soon as well....I mean you beat them at two events I see no reason why you wouldn't excel at doing 10+ shows a year and capping it off with 2 weeks at WSM.

As for the WSM who has promoted himself and the sport I'll use an American, Bill Kazmaier....when Kaz walks into a room people know who he is, because of how many appearances, media, etc. he has done, and although not WSM Poundstone has done a great job of promotion ( do I even need to mention the things Jesse did for our sport?)...as for Phil....he won and we never heard from him again..until now.


I mean DICK. I have been competing much longer than you have. I have promoted many grass roots contests and a NASS contest to boot. Your ignorance is not becoming to this board. I did 7 shows a year for three years when I was taking it more seriously. My strongman competition resume' is actually quite lengthy and impressive. My results, on the other hand were mediocre. I usually perform quite well in half of the events and do terrible in the other half.

How long have you been competing? Will you be able to collect money at this show?

[Billy Wolt]

No disrespect Billy at all, but this statement is completly untrue. Scott and I made several mistakes in 06. And both Justins made minor mistakes in Vegas. Its consistincy, not perfection that wins the national title. In the end there can be only one. I'll see you in a couple weeks.

alright...so close to perfect :)

[anton axelsson]

i just wana know marshal why you are so pist off is it the name or the fact there us AM are getting a chance to get some exsposure so what we arent pros and dont do 10 shows a year doese that mean we dont deserve to be seen and help promot this sport and why are you talking for the rest of the pros 10k is alot of money man and as strongman is not a big money sport im guessing alot of pros will be trying for that 10k. the name can be changed but to sit there and talk down to us amatures like we arent worth giveing a chance is kinda mest up just beacause you are a pro an much respect doesnt give you that rite :M:

[Justin Blake]

No disrespect Billy at all, but this statement is completly untrue. Scott and I made several mistakes in 06. And both Justins made minor mistakes in Vegas. Its consistincy, not perfection that wins the national title. In the end there can be only one. I'll see you in a couple weeks.

the only thing i thought i performed well on in vegas was the yoke, 1 out of 5 is far from perfect, Im sure Wheeler could pick out something from most of the events that he messed up too.

There is certainly some to be gained (media coverage) and some to be lost (politics, arguements over who is americas true strongest man) by having this contest. It will be interesting to see how it goes down in the end. The thing that irks me is the name, for obvious reasons...

[MarshallWhite]

i just wana know marshal why you are so pist off is it the name or the fact there us AM are getting a chance to get some exsposure so what we arent pros and dont do 10 shows a year doese that mean we dont deserve to be seen and help promot this sport and why are you talking for the rest of the pros 10k is alot of money man and as strongman is not a big money sport im guessing alot of pros will be trying for that 10k. the name can be changed but to sit there and talk down to us amatures like we arent worth giveing a chance is kinda mest up just beacause you are a pro an much respect doesnt give you that rite :M:
Whoa homey I'm not in any way trying to disrespect the AMs here, I made that comment to prove the point to jonathan that there is a reason pros compete at the shows they do and it doesn't entirely have to do with how well you do on "half the events", I'm not at all upset that ams can compete, I'm upset that the system that we worked so hard to achieve is being thrown out the window, the way to change things is not to just up and throw together some show you think is cool, with some prize money and a WSM berth.....just like Reggie said this only creates more politics for the pros and for the sport in general I just don't see why Phil couldn't work within the system to achieve this.......I also think that because of a whole slew of reasons you will not see the "top level" guys show up to this which in my opinion will illegitimize our sport even further. I just think that a lot of ams and maybe even some "lower tier" pros are looking at this thinking "sweet, less competition, more money and possibly my only chance to get to WSM" insteadly of legitimately putting in the effort and climbing the ranks and using the system already set in place. Again I was in no way trying to offend anyone....I'm just a little outspoken that's all :LOL:

Jonathan- I'm not going to get into an argument with you here, PM me if you would like to talk further off this topic......my accomplishments speak for themselves...as do yours.

[anton axelsson]

well why doesnt someone just talk to phil and kindley ask him to change the name??

[lhprop1]

well why doesnt someone just talk to phil and kindley ask him to change the name??

I'm sure ESPN played some role in choosing the name.

[Billy Wolt]

maybe the name has something to do with this being an open competition! It allows for anyone to compete...maybe we see some monsters come out who have been hiding in their basements....

WSM used to invite all kinds of strength athletes...I think this is a great way to open the sport up to new people.

[anton axelsson]

Whoa homey I'm not in any way trying to disrespect the AMs here, I made that comment to prove the point to jonathan that there is a reason pros compete at the shows they do and it doesn't entirely have to do with how well you do on "half the events", I'm not at all upset that ams can compete, I'm upset that the system that we worked so hard to achieve is being thrown out the window, the way to change things is not to just up and throw together some show you think is cool, with some prize money and a WSM berth.....just like Reggie said this only creates more politics for the pros and for the sport in general I just don't see why Phil couldn't work within the system to achieve this.......I also think that because of a whole slew of reasons you will not see the "top level" guys show up to this which in my opinion will illegitimize our sport even further. I just think that a lot of ams and maybe even some "lower tier" pros are looking at this thinking "sweet, less competition, more money and possibly my only chance to get to WSM" insteadly of legitimately putting in the effort and climbing the ranks and using the system already set in place. Again I was in no way trying to offend anyone....I'm just a little outspoken that's all :LOL:

Jonathan- I'm not going to get into an argument with you here, PM me if you would like to talk further off this topic......my accomplishments speak for themselves...as do yours.

i see your point marshal. and fully agree with you on the most part i think everyone should have to earn there way to the top.and in my oppinion the politics are kinda ruining the sport and takeing the fun out of it but again marshal thanks for clarifying that for me i was starting to think you were kinda an arogant punk :LOL: but now know your just outspoken hehehehe :M:

[anton axelsson]

I'm sure ESPN played some role in choosing the name.
well who is espn to decide the name its not like thay have done so much for the sport at all

[Ryan Wells]

Hey Marshall, tuck your bottom lip back in son.

[lhprop1]

well who is espn to decide the name its not like thay have done so much for the sport at all

You're right. Other than being the only channel who airs WSM for the last 15 or 20 years, they've done absolutely nothing.

[Kevin Cronin]

Hey Marshall, tuck your bottom lip back in son.

Is this supposed to mean he's crying? Marshall has an opinion and he's ticked off; he's not whining, he's not crying, he's arguing a viewpoint. I dont 100% agree with him, but I'd think we could have a debate on this forum without calling each other cry babies.

[Ryan Wells]

Is this supposed to mean he's crying? Marshall has an opinion and he's ticked off; he's not whining, he's not crying, he's arguing a viewpoint. I dont 100% agree with him, but I'd think we could have a debate on this forum without calling each other cry babies.
I like the board I just can't stand the whining.

[Garrick Daft]

Nick Osborne's post says that TWI chose the name because they own the rights to it..
He also says Pfister was approached by them to do this.

I believe TWI doesn't sanction their WSM contest either (since 04/05 fiasco), even though there is a legit organizing body (IFSA) who represents the athletes (well some of them, actually at the time of 2005, the current WSM was Vasyl Virastyuk, and TWI didn't really seem to interested in seeing him go to another World Championship due to not sanctioing). What resulted was more opportunity for more athletes in the long run.

I mean a strong argument could be made that the placements for WSM05 would be quite different had Vasyl, Zydrunas, Mikhail, Andrus, Travis, Karl, Pfister, Felix, and many others been available for TWI to select as competitors. Jesse's 2nd place allowed him to get the METRx contract and more exposure to help grow the US support, and that shows the true power of WSM's ESPN coverage and support platform.

So who knows what will happen with Phil's contest. If not America's Strongest Man, then it wil be USA's Strongest Man or some other. Fact is that it is happening, and it will effect the sport one way or the other.

It messes with us purists in some regards with just speculating and the ASM name confusion, but we've been through it for years now with IFSA and WSM. Purists following both, but knowing the true strongest champ was Zydrunas and also Vasyl, but still fascinated with WSM and having true respect for Mariusz and Phil. Now it seems the same will happen on a smaller scale within the US... that is of course assuming the current ASM champ shows up to offer his title for defense. If not, then speculation is for nothing.

[Garrick Daft]

Uhhh, one more thing..

MARSHALL :YR:

!! Good to hear your perspective. Nobody here thinks you are whining.

[Ryan Brown]

Nick Osborne's post says that TWI chose the name because they own the rights to it..

that's what the post says, but it is not the case. A simple search on the US trademark sites can show otherwise.

[James Deffinbaugh]

well who is espn to decide the name its not like thay have done so much for the sport at all
It's branding. It's important for promoting anything. They already do "World's Strongest Man". The natural name for a related contest in the US is "America's Strongest Man". Nothing else would have the same ring to it.

I'm guessing about 1 / 1000 people in the United States have heard of the ASC "America's Strongest Man" contest. Now many, many more people will know of an America's Strongest Man. It's not hurting the sport, it's mildly inconveniencing the very small number of people who are already into the sport, while providing much more coverage of strongman than ASC was ever able to muster.

ASC didn't trademark the name when they should have, years ago. They probably didn't until Phil Pfister and company approached them for an agreement (why else would the trademark dates be just 1 day apart). We don't know who has the biggest case for the name, and how TWI, ESPN, and Phil Pfister came about getting it. Maybe Jim Davis has a legitimate claim to the name and sold it to them. This is all speculation, for all we know ASC was infringing on the trademark for years. You don't need to go through USPTO to establish a trademark.

ASC isn't "the system", it's "a system". Don't forget that. Again, it's a private for-profit entity. Saying a promoter has a duty to go through this private institution to hold a contest is completely ridiculous! That's like saying people shouldn't be allowed to buy a generic MP3 player because it's not an ipod! We're a capitalist society, competition is a part of that.

When you say "pro", you mean "ASC pro". "Professional" means it's your principle employment. If you need to have another job to pay the bills you're not an actual professional. By definition I don't think even Phil Pfister is a 'pro' strongman.

I don't understand why people are so deeply offended about this contest. The name, again, is a mild inconvenience and the courts will decide who really owns it. Are you afraid of competing against people that aren't ASC Pro's, or afraid of the precedence that a drug tested contest might set?

[Johnathon Conner]

I dont care for it at all, i like the system we have now and think it works great. I thought i was alot stronger than i was untill hawaii. Some ot the "top" ams world get crushed against most all pros. I am sorry but what does it prove to send americas strongest tested man against the worlds strongest untested? Just seems pointless to be tested if the next show the winner goes to is untested. I have always been treated fair in nas so sorry if i dont want to spit in thier faces.

[Ryan Wells]

"North America's Strongest Man" would be just as good, if not better. There is a south America too fellas.

[chad_coy]

Having been in the sport for 15 years.......in the old days there was no distinction between Pro and AM .... not until the 02/03 season...03 was the first year of qualifying.....Jim Davis nor anyone else used the name ASM....It was always the National Championship......I did not get my "PRO CARD" until IFSA-USA and Jim Davis gave me one...of course after I paid my dues.


..I had the National Championship in 01 and we had 24 guys....about 8 of them did not belong and ran the risk of getting hurt...non of them made it past the 1st day...the idea that some freak will just come from BFE to win or even make the top 10 is absurd.

Phil has been spoken to and if you know Phil he will do what he wants. He really does not care for politics and now has his chance to take the sport in a direction he thinks it should be....personally I love the idea of a drug tested show, but hate the fact that it is open to anyone. The pro card system is a fair system and makes sure guys should be at a pro show( up to the level).

The exposure will be great for strongman....I disagree with Marshal I think many top names will be at the show.....atleast the ones the that are not worried about getting banned or can't pass the "test".....does that make it a hollow victory since you did not beat the best? Maybe, but the American public will see the ESPN covered show and remember them....just like everyone knows MP/4x WSM and no ones knows ZS/ifsa world champ.......just think of the last 2 Nationals-06/07 was SM or DP victories mean less because a handful of the best guys were not there? They are both National Champs!

For the last 5 years I( and many others) have worked to not see this division in the sport, but this act here is civil war. I think all of us will ,in the end, be forced to take a side. I have yet to side...part of me sides with ASC/NAS- the promoter and businessman///// the flip side is as a drugfree guy I have waited 11 years for a tested show!

[Garrick Daft]

that's what the post says, but it is not the case. A simple search on the US trademark sites can show otherwise.
Yeah I know I saw that before, ASC applied in February one day before Pfister did. TWI requested that Pfister do this though is what it sounds like.

ASC's Trademark request

Word Mark AMERICA'S STRONGEST MAN
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: ENTERTAINMENT IN THE NATURE OF COMPETITIONS IN THE FIELD OF STRENGTH ATHLETICS AND STRENGTH ENTERTAINMENT. FIRST USE: 20041015. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050316
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77387835
Filing Date February 4, 2008
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) American Strongman Corporation CORPORATION MISSOURI 11676 Mark Twain Ln Bridgeton MISSOURI 63044
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register SUPPLEMENTAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Pfister's Trademark Request

Word Mark AMERICA'S STRONGEST MAN
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, participation in strongman competitions. FIRST USE: 20080131. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20080131
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77389224
Filing Date February 5, 2008
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Pfister Philip G. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 1939 Parkwood Road Charleston WEST VIRGINIA 25314
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

So it seems a battle may come of this on the political end. TWI must know something that they are not telling or something..

[James Deffinbaugh]

that's what the post says, but it is not the case. A simple search on the US trademark sites can show otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_trademark_law
Unregistered trademarks are offered similar protection as registered trademarks. They just need to prove who used it first.

[Ryan Wells]

Just seems pointless to be tested if the next show the winner goes to is untested. I have always been treated fair in nas so sorry if i dont want to spit in thier faces.
Here's a thought that crossed my mind. I'm not taking either side on this on here...

If Phil competes in his own show (and more than likely will win), maybe it is his way of telling the world that he is the only "officially clean" guy that is able to compete at WSM. It could be a political move. If you recall, that original announcement on Ironmind about this "tested show" was within like a week or two after the last WSM. Maybe he is trying to send a message.

Just a thought.

[Ryan Wells]

The exposure will be great for strongman....I disagree with Marshal I think many top names will be at the show.....atleast the ones the that are not worried about getting banned or can't pass the "test".....does that make it a hollow victory since you did not beat the best? Maybe, but the American public will see the ESPN covered show and remember them....just like everyone knows MP/4x WSM and no ones knows ZS/ifsa world champ.......just think of the last 2 Nationals-06/07 was SM or DP victories mean less because a handful of the best guys were not there? They are both National Champs!


Very well put. [Respect]

[James Deffinbaugh]

"North America's Strongest Man" would be just as good, if not better. There is a south America too fellas.
There was a 2007 North America’s Strongest Man. Jessen Paulin won it.

For the last 5 years I( and many others) have worked to not see this division in the sport, but this act here is civil war. I think all of us will ,in the end, be forced to take a side. I have yet to side...part of me sides with ASC/NAS- the promoter and businessman///// the flip side is as a drugfree guy I have waited 11 years for a tested show!
Maybe one day there will be a coop or non-profit entity that everyone can get behind. Monopolies tend to abuse their power.


If Phil competes in his own show (and more than likely will win), maybe it is his way of telling the world that he is the only "officially clean" guy that is able to compete at WSM. It could be a political move. If you recall, that original announcement on Ironmind about this "tested show" was within like a week or two after the last WSM. Maybe he is trying to send a message.
That's a very good point. That's the downside of drug tested contests... some people will assume those that aren't competing are using.

[Billy Wolt]

unless you own stock in one of these "organizations", there is no reason to complain about this event.

Do you think other pro sports look down at there fellow athletes that didn't get drafted from college? Is anyone complaining that lebron james came out of high school and didn't play college ball?

If you have the time, money, and ability, go compete in this show, otherwise, do something else. Why preemptively bash a fellow strongman because he is offered an alternative route instead going through ASC in the US?

[Ryan Wells]

unless you own stock in one of these "organizations", there is no reason to complain about this event.

Do you think other pro sports look down at there fellow athletes that didn't get drafted from college? Is anyone complaining that lebron james came out of high school and didn't play college ball?

If you have the time, money, and ability, go compete in this show, otherwise, do something else. Why preemptively bash a fellow strongman because he is offered an alternative route instead going through ASC in the US?

I agree with taking the high road on this. Let's see how it plays out. Unless you have a crystal ball, you don't know what the outcome will be.

[MarshallWhite]

Hey Marshall, tuck your bottom lip back in son.
You feel better about yourself now?


Chad- It's great to hear from someone who has done it as long as you and is an "inside man" thanks for the post!

[Ryan Wells]

You feel better about yourself now?!
I was hoping for a better reaction than that! :rolleyes:

[MarshallWhite]

I was hoping for a better reaction than that! :rolleyes:
I'm not gonna get into an "internet argument" with you.......again...what I have done speaks for itself. I think this can be a civil discussion without stooping to a 2 year old level.

[Josh Kamins]

Personally, I like how NAS-ASC works. I think that an organized pro system has taken America to the level that its at now where we have multiple athletes ready to challenge the best in the business.

That being said, ASM last year didn't even have all of America's strongest men because they were busy trying to qualify for WSM, whereas ASM was an IFSA qualifier. So, it will be interesting to see who shows up at both of them...

My bigger complaint is that madison square guarden, the two ASMs, a huge team comp, and one other I'm forgetting is all within a month of eachother, and athletes will have to choose between them all, thus weakening the roster of Americans at each one.

[Ryan Wells]

I'm not gonna get into an "internet argument" with you.......again...what I have done speaks for itself. I think this can be a civil discussion without stooping to a 2 year old level.
Just razzin' you dude. You just seem awfully quick to make claims on this or that person being second rate or less than worthy. You seem to pass judgment on others faster than anyone on here. Just an observation.

[Scott Porter]

No disrespect Billy at all, but this statement is completly untrue. Scott and I made several mistakes in 06. And both Justins made minor mistakes in Vegas. Its consistincy, not perfection that wins the national title. In the end there can be only one. I'll see you in a couple weeks.

Off topic from the thread but Jamey is correct.

Just look at Kevin Nowack. He is the definition of consistency. I would say Spybrook is too but he is pretty freaky on some events.

I think the way the pro system is set-up is legitimate. I would say that Nationals is harder to win because you see more quality athletes competing for the pro card.

[dcarroll]

Chad, "BFE", good stuff. I haven't heard that since getting out of the Corps in 83'.

[rob meulenberg]

Just razzin' you dude. You just seem awfully quick to make claims on this or that person being second rate or less than worthy. You seem to pass judgment on others faster than anyone on here. Just an observation.

Not that Marshall needs me to "get his back", but I think he is not trying to put down any amateur out there as much as make a point. If there are so many awesome amateurs out there who could kick some butt in the pro ranks, then how come they don't just waltz into a Platinum Plus show and dominate? I mean anyone who is that good should be able to easily destroy any competition at a NAS contest.

I can't think of many people who have earned an ASC pro card in the last few years that has jumped right in and destroyed the pro ranks. Hatfield and Ortmayer are two of them.

Are there amateurs out there right now that can beat some pros...? Yes, of course. But those pros getting beat by amateurs (myself included) are not the guys who are going to be winning ASM (not yet!)

If you are an amateur who could win ASM (i.e beat Poundstone or Ortmayer, etc.), go to a NAS contest because there is no way you could lose. Didn't Hatfield earn his pro card in style by beating guys like Pfister, Andersen, Gillingham, and Marunde among other only losing to Kirit? That is pretty awesome.

[Jared Enderton]

it's on espn2, and it's drug tested...sweet!!!!!!!

[MarshallWhite]

Not that Marshall needs me to "get his back", but I think he is not trying to put down any amateur out there as much as make a point. If there are so many awesome amateurs out there who could kick some butt in the pro ranks, then how come they don't just waltz into a Platinum Plus show and dominate? I mean anyone who is that good should be able to easily destroy any competition at a NAS contest.

I can't think of many people who have earned an ASC pro card in the last few years that has jumped right in and destroyed the pro ranks. Hatfield and Ortmayer are two of them.

Are there amateurs out there right now that can beat some pros...? Yes, of course. But those pros getting beat by amateurs (myself included) are not the guys who are going to be winning ASM (not yet!)

If you are an amateur who could win ASM (i.e beat Poundstone or Ortmayer, etc.), go to a NAS contest because there is no way you could lose. Didn't Hatfield earn his pro card in style by beating guys like Pfister, Andersen, Gillingham, and Marunde among other only losing to Kirit? That is pretty awesome.
Thanks for "getting my back"....I'm still gonna out deadlift you in Florida! :M: :LOL: Seriously though...this is a very good point.

[rob meulenberg]

Thanks for "getting my back"....I'm still gonna out deadlift you in Florida! :M: :LOL: Seriously though...this is a very good point.

Well I figured that you would need "my back" to beat me at the deadlift! :LOL:

Hey, you do know that two reps at 400# does not beat my one rep at 800#! :EB:

[Stu Christensen]

"North America's Strongest Man" would be just as good, if not better. There is a south America too fellas.
There's also another COUNTRY in there too. ;)

[MarshallWhite]

Well I figured that you would need "my back" to beat me at the deadlift! :LOL:

Hey, you do know that two reps at 400# does not beat my one rep at 800#! :EB:
hahahahahahahahahaha!!!! What about 5 reps with 500? Or how about the 2 with 750 done on Monday? It's on...we'll finish what we started in Idaho! :LOL:

[Barney Shannon]

"North America's Strongest Man" would be just as good, if not better. There is a south America too fellas.

Mexico and Canada are also in North America. Maybe it should be USA's Strongest Man. :LOL:

[Ryan Wells]

Mexico and Canada are also in North America. Maybe it should be USA's Strongest Man. :LOL:
Hey, there you go.

[anton axelsson]

It's branding. It's important for promoting anything. They already do "World's Strongest Man". The natural name for a related contest in the US is "America's Strongest Man". Nothing else would have the same ring to it.

I'm guessing about 1 / 1000 people in the United States have heard of the ASC "America's Strongest Man" contest. Now many, many more people will know of an America's Strongest Man. It's not hurting the sport, it's mildly inconveniencing the very small number of people who are already into the sport, while providing much more coverage of strongman than ASC was ever able to muster.

ASC didn't trademark the name when they should have, years ago. They probably didn't until Phil Pfister and company approached them for an agreement (why else would the trademark dates be just 1 day apart). We don't know who has the biggest case for the name, and how TWI, ESPN, and Phil Pfister came about getting it. Maybe Jim Davis has a legitimate claim to the name and sold it to them. This is all speculation, for all we know ASC was infringing on the trademark for years. You don't need to go through USPTO to establish a trademark.

ASC isn't "the system", it's "a system". Don't forget that. Again, it's a private for-profit entity. Saying a promoter has a duty to go through this private institution to hold a contest is completely ridiculous! That's like saying people shouldn't be allowed to buy a generic MP3 player because it's not an ipod! We're a capitalist society, competition is a part of that.

When you say "pro", you mean "ASC pro". "Professional" means it's your principle employment. If you need to have another job to pay the bills you're not an actual professional. By definition I don't think even Phil Pfister is a 'pro' strongman.

I don't understand why people are so deeply offended about this contest. The name, again, is a mild inconvenience and the courts will decide who really owns it. Are you afraid of competing against people that aren't ASC Pro's, or afraid of the precedence that a drug tested contest might set?

so why would u sit there and try to speculate that im scared?? im never scared to compete against anyone.i simply thank the name is uncalled for and its like kicking dirt in pros face and telling him he isnt beacause here is another contest called ASM that some pros we all know are stronger and better wont do and here is a amature guy claiming a title of being the Amaricas strongest man ya doesnt work for me man id rather earn my way to the top...

and as for espn ya thay air wsm like 3 or 4 times a year you call that great exsposure and doing alot for the sport you dont think this sport deserves way more than that??

[Brad Stanford]

First, I would like to say that the current system is a good system. There is a clear path for someone to rise through the ranks and go as far as their ability and committment will take them. The owners of NAS/ASC have done a tremendous job of promoting the sport, and giving athletes and promoters an organized system in which to compete. However, I don't see anything wrong with an open contest from time to time.

I haven't heard anyone complain about "The Arnold" inviting guys like Brian Siders, Brad Gillingham, Etc. to compete. They never earned an ASC "pro card" and if I'm not mistaken, the top 3 at "The Arnold" get invited to WSM.

I think the real issue here is the drug-testing some people want to get all bent out of shape because someone who works their butt off for years without any "extra help" might get on ESPN before they do.

It's funny how when the ADFPA(the original name of the USAPL for all of you young'uns) got the IPF affiliation, all of the USPF, and APF guys were saying "it should be open to everyone, not just USAPL lifters. The USAPL said "if you want to go to IPF worlds join the USAPL and lift by our rules" some did, and others chose not to for some reason. Now it's the same thing in reverse, it is open to everyone and everybody is saying "no no you have to go by the established system" sort of a double standard IMO

[Jay Hagadorn]

Guys-

This has been a good thread so far. Let's not make implications towards anyone doing or not doing "unmentionables".
Keep it clean and above the belt so that the thread doesn't get shut down...

[Johnathon Conner]

I think the real issue here is the drug-testing some people want to get all bent out of shape because someone who works their butt off for years without any "extra help" might get on ESPN before they do.

One problem i do have with testing is that you cant test for EVERYTHING, just because someone pases a test dosent mean anything. Give the winners a lie detector and i will believe it a little more.

[PeteKonradt]

Earning my pro card was hard. Like anything else that's hard its worth it in the end. I had 3 second place finishes at pro ams before I got my card. One of my favorite quotes I got from Chad Coy about earning a pro card was, "one day your the best amateur and the next day your the worst pro" until you prove yourself in that scene. So I guess I am saying I like the current system. I would hate to see the current pro system abandoned. To me it is a good system.

On the other hand I would have jumped at the chance to compete with the pros as an amateur. While I cant see anyone showing up off the street and just kicking ass I would like to tell all the ams good luck. If one of the ams win they deserve it just like anyone else. A lot of people loose sight of just how hard and specialized this sport has become. I think that someone just coming out of the woodwork being unlikely.

I am disappointed that something couldn't be worked out using the current ASC system. Regardless I think the show will be a success. Knowing that IFSA is basically done and that there is little reason to stay loyal there will be a solid group of competitors that will show up. I can see that people in the ASC may be in hot water with the ASC when they end up competing. Some may just go ahead and risk it to see how it turns out. Who knows how things will shake out.

I hope for a great contest that will promote Strongman in the US. As a competitor I just want to compete and don't like to choose sides. I am willing to compete anywhere if the contest is legit and would either further the sport or earn me a pay day. I believe that anything that furthers the sport is a good idea.

Pete

[Chris Grantano]

Gotta love that attitude, Pete. Well said.

[Kevin Cronin]

One problem i do have with testing is that you cant test for EVERYTHING, just because someone pases a test dosent mean anything. Give the winners a lie detector and i will believe it a little more.
I would actually believe it less. There are ways of beating a lie detector, and there are false positives. Lie detectors cant actually detect whether you're telling a lie they detect an increased heart rate, sweaty palms, i believe a change in your breathing ... all symptoms of lying but also, surprise surprise, symptoms of being nervous when you're hooked up to a bunch of wires and authority figures are asking you questions. I know they have control questions for that, but there are too many nightmare stories for me to put blind faith in it.

I think the real issue here is the drug-testing some people want to get all bent out of shape because someone who works their butt off for years without any "extra help" might get on ESPN before they do.

I get bent out of shape because it divides the sport. Almost without exception the drug-free orgs are a bunch of sanctimonious holier-than-thous. I've never had "extra help" either, just to cut that off.

[Matt Parkes]

Just wanted to get my 3cents in(Thats after I take my 2 Canadian pennies and get them exchanged for 3 American pennies).

Other than the timing and the name of the show I can only see good things for our sport coming out of this show. I do see those 2 things as a slap in the face to NAS/ASC and all the good things it has done for the sport in the US. As an outsider who has been lucky enough to compete and grow under this current system I am upset with the aforementioned problems however....

Phil has managed to put together a contest that will be on ESPN, that is HUGE! Nothing will make this sport grow faster in America than television coverage. The more people that see the sport the more fans it will have. The more fans it has the easier it is to get major corperate sponsorship (Budweiser presents America's Strongest Man). With corporate sponsorship comes what everybody in the pro ranks wants to see more expense and prize money. As far as anybody being able to enter I don't have a problem with it because of the qualifiers. They will whittle down the people who don't belong there and leave you with 10 solid experienced competitors I guarantee it. Maybe most of the top dogs won't be there but the 10 who qualify will not suck. Maybe the weights for the show won't be as heavy as a world class show but I don't think it matters and here's why:

For the last 3 years I have competed in a 'local' contest in Ladysmith 45min north of my home in Victoria. Its always televised on local cable about a month after it takes place. 3 years ago Grant Higa and Tim Nagy came up and did the show with me. 2 years ago they came and also brought Mdub and Jake Miskimins with them. Last year the four of them came and Pete Konradt and Dan Ford also showed up. The point I'm making is that the talent pool got deeper and deeper every year and because of that they increased the weights, guess what. I had just as many people comment on the show saying they had seen me on TV 3 years ago as this last year and we had about 1200-1500 fans each year as well. NOT 1 PERSON ever made a comment on how they noticed that the weights got heavier and more impressive other than my training partners and a few friends. I would call these people experienced and seasoned strongman fans and I would put forth that no novice fan seeing this show on ESPN would notice that the 800lb or 850lb yoke is too lite and should be 880 or 950 or even a 1000lbs for a show of this size. All they know is that 800lbs is F'ing heavy and they wouldn't want that weight on there back. We are a select few who understand where the sport is at and what the top athletes are capable of.

Overall with 10k and a spot to WSM on the line I expect that pros will show up unless ASC pulls an IFSA like move and bans their athletes from doing this comp. I personally hope they don't but because of the name and date of the show I might not blame them if they did.

[Ryan Brown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_trademark_law
Unregistered trademarks are offered similar protection as registered trademarks. They just need to prove who used it first.

I know. The date of first use is stated in the applications that Garrick posted. This is pretty clear cut case. ASC has prior use by several years.

[Jay Hagadorn]

I do not understand where some of the specualtion is coming from.

I believe Willie and Dione Wessels are a class act. They do a great job w/ NAS and ASC.

So this contest is not SANCTIONED. Neither is the Arnold. Neither is WSM. Matter of fact there are more contests than these that are not sanctioned, fairly large and back yard. I seriously doubt Dione would ban anyone from competing if they did this contest, it hasn't happened before.

I think it would have been a good idea to sanction through ASC and NAS, but Phil didn't for some reason.
He IS NOT starting a new federation. He is putting on a contest. It has a huge amount of cash prizes. Cool! This doesn't mean the current system is going to fold (where did anyone see or hear that?)

[chad_coy]

I am gonna have to have all you young guys write down my quotes.....I heard a few this last weekend and thought wow I said that.....when?

If you just set back and look at the $$$$$$.......the biggest purse I remember at a Nationals was $20,000 in 03....in 01 it was $10,000. I think more than a few big names will show upto claim that chunk of change.

As far as ESPN2.....the coverage there with 3-4 prime times a year and 50 @4am shows will be great coverage....much better than the last 4 Nats( no coverage) and better than 02 and 03 which were on only a few times on FOX.

Drug testing...by not doing the show -I don't think that implies you can't pass a test...it just means you have made a choice...I know many that are loyal to the ASC/NAS system that won't do the show out of respect for how they came up....many of us old guys that have lived through the AFSA/NSAA/IFSA-USA and now NAS/ASC may look at it from a different angle.......I feel old at this point cause I was there when the current system was created and I don't want to see it changed...it works.....

This is a first time show, by a first time promoter ...remember first and foremost this is for TV....If it does not look good and get good ratings it won't last.....NAS/ASC will still be here...hopefully forgiveness will be granted quickly for those that cross the line!

[Barry Perkins]

this is very interesting thread...some great points....here's my two cents...

It's an open contest...not a "pro" contest...
just like a Gayle Schroeder Show..or some of the other guys that do some shows for money and happens to have some exposure ...by the network ALL of us have watched for 20 some years and enjoyed WSM...

I don't think the guys that are looking at doing this contest are thinking..."wow..cool..i can be called america's strongest man...I can't wait..." they are saying....wow...$10 gees...ESPN..WSM....TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!...the name is almost irrelevant except to ASC who has a legitimate beef about it..

The current system that we use is well organized and consistent

I've competed for 4 years now..over 25 contests....have my share of hardware....but don't have too many years left in my bones.....if I have a shot to go to a contest like this and make a run at it...at the least..be on ESPN...(which is still a long shot)
I can hang up my chalk bag..and call it a day...LOL....

the down side....unfortunately..is the whole "political" thing....it's ashame we have this ...but that's life....
the every day joe who watches this contest...will not know..that the guy pressing 300lbs overhead...is not a pro...all he will know..is "dang dude...that's 300lbs..."

keep in mind people....although some of us are "weak" relatively speaking....most of us that are in this sport are stronger than 90-95% of the world's population...

if anything ..this has made some great conversation...and an intersting ..heated..but good fun thread... :FF:

[Matt Parkes]

I do not understand where some of the specualtion is coming from.

I believe Willie and Dione Wessels are a class act. They do a great job w/ NAS and ASC.

So this contest is not SANCTIONED. Neither is the Arnold. Neither is WSM. Matter of fact there are more contests than these that are not sanctioned, fairly large and back yard. I seriously doubt Dione would ban anyone from competing if they did this contest, it hasn't happened before.

I think it would have been a good idea to sanction through ASC and NAS, but Phil didn't for some reason.
He IS NOT starting a new federation. He is putting on a contest. It has a huge amount of cash prizes. Cool! This doesn't mean the current system is going to fold (where did anyone see or hear that?)

I think the name and the timing of it appear to be at least shot accross the bow of ASC if not a direct shot. The Arnold and other big contests are independant the same as this but they aren't scheduled around the same time as the biggest ASC show there is and then also use the same name.

[Barry Perkins]

OH Chad...by the way...

I stopped by your gym last wednesday.... apparently though...you weren't in...awesome place....Mark K said to say hello..as well...

barry

[Jay Hagadorn]

This is a first time show, by a first time promoter ...remember first and foremost this is for TV....If it does not look good and get good ratings it won't last.....NAS/ASC will still be here...hopefully forgiveness will be granted quickly for those that cross the line!

It's one show, not a sanctioning body. And what about this forgiveness, what is there to forgive, you're giving everyone an out LOL...

Oh I C Chad, your psyching everyone out so that you can show up and take the money :eek:

[Jay Hagadorn]

I think the name and the timing of it appear to be at least shot accross the bow of ASC if not a direct shot. The Arnold and other big contests are independant the same as this but they aren't scheduled around the same time as the biggest ASC show there is and then also use the same name.

Gotcha Matt, makes sense. Maybe Phil did this just to make his stance on the drug testing...

[chad_coy]

Barry let me know when you are coming next and you can get next door to the real fun stuff! Tell old 9 fingers he is old and skinny, but I have a spot held for him at our Masters Pro show on the 7-5!

Jay if my training was perfect/I was 100% healthy/ the stars were in line and/ and I took a bat to guys like KG/MP/DO I might have a shot at the top spot. It is not a new Fed, but it does hurt the current system.If one of my trainers left and started something in my backyard Grace would be tough!

NAS and a proving grounds is the best thing....look what we have gotten from it....TO/DO/DP/SM/VH.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Barry let me know when you are coming next and you can get next door to the real fun stuff! Tell old 9 fingers he is old and skinny, but I have a spot held for him at our Masters Pro show on the 7-5!

Jay if my training was perfect/I was 100% healthy/ the stars were in line and/ and I took a bat to guys like KG/MP/DO I might have a shot at the top spot. It is not a new Fed, but it does hurt the current system.If one of my trainers left and started something in my backyard Grace would be tough!

NAS and a proving grounds is the best thing....look what we have gotten from it....TO/DO/DP/SM/VH.

I gotcha Chad. But, the payday goes down 10 spots. You've been waiting 11 years...
BTW I'm not picking at you Chad, I have much respect for you...
I agree w/ you about the NAS proving grounds by the way.

[Barry Perkins]

Barry let me know when you are coming next and you can get next door to the real fun stuff! Tell old 9 fingers he is old and skinny, but I have a spot held for him at our Masters Pro show on the 7-5!

Jay if my training was perfect/I was 100% healthy/ the stars were in line and/ and I took a bat to guys like KG/MP/DO I might have a shot at the top spot. It is not a new Fed, but it does hurt the current system.If one of my trainers left and started something in my backyard Grace would be tough!

NAS and a proving grounds is the best thing....look what we have gotten from it....TO/DO/DP/SM/VH.


yeh..."nine fingers" is a skinny runt these days....mister mom...sold all his equipment...lol..

I just happen to be in town for business that day..over in edinburgh...had time to kill..so called mark up and he gave me the number to the gym...and I wondered where you had the equipment hidden..lol..
I'll def...let ya know..

[Chris Grantano]

M-Dub-
with all due; even if John Q Barcolounger shows up and takes this thing, then goes on to WSM and gets buried, doesn't that LEGITIMIZE the sport, and indeed, the current system? It's kind of like watching the Little League World Series on TV and saying that they mock the MLB World Champs. No, they share the same sport, at a differing level. The sanctioning body is worth the reverence and respect that it earns. ASC and NAS represent a level of consistency within itself. You can be sure that if you enter a sanctioned event, there won't be a lawn darts event. You (hopefully) won't have a vagrant promoter that hits the bricks with your entry fee, etc. There will be at least a modicom of consistency concerning records, or officiating etc. But if a competitor sways to another org/show, he takes his own chances (and he has every right to do so). If Danny enters and wins, the public will know that he was the best at those given events at that given time. Pretty much all you can hope from any single contest on any given day, despite any prior accomplishments. Does that make any sense?

[chad_coy]

Jay...I understand......maybe ...if I can rehab a partial tear in my quad...I will just do both? I have been married for almost 16 years how bad could my punishment be if I step out of line?

Barry....on Wed I am in Fort Wayne at our 2nd club.....I train on T/F/SAT 5am-7:30am let me know if you are coming this way and I will get you squared away!

[Matt Stiefel]

Just wanted to get my 3cents in(Thats after I take my 2 Canadian pennies and get them exchanged for 3 American pennies).




That's hitting way below the belt. Totally uncalled for. We're supposed to make fun of your currency (which still looks like play money even if it's worth more), not the other way around.

I say ban him! :D

[Barney Shannon]

I do not understand where some of the specualtion is coming from.

I believe Willie and Dione Wessels are a class act. They do a great job w/ NAS and ASC.

So this contest is not SANCTIONED. Neither is the Arnold. Neither is WSM. Matter of fact there are more contests than these that are not sanctioned, fairly large and back yard. I seriously doubt Dione would ban anyone from competing if they did this contest, it hasn't happened before.

I think it would have been a good idea to sanction through ASC and NAS, but Phil didn't for some reason.
He IS NOT starting a new federation. He is putting on a contest. It has a huge amount of cash prizes. Cool! This doesn't mean the current system is going to fold (where did anyone see or hear that?)

I agree with everything that Jay just said. I think that people have a problem with the name. Kind of like us Catholics have with calling gay marriage "marriage". Call it a civil union and we don't have as much of a problem. :IMHO:

[Jared Enderton]

and as for espn ya thay air wsm like 3 or 4 times a year you call that great exsposure and doing alot for the sport you dont think this sport deserves way more than that??

they air it WAAAY more than 3 or 4 times per year. way way more.

[Jared Enderton]

I have to agree with everything Matt Parkes said. good stuff!

[Mike Landrich]

Mexico and Canada are also in North America. Maybe it should be USA's Strongest Man. :LOL:


Plus there are several islands (Miquelon and St Pierre are the 2 big ones) in the Gulf of St Lawrence that are French, so actually there are actually 4 countries in North America.

[Barney Shannon]

So .. if it was called The USA Open Strongman Championship, we all would have no problem with it? :cool:

[Mike Landrich]

So .. if it was called The USA Open Strongman Championship, we all would have no problem with it? :cool:


I say American is just fine for anything in the US. We are the only country with "America" in our full name, so it just makes sense. But as for the Pfister vs the Wessels aspect, I'm staying out of that one.

[Brad Stanford]

I support NAS/ASC and the current system 100% and i truely hope that strongman never becomes the alphabet soup that powerlifting has become. Some of you young guys may not realize that it wasn't always the way it is now. But, like it has been pointed out, this is not a new Fed, it's 1 contest, just like the "Arnold" or Fortissimus(sp?)

If IFSA is in as much trouble as it appears to be, I would really love to see ASC affiliate itself with WSM. That would clear up a lot of the controversy.

[craig kruse]

What is the typical payout for HW Pro's at current contest? $10K for the winner is huge in my opinion.

[Barney Shannon]

I say American is just fine for anything in the US. We are the only country with "America" in our full name, so it just makes sense.

For a second there I thought that you were going to say "we are the only country that counts". :D

[MarshallWhite]

M-Dub-
with all due; even if John Q Barcolounger shows up and takes this thing, then goes on to WSM and gets buried, doesn't that LEGITIMIZE the sport, and indeed, the current system? It's kind of like watching the Little League World Series on TV and saying that they mock the MLB World Champs. No, they share the same sport, at a differing level. The sanctioning body is worth the reverence and respect that it earns. ASC and NAS represent a level of consistency within itself. You can be sure that if you enter a sanctioned event, there won't be a lawn darts event. You (hopefully) won't have a vagrant promoter that hits the bricks with your entry fee, etc. There will be at least a modicom of consistency concerning records, or officiating etc. But if a competitor sways to another org/show, he takes his own chances (and he has every right to do so). If Danny enters and wins, the public will know that he was the best at those given events at that given time. Pretty much all you can hope from any single contest on any given day, despite any prior accomplishments. Does that make any sense?
I'm just saying that going outside the current system while using the name and placing so close to ASM is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who have honored that system...maybe like Jay said Phil is doing it to show his stance on drug testing I don't know. As of right now it's looking like it is shaping up to be the 1992 version of "America's Strongest Man" , which was open I believe, I think Phillipi, and Gillingham are confirmed, now all we need is Jim Vronin, Chief Iron Bear, Ken Brown, Tommy Inglesbee, and all the other "old school american strongmen" and the line-up will be set! Whatever....I hope it works out for the best and like Pete said I wish something could have been done to make this go through our system....but I do not think some "out of the woods" am is going to win, as of right now I'd bet on Gillingham, who would be going to WSM anyways!

[Mike Landrich]

For a second there I thought that you were going to say "we are the only country that counts". :D


At least someone can read between the lines :M:

[anton axelsson]

they air it WAAAY more than 3 or 4 times per year. way way more.
ok maybe 3 or 4 times was kinda outrageous but there are only about 6 full virsions of it
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/broadcast.html

and do you think that is enough why shouldnt we get bettre exsposure just like anyother sport...

NAS and ASC have my loyalty as well

[Barney Shannon]

ok maybe 3 or 4 times was kinda outrageous but there are only about 6 full virsions of it
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/broadcast.html

and do you think that is enough why shouldnt we get bettre exsposure just like anyother sport...

NAS and ASC have my loyalty as well

Strongman has a very small fan base just like my other great love wrestling. No way will they ever be able to compete with football, basketball or baseball for equal air time in the USA. The only regular joe that I've met that knows anything about strongman is a transitional deacon at my church and he's from Poland. I've yet to meet a regular joe that knows anything about wrestling.

[Jared Enderton]

Strongman has a very small fan base just like my other great love wrestling. No way will they ever be able to compete with football, basketball or baseball for equal air time in the USA. The only regular joe that I've met that knows anything about strongman is a transitional deacon at my church and he's from Poland. I've yet to meet a regular joe that knows anything about wrestling.

you nailed it. it makes no sense for a TV station to air something that gets half the ratings other shows do. i'm not sure it gets half but it obviously does not get as much as others or it would be on air more!!!!

[Billy Wolt]

I wish something could have been done to make this go through our system....


if companies thought the same, we would all be stuck with Microsoft. but look at MS and Apple, they are kinda playing nice now...

open competition, more feds, are fine and all, as long as the political stuff stays out of it allowing the best of the best to compete against each other.

I wish all contests were open, and maybe promoters could just work together to create a round a qualifying events to figure out who the top guys are.

for the amatuer athlete, the current system has flaws...I competed in one contest in the last 10 months. It cost me x amount of dollars to compete, and x amount of dollars to get my nas registration. I have no idea if i'm still registered with nas. When i did my first contest over 2 years ago, i didn't get my registration card for 6-7 months.

If i have to pay to play, at least get me my registration sooner, and then send me an application to reapply since it's going to expire in a month, or something. I know Willie and Dione are busy, but keeping in touch with your customers is pretty basic I think.

[dronga]

10 characters

[Matt Parkes]

I wish all contests were open, and maybe promoters could just work together to create a round a qualifying events to figure out who the top guys are. .

As far as I know all the NAS shows are open and the ASC shows do have qualifying events to figure out who the top guys are, they're the NAS platinum/pro am shows. Having qualifying rounds before each big show means promoters need access to the venue for at least 1 more day, athletes have to take another day off work and then athletes aren't at 100% for the day of the real show.


for the amatuer athlete, the current system has flaws...I competed in one contest in the last 10 months. It cost me x amount of dollars to compete, and x amount of dollars to get my nas registration. I have no idea if i'm still registered with nas. When i did my first contest over 2 years ago, i didn't get my registration card for 6-7 months.

If i have to pay to play, at least get me my registration sooner, and then send me an application to reapply since it's going to expire in a month, or something. I know Willie and Dione are busy, but keeping in touch with your customers is pretty basic I think.

That's a valid complaint and maybe this is an area where open 'backyard shows' can be utilized. If you're somebody who only competes once a year and has no aspirations to go pro or turn strongman into a lifestyle then I can see the benifit of competing in some unafiliated shows. It gives you a chance to compete which I'm assuming you do like to do and since its unafilliated there may even be oppourtunities to win a little bit of money without the 'amature' tag being applied to it.

As I've stated before I think the current system while it does have some flaws is producing top level strongmen faster than any other in the world. That being said any unafiliated or open shows can only help the sport as well as they get more people watching and as most of you know once people watch this sport they become a fan of this sport. It is however importantI think, that any promoter who wants to put on a show that is its own entity not take a direct shot at our current system as thats how divisions are made and we've all seen how well that has worked for us in the past.

[Chris Carroll]

It is however importantI think, that any promoter who wants to put on a show that is its own entity not take a direct shot at our current system as thats how divisions are made and we've all seen how well that has worked for us in the past.
I may have missed it, but has anyone spoke directly with the parties in question? Has anyone asked Phil Pfister why he named his contest the same as the ASC contest? Just wondering :confused: Maybe it would help to clear up alot of the speculation.

[Billy Wolt]

I may have missed it, but has anyone spoke directly with the parties in question? Has anyone asked Phil Pfister why he named his contest the same as the ASC contest? Just wondering :confused: Maybe it would help to clear up alot of the speculation.


there is no place here for you and your logic......you're not welcome here :D

[anton axelsson]

Strongman has a very small fan base just like my other great love wrestling. No way will they ever be able to compete with football, basketball or baseball for equal air time in the USA. The only regular joe that I've met that knows anything about strongman is a transitional deacon at my church and he's from Poland. I've yet to meet a regular joe that knows anything about wrestling.
yes and how do u think we build a stronger fan base??? by telavising contests and espn should step up and help out with that ofcourse we dont have a fan base beacause we dont have anything to build off of now if espn got in the game the sport would beacome much bigger... and now phil wants to put on a asm contest drug free then espn2 is all for it and promotes it hummm

[Chris Carroll]

there is no place here for you and your logic......your not welcome here :D
I knew that would get me in trouble :LOL:

[Kevin Cronin]

ok maybe 3 or 4 times was kinda outrageous but there are only about 6 full virsions of it
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/broadcast.html

and do you think that is enough why shouldnt we get bettre exsposure just like anyother sport...

NAS and ASC have my loyalty as well
Because we DO NOT HAVE THE RATINGS TO JUSTIFY IT. It boggles my mind when people speak of what strength athletes "deserve." Television exposure and popularity are not rights, and they are not inalienable commodities to be shared by all. NFL salaries are justified by the BILLIONS that those athletes make their owners by producing a product that rakes in those jersey sales, tv ratings (followed by ad sales,) game attendance at $70 a pop minimum plus the concessions, parking, etc.

When was the last time that strongman generated that much revenue?

This is not some conspiracy by espn to keep us down, if they thought it would be economically feasible to broadcast strongman more often, they would. Apparently they DO think there's a shot at that (the economic feasibility of greater coverage) but not surprisingly, they are treading carefully, likely adding only this one show, and that show being done with a guy they already know/have a relationship/contact with in Phil.

EDIT to add: espn is not a charitable entity that "should step up and help" us. They are a business entity. Their sole responsibility is to return a profit for their investors (while adhering to minumum standards of conduct like no child labor, honest accounting, etc.) espn2 is promoting phil's contest? where? I havent seen any of that. they'll be broadcasting it, but if I see a single ad for it - on television - before the broadcast, or after it for that matter, I'll eat my hat.

[Jake Peeterse]

I think that one of the issues here that is being overlooked is that for a big time sponser to really get involved in this sport it going to have to be in "tested" shows. I mean if ESPN is attaching their name to something then they are by default agreeing with the rules of that sport. In addition the prize money at this event will almost guarentee at least 10 high quality guys to compete, which means it will be good TV, not two or three guys completely dominating the field. Just my thoughts.

[Barney Shannon]

yes and how do u think we build a stronger fan base??? by telavising contests and espn should step up and help out with that ofcourse we dont have a fan base beacause we dont have anything to build off of now if espn got in the game the sport would beacome much bigger... and now phil wants to put on a asm contest drug free then espn2 is all for it and promotes it hummm

The bottom line (no pun intended :D ) is that football, basketball, baseball, golf (Tiger Woods!) generate more revenue for ESPN then strongman. ESPN is in the business to make money for their stockholders after all.

[dronga]

The bottom line (no pun intended :D ) is that football, basketball, baseball, golf (Tiger Woods!) generate more revenue for ESPN then strongman. ESPN is in the business to make money for their stockholders after all.


This is a valid point, but then why show spelling bee's? There is no fan base there.
Barney, this is not directed towards you, just the point that has been stated that WSM does not get alot of air time because of popularity.

[Barney Shannon]

This is a valid point, but then why show spelling bee's?

Do they really show alot of spelling bees on ESPN? I only see that National Spelling bee thing like once a year. I see the WSM on ESPN or ESPN2 pretty often around here. Unfortunatly they also show Poker (sorry NOT a sport) quite often around here too but I guess that it probably also has a higher fan base then strongman. If I was king, I'd have a station that showed Greco-Roman, Freestyle and Folkstyle Wrestling, Powerlifting, Olympic Weightlifting AND Strongman 24 hours a day. :cool:

[Corey DuCharme]

I can't believe I read the whole thing.........................just posting to keep updated.

[Kevin Cronin]

I think that one of the issues here that is being overlooked is that for a big time sponser to really get involved in this sport it going to have to be in "tested" shows. I mean if ESPN is attaching their name to something then they are by default agreeing with the rules of that sport.
WSM is untested, it's on espn and I would consider Met-Rx, the title sponsor, to be a big sponsor.

This is a valid point, but then why show spelling bee's? There is no fan base there.
Barney, this is not directed towards you, just the point that has been stated that WSM does not get alot of air time because of popularity.
While none of us are privy to the exact numbers involved in all this, I refuse to believe that espn would be contributing more resources towards a less profitable enterprise - what i mean to say is that whether or not the spelling bee is broadcast more or less than WSM, whether or not strongman is more popular than spelling bees, it is clearly more profitable for espn to broadcast the spelling bees at the times that tehy do than it would be to broadcast strongman at those times.

One thing that hasnt been addressed is the cost to espn to broadcast these shows. Several comments have been made to the effect that espn "does" wsm, with the implication being that espn puts on the contest. They dont, they broadcast it, the same way bbc broadcasts it in the uk. I am guessing that espn does have its own production team since (i believe) kaz isnt on the bbc production. But it costs espn money - in the form of wages to teh camera men, commentators, the guys who cut the raw footage shot, etc - just to have a raw product to shop around to advertisers. That is in ADDITION to the money that they (I believe) pay to TWI (if they are indeed still the ones putting on the contest) for the rights to broadcast the contest. TWI spends money on airfare, hotel, (for both competitors and those who work the contest, judge teh contest, etc I'm guessing) equipment - especially the cost to ship as we see with IFSA - and any other number of expenses. Met-Rx sponsors wsm, but I wouldnt be surprised if that were limited solely to prize money. So after all those expenses TWI needs to charge espn and bbc a broadcasting fee commensurate to them (twi) making a profit.

Now think about the expenses involved in a spelling bee - is the travel/hotel for the competitors covered? Are the cash prizes as large? Is corporate sponsorship greater? Even if ESPN can get twice teh advertising money from a broadcast of wsm as it could from a bee, if it costs them 4 times as much to produce, does it make sense to broadcast wsm or a spelling bee? I dont know the answers to those questions, and I certainly dont want them to be taken as rhetorical, but I DO believe that they could contribute to espn's occasional preference for spelling bees over strongman.

[Billy Wolt]

what commercials do you see over and over during WSM...Met-RX. If more sponsors are willing to put up commercials during the airing of the show, then i'm sure that ESPN would run it more.

From my experience with tv ads, many advertisers would just commit to a certain budget for a certain amout of spots daily. The network would then show the commercials based on where there is a need to fill spots, that is why you sometimes see the same commecial 2+ times during the same block.

Also, if an advertiser wants the commercial during a specific program, then that costs more $$.

to make it short, if more companies commit $$$ to advertise during strength events, you would see more strength events.

[Kevin Cronin]

to make it short, if more companies commit $$$ to advertise during strength events, you would see more strength events.
Now take that next step ... WHY dont they commit more $$? Cuz the viewership isnt there. Is that because most people really dont find it as fascinating as we do? Heck, I had someone tell me last night "oh you compete in strongman? I love that stuff, I watch it whenever it's on" but their words belie their actions. For all the peopel you know who have told you that tehy "love" strongman, how many have done a simple google search to find out more about the athletes or the shows? Heck, even me, I was lucky to stumble onto Brad Cardoza's picture thread on t-mag. I PMed him, got NAS's website and I was set ... but that was dumb luck

There is a chicken-and-the-egg aspect to all of this in that its difficult to speculate as to whether more cash would lead to more viewers, or whether more viewers are necessary prior to getting that cash, But it's not the job of ESPN or the general population to suddenly realize what a great product strongman is, it has to be packaged and sold

[Billy Wolt]

Now take that next step ... WHY dont they commit more $$? Cuz the viewership isnt there. Is that because most people really dont find it as fascinating as we do? Heck, I had someone tell me last night "oh you compete in strongman? I love that stuff, I watch it whenever it's on" but their words belie their actions. For all the peopel you know who have told you that tehy "love" strongman, how many have done a simple google search to find out more about the athletes or the shows? Heck, even me, I was lucky to stumble onto Brad Cardoza's picture thread on t-mag. I PMed him, got NAS's website and I was set ... but that was dumb luck

There is a chicken-and-the-egg aspect to all of this in that its difficult to speculate as to whether more cash would lead to more viewers, or whether more viewers are necessary prior to getting that cash, But it's not the job of ESPN or the general population to suddenly realize what a great product strongman is, it has to be packaged and sold

true....but when you do you ever see supplement companies advertise on tv? only met-rx, 99% of it is during WSM.

advertising is fairly cheap on something like espn2. it might cost an advertiser $30 to put a spot on a non-prime time event. I think companies need to do their part in order to get it on tv.

ever see K1 on espn2...all the commercials are the same 5 sponsors.

[Elliot_Storey]

Now take that next step ... WHY dont they commit more $$? Cuz the viewership isnt there. Is that because most people really dont find it as fascinating as we do? Heck, I had someone tell me last night "oh you compete in strongman? I love that stuff, I watch it whenever it's on" but their words belie their actions. For all the peopel you know who have told you that tehy "love" strongman, how many have done a simple google search to find out more about the athletes or the shows? Heck, even me, I was lucky to stumble onto Brad Cardoza's picture thread on t-mag. I PMed him, got NAS's website and I was set ... but that was dumb luck

There is a chicken-and-the-egg aspect to all of this in that its difficult to speculate as to whether more cash would lead to more viewers, or whether more viewers are necessary prior to getting that cash, But it's not the job of ESPN or the general population to suddenly realize what a great product strongman is, it has to be packaged and sold

I am starting to find that the amateur competitions are the way to get more people interested in strongman. I may be an anomaly in Maine because I am a relatively big fish in a relatively small pond, but I have more and more people everyday (some I don't even know) coming up and having a conversation about strongman with me - whether they went to my competition last year, or saw it on ESPN recently and know I compete, or they saw my youtube page, even if they just want to know about my training in general. The fact that I started promoting contests in the area has seemed to spark a great deal of interest that otherwise wasn't there or wasn't made public before. I guess what I'm saying is that it has to happen from the ground up. Get people interested on the local level and a "Trickle Up" effect should follow.

[SBaier]

"advertising is fairly cheap on something like espn2. it might cost an advertiser $30 to put a spot on a non-prime time event."

You might want to recheck that number!

[Billy Wolt]

"advertising is fairly cheap on something like espn2. it might cost an advertiser $30 to put a spot on a non-prime time event."

You might want to recheck that number!


i don't need to recheck. I worked for a company that had tv ads....it all comes down to the demographics your targeting, which markets, and what programming or time slots.

tv commecials are fairly cheap unless your targeting a major network prime time event.

[Kevin Cronin]

I am starting to find that the amateur competitions are the way to get more people interested in strongman. I may be an anomaly in Maine because I am a relatively big fish in a relatively small pond, but I have more and more people everyday (some I don't even know) coming up and having a conversation about strongman with me - whether they went to my competition last year, or saw it on ESPN recently and know I compete, or they saw my youtube page, even if they just want to know about my training in general. The fact that I started promoting contests in the area has seemed to spark a great deal of interest that otherwise wasn't there or wasn't made public before. I guess what I'm saying is that it has to happen from the ground up. Get people interested on the local level and a "Trickle Up" effect should follow.
agree 100%


Edit to add
true....but when you do you ever see supplement companies advertise on tv? only met-rx, 99% of it is during WSM.

advertising is fairly cheap on something like espn2. it might cost an advertiser $30 to put a spot on a non-prime time event. I think companies need to do their part in order to get it on tv.

ever see K1 on espn2...all the commercials are the same 5 sponsors.

not sure I get your point here billy ... met-rx is the only supp sponsor and i woudl agree that the only advertising of theirs i see on tv is wsm, but so what?

I definitely dont understand why companies ahve to "step up" as if this is a question of them 'doing their part' or something. It's probably more profitable for tehm to just put an ad in flex or something. And I've never seen K1 on espn, so I guess theres another fringe sport that feels under-represented

[Grant Buhr]

Perhaps things are done differently in the US...as I understand it, here in Canada, if we want to get CSM aired on TSN (our version of ESPN), WE have to pay TSN for the privilege of airing the show, provide them the show neatly packaged and produced, and sell the ad time ourselves to finance the cost. That is why the same ads will air during the broadcasts. TSN (or ESPN) would grant the use of their logo, but would contribute nothing themselves but the time slot. We have to arrange and pay for the production crew as well as the post-production costs.

[Billy Wolt]

not sure I get your point here billy ... met-rx is the only supp sponsor and i woudl agree that the only advertising of theirs i see on tv is wsm, but so what?

I definitely dont understand why companies ahve to "step up" as if this is a question of them 'doing their part' or something. It's probably more profitable for tehm to just put an ad in flex or something. And I've never seen K1 on espn, so I guess theres another fringe sport that feels under-represented

Being such a small sport, who do we have to rely on for advertisers....beer companies, or something related (supplements, equipment, etc).

In order to get on tv more, related industries would have to get involved. unless turn outs at events increases dramatically, i don't see any other advertisers from unrelated industries stepping up to support this sport.

obvioulsy getting involved and trying to grow a sport is not the goal of supplement or equipment manufacturers...but maybe that's why the sport is small.

I bet Elliot busts his but promoting his contests....but if i had product that targeted a small group, you can bet your #@$ that i'm gonna do my best to help get more involvement.

[Billy Wolt]

Perhaps things are done differently in the US...as I understand it, here in Canada, if we want to get CSM aired on TSN (our version of ESPN), WE have to pay TSN for the privilege of airing the show, provide them the show neatly packaged and produced, and sell the ad time ourselves to finance the cost. That is why the same ads will air during the broadcasts. TSN (or ESPN) would grant the use of their logo, but would contribute nothing themselves but the time slot. We have to arrange and pay for the production crew as well as the post-production costs.


the same could be true here...but we would need our governing body to start producing shows from contests.

[Ryan Brown]

I support NAS/ASC and the current system 100% and i truely hope that strongman never becomes the alphabet soup that powerlifting has become. Some of you young guys may not realize that it wasn't always the way it is now. But, like it has been pointed out, this is not a new Fed, it's 1 contest, just like the "Arnold" or Fortissimus(sp?)

If IFSA is in as much trouble as it appears to be, I would really love to see ASC affiliate itself with WSM. That would clear up a lot of the controversy.

I agree with you on not wanting to see a splintering of the sport. I also agree this is only one contest so think it is a bit overblown for those to act like this one contest is a new fed.

One clarification though--ASC is not an arm of IFSA or the WSM/Super Series. It is its own entity. ASC athletes regularly compete in both IFSA events, the WSM and Super Series events. For that matter, ASC athletes have competed in United Strongman Series Contests, World Cup contests, independent contests, etc. Which contests the particular ASC athlete does is largely the athlete's decision and the decision of those doing the invites, if the contest requires invites. ASC supports both types of contests. Willie and Dione are regularly attending and helping to run both IFSA type contests and Super Series type contests. Some on this board act as if ASC is simply IFSA in the USA or something.

[Ryan Brown]

the same could be true here...but we would need our governing body to start producing shows from contests.

they have done this Billy and are continuing to try to do it. It is a growth process. There was an entire series of shows in Fox before. Shows have been on Vs., etc.

[anton axelsson]

so prutty much what you are saying kevin is that strongman doesnt deserve a spot on tv beacause we dont have a big enough fan base and the rateings wouldnt be good well who is to say that if espn put us out there and helped out a little by giveing us a spot that ouer fan base wouldnt increase and the rateings would go up and just for the record i never implied that strongman was or should be bigger than football and so on and should get more tv time than those sports do but simply give it a chance and air strongman as a possitive image drug free or not most people are smart enough and know that guys dont get that big and strong on their own some do im not saying that but most dont strongman shouldnt be over looked and givin a chance

[Brandon R.]

One clarification though--ASC is not an arm of IFSA or the WSM/Super Series. It is its own entity. ASC athletes regularly compete in both IFSA events, the WSM and Super Series events. For that matter, ASC athletes have competed in United Strongman Series Contests, World Cup contests, independent contests, etc. Which contests the particular ASC athlete does is largely the athlete's decision and the decision of those doing the invites, if the contest requires invites. ASC supports both types of contests. Willie and Dione are regularly attending and helping to run both IFSA type contests and Super Series type contests. Some on this board act as if ASC is simply IFSA in the USA or something.

Thay may help both WSM and Ifsa type shows, but can you blame people for thinking that its just an IFSA affiliate when on its ABOUT ASC page says:


About ASC

On November 9, 2004, American Pro Strongman's rebirth was completed. IFSA, the world governing body for professional strongman, selected long-time strongman competitor and promoter Dione Wessels as the representative for its interests in the United States.

The American Strongman Corporation (ASC), created and named by Wessels, is the governing body of pro strongman in the United States.
ASC is based in St. Louis, Missouri and overseas annual events such as the Arnold Classic and the U.S. National Qualifiers and National Championship known as America’s Strongest Man.

ASC is the sole sanctioning body for professional strongmen in the United States and has certified such great events as The Snowman Challenge, The Fit Expo Strongman Challenge, The Kansas City Pro-Am, Hawaii's Strongest Man, Mountaineer Strongman Championship, Utah's Strongest Man and the Strongest Man on Grand competition, and America’s Strongest Man which has ran each year consecutively since 2004.

Or when more than a third of the competitions on their results page say they were sponsored by IFSA?

That can send out mixed messages.


EDIT: just noticed this on their home page: ASC is the sole sanctioning body for IFSA in the United States

[Ryan Brown]

Now take that next step ... WHY dont they commit more $$? Cuz the viewership isnt there. Is that because most people really dont find it as fascinating as we do? Heck, I had someone tell me last night "oh you compete in strongman? I love that stuff, I watch it whenever it's on" but their words belie their actions. For all the peopel you know who have told you that tehy "love" strongman, how many have done a simple google search to find out more about the athletes or the shows? Heck, even me, I was lucky to stumble onto Brad Cardoza's picture thread on t-mag. I PMed him, got NAS's website and I was set ... but that was dumb luck

There is a chicken-and-the-egg aspect to all of this in that its difficult to speculate as to whether more cash would lead to more viewers, or whether more viewers are necessary prior to getting that cash, But it's not the job of ESPN or the general population to suddenly realize what a great product strongman is, it has to be packaged and sold

I think it is a little more complicated than how enjoyable people might find the show. Enjoying the show doesn't sell product, necessarily.

I think a lot of the key to advertising is to decide is there a big enough audience out there that will want to buy the items being advertised. It seems this is how advertising works for small nitch type sports. This is different from big market sports like football where the advertising is more generic because the audience is so large--i.e. coke, ford trucks, etc.

I often hear things like "how is it that poker is on ESPN?" I think it is because tons of people in this country play poker; the advertisers for that site are essentially paid gambling sites--i.e. partypoker.net is the advertiser, but partypoker.com is a place where all of these at home poker players can go blow their money.

Another example is bass fishing or something--there are lots of people that do that stuff. Advertisers are rod/reel companies, boats, etc. These are expensive products that a lot of people go buy to do the sport.

Strongman on the other hand is cool to watch, but is the advertising getting extra product purchased? I don't know that the avg. guy watching strongman ever contemplates that he could actually do it himself. He probably is a 150 lb guy who finds it cool, but never thinks about buying the stuff that is advertised because he doesn't relate.


I think there is a business model there, but it is not as easy as people might would think. It is being worked on for sure.

[Ryan Brown]

Thay may help both WSM and Ifsa type shows, but can you blame people for thinking that its just an IFSA affiliate when on its ABOUT ASC page says:



Or when more than a third of the competitions on their results page say they were sponsored by IFSA?

That can send out mixed messages.


EDIT: just noticed this on their home page:


This is true; they are the IFSA affiliate for the United States. That's how IFSA works. They have affiliated entities in various countries, but they are separate entities--contractual; not IFSA in the USA. So yes, ASC is IFSA's affiliate in the USA. That is a nice thing to be so it makes sense to so state that on the site. Without this affiliation it would be harder for American athletes to get into IFSA contests. As it is, the USA has many slots at IFSA Worlds, etc.

This does not mean that ASC is only IFSA's affiliate. Like I said above, some ASC athletes typically compete in IFSA. Some typically compete in the Super Series. Some do primarily ASC shows--pro-ams and such.

As for more than 1/3 of the contests being IFSA, that means that almost 2/3 are not IFSA going with your numbers.

[Brandon R.]

This is true; they are the IFSA affiliate for the United States. That's how IFSA works. They have affiliated entities in various countries, but they are separate entities--contractual; not IFSA in the USA. So yes, ASC is IFSA's affiliate in the USA. That is a nice thing to be so it makes sense to so state that on the site. Without this affiliation it would be harder for American athletes to get into IFSA contests. As it is, the USA has many slots at IFSA Worlds, etc.

This does not mean that ASC is only IFSA's affiliate. Like I said above, some ASC athletes typically compete in IFSA. Some typically compete in the Super Series. Some do primarily ASC shows--pro-ams and such.

As for more than 1/3 of the contests being IFSA, that means that almost 2/3 are not IFSA going with your numbers.

I think its fine for them to say that and I'm glad that they give people an easier way to get to the championships.

I was just saying with all the mentions of IFSA on their website, it would be pretty easy for someone to misunderstand their relationship with them.

[Kevin Cronin]

so prutty much what you are saying kevin is that strongman doesnt deserve a spot on tv beacause we dont have a big enough fan base and the rateings wouldnt be good well who is to say that if espn put us out there and helped out a little by giveing us a spot that ouer fan base wouldnt increase and the rateings would go up and just for the record i never implied that strongman was or should be bigger than football and so on and should get more tv time than those sports do but simply give it a chance and air strongman as a possitive image drug free or not most people are smart enough and know that guys dont get that big and strong on their own some do im not saying that but most dont strongman shouldnt be over looked and givin a chance

second longest run-on sentence in forum history, behind Chad Robinson's 417 word leviathan on the "So you think you're huge!" thread

Anton, I bolded the part to which I'm responding. I already acknowledged the chicken-egg nature of the whole thing. But espn "helping" us? Why? They are not a charitable organization. We are not 'owed' anything. It is up to us

(and who the heck do we even mean when we say 'us?' there is no 'us' We're seem to be torn behind the idea of these multiple, warring federations and a plethora of nameless, faceless, unaffiliated backyard shows. Billy rightly pointed out that in a capitalist society competition is seen as a good thing, and has it's advantages. But he ignored the fact that there are times when monopolies can be beneficial, and indeed, preferable. MLB and the NFL with their antitrust exemptions are the obvious choices, but every seems to forget that multiple phone companies only sprung up about 20 years ago, and that railroads where, a little over a century ago, legal monopolies. Both for the same reason that the upfront costs of establishing the infrastructure that would be mutually beneficial were prohibitive to profit - UNLESS those fronting that cost were granted a temporary monopoly to recoupl those costs)

to produce an enticing enough product that espn WANTS it, for its own self interests, not some kind of charitable inclination

[srojv]

Kevin , I am just amazed that you actually sat there and counted all those words.

[Kevin Cronin]

Kevin , I am just amazed that you actually sat there and counted all those words.
Dude, cut and paste into a word processor, Tools > Word Count. Get out of the 1970s old man :T:

[DaveMihalov]

I think it is a little more complicated than how enjoyable people might find the show. Enjoying the show doesn't sell product, necessarily.

I think a lot of the key to advertising is to decide is there a big enough audience out there that will want to buy the items being advertised. It seems this is how advertising works for small nitch type sports. This is different from big market sports like football where the advertising is more generic because the audience is so large--i.e. coke, ford trucks, etc.

I often hear things like "how is it that poker is on ESPN?" I think it is because tons of people in this country play poker; the advertisers for that site are essentially paid gambling sites--i.e. partypoker.net is the advertiser, but partypoker.com is a place where all of these at home poker players can go blow their money.

Another example is bass fishing or something--there are lots of people that do that stuff. Advertisers are rod/reel companies, boats, etc. These are expensive products that a lot of people go buy to do the sport.

Strongman on the other hand is cool to watch, but is the advertising getting extra product purchased? I don't know that the avg. guy watching strongman ever contemplates that he could actually do it himself. He probably is a 150 lb guy who finds it cool, but never thinks about buying the stuff that is advertised because he doesn't relate.


I think there is a business model there, but it is not as easy as people might would think. It is being worked on for sure.

Hey Ryan I think this is stated perfectly. It all boils down to money and advertising. The reason all other sporting events held on ESPN or any other network for that matter do so well is because large companies (who can afford to) throw rediculous amounts of money around for commericials during these broadcasts - the networks make money off of them and the companies make money off of us, the people watching. It's really unfortunate but the fact of the matter is, whether strongman is fun to watch or not, companies cannot make money off of it. Does anyone notice the commericials during WSM? You see Mariusz squatting with that damn log on his back twice every commercial set. METRX is the really only company any normal person watching WSM would recognize. Obviously people who post on this board would know other companies but the cost of advertising has become so rediculous it's not even worth it for smaller companies. No large companies advertising = no air time for WSM. It's as simple and unfortunate as that. This is why strongman is growing but will never get to the large stage that we all want it to unless it is made an Olympic sport and everyone knows what that means (I'm not supposed to talk about this topic but it's the truth).

[Jamey Niewojna]

You want ratings, just show em Barabas! :M:

[DaveMihalov]

You want ratings, just show em Barabas! :M:

hah that may be true. and by the way I love your sponsored by list, that's funny

[barabas47]

You want ratings, just show em Barabas! :M:

Now you're talking. I'm not doing any strongman show unless I can take my shirt off or load stones in my skibbies

[Todd Malone]

This is a valid point, but then why show spelling bee's? There is no fan base there.


You'd be surprised. There's quite an audience for the Scripps National Spelling Bee, which I think is all ESPN shows. And I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a fan.

[Jared Enderton]

second longest run-on sentence in forum history, behind Chad Robinson's 417 word leviathan on the "So you think you're huge!" thread


haha i thought the exact same thing. i actually thought it was longer.

on another note--those met-rx commercials are OLD, too. it still has mariusz as 2x world chapmion. yes. chapmion, not champion(look closely next time)

[Jeff Bach]

Having been in the sport for 15 years.......in the old days there was no distinction between Pro and AM .... not until the 02/03 season...03 was the first year of qualifying.....Jim Davis nor anyone else used the name ASM....It was always the National Championship......I did not get my "PRO CARD" until IFSA-USA and Jim Davis gave me one...of course after I paid my dues.


..I had the National Championship in 01 and we had 24 guys....about 8 of them did not belong and ran the risk of getting hurt...non of them made it past the 1st day...the idea that some freak will just come from BFE to win or even make the top 10 is absurd.

Phil has been spoken to and if you know Phil he will do what he wants. He really does not care for politics and now has his chance to take the sport in a direction he thinks it should be....personally I love the idea of a drug tested show, but hate the fact that it is open to anyone. The pro card system is a fair system and makes sure guys should be at a pro show( up to the level).

The exposure will be great for strongman....I disagree with Marshal I think many top names will be at the show.....atleast the ones the that are not worried about getting banned or can't pass the "test".....does that make it a hollow victory since you did not beat the best? Maybe, but the American public will see the ESPN covered show and remember them....just like everyone knows MP/4x WSM and no ones knows ZS/ifsa world champ.......just think of the last 2 Nationals-06/07 was SM or DP victories mean less because a handful of the best guys were not there? They are both National Champs!

For the last 5 years I( and many others) have worked to not see this division in the sport, but this act here is civil war. I think all of us will ,in the end, be forced to take a side. I have yet to side...part of me sides with ASC/NAS- the promoter and businessman///// the flip side is as a drugfree guy I have waited 11 years for a tested show!

This would have been really great 6 years ago or so for you guys. I still think that you will do well in this show Chad but there are a handfull I can think of that would have really done great in their peek.

Still a great opportunity for you.

[Jeff Bach]

I would actually believe it less. There are ways of beating a lie detector, and there are false positives. Lie detectors cant actually detect whether you're telling a lie they detect an increased heart rate, sweaty palms, i believe a change in your breathing ... all symptoms of lying but also, surprise surprise, symptoms of being nervous when you're hooked up to a bunch of wires and authority figures are asking you questions. I know they have control questions for that, but there are too many nightmare stories for me to put blind faith in it.






There are also very good liers out there that can pass a lie detector.

[Jeff Bach]

If you just set back and look at the $$$$$$.......the biggest purse I remember at a Nationals was $20,000 in 03....in 01 it was $10,000. I think more than a few big names will show upto claim that chunk of change.



Jim actually paid out $30,000 in 2003 I think.

[Jeff Bach]

"advertising is fairly cheap on something like espn2. it might cost an advertiser $30 to put a spot on a non-prime time event."

You might want to recheck that number!

That is likely a local number. Only in your area.

[Jeff Bach]

Thay may help both WSM and Ifsa type shows, but can you blame people for thinking that its just an IFSA affiliate when on its ABOUT ASC page says:



Or when more than a third of the competitions on their results page say they were sponsored by IFSA?

That can send out mixed messages.


EDIT: just noticed this on their home page:

And now with the downfall of IFSA, ASC will change affiliations and follow the money.

[Matt Parkes]

Perhaps things are done differently in the US...as I understand it, here in Canada, if we want to get CSM aired on TSN (our version of ESPN), WE have to pay TSN for the privilege of airing the show, provide them the show neatly packaged and produced, and sell the ad time ourselves to finance the cost. That is why the same ads will air during the broadcasts. TSN (or ESPN) would grant the use of their logo, but would contribute nothing themselves but the time slot. We have to arrange and pay for the production crew as well as the post-production costs.

This is true Grant but our CSM broadcast is proof that strongman can get some large corporate sponsors. In 2007 the title sponsor was Chevy and other sponsors included Dewalt, Subway and Duracell. Those are pretty large generic advertisers. I find it hard to believe that these companies will do business here in a market 1/10th the size of America but won't do business in the US. Granted a couple of those sponsors have been with Hugo personally for a while but I refuse to believe that they wouldn't be open to the idea of being involved in an ASM show.

[Mike Landrich]

Now you're talking. I'm not doing any strongman show unless I can take my shirt off or load stones in my skibbies

Perhaps you'd take all of Kaifas' attention :M: Poor Glenn wouldn't be the object of so much adoration.

[PeteKonradt]

"Matt Parks page 15 That's a valid complaint and maybe this is an area where open 'backyard shows' can be utilized. If you're somebody who only competes once a year and has no aspirations to go pro or turn strongman into a lifestyle then I can see the benefit of competing in some unaffiliated shows. It gives you a chance to compete which I'm assuming you do like to do and since its unaffiliated there may even be opportunities to win a little bit of money without the 'armature' tag being applied to it."

I have an armature show and pay prize money. You can be affiliated with nas and also give prize money if you want to.



Some guys have said that Strongman is not a popular sport and I disagree. Strongman is popular. Every time I tell someone what I do they perk up and have a short conversation about it with me. The problem we have is not getting people to watch it. The problem is getting someone to look in the TV guide and watch it out of a love to watch it in its entirety. Most people I have talked to say they watch it when its on, all ages in fact. Its just that they don't plan to watch it and only see it if they land on it.

It costs money to put it on TV and it does rise money. Just not the kind that other sports do in the US. Who knows maybe Strongman will have its day. At this point its not a top seed sport like some of the others.

[Zach Snyder]

true....but when you do you ever see supplement companies advertise on tv? only met-rx, 99% of it is during WSM.

I see EAS commercials with Brady Quinn all the time.

[Jeff Bach]

Have had a little more time to think about this very interest thread. Some may argue that the NAS/ASC system has worked great. History shows that NAS has greatly grown the AMs but I think the Pro's had better pay days for the most part before ASC. At least just as good.

Maybe because Jim Davis didn't take anything for himself? He ended up broke but put his heart into the athletes. ASC won't do anything if it does not put money in thier own pockets. And I am a business man so to a point I understand that but from my prospective I would say it is "extreme" with ASC. But that is just my opinion.

As far as backyard contest, what about the Strongest Man Alive in 1998. Still one of the best contest in the US in what I will call the modern era of Strongman.

Started out with I think (I have the list somewhere) almost 50 lights and 50 heavies. Then cut down to 10 of each for the final.

No slouches in the whole thing. Big names back then and some even today like Ahola, Pfister, Baskin, Mafuli, Rankin, Neese, Maddy and others. Prize money drew them there.

If the system ain't broke don't fix it but there has really been no gains in the last years. Time to try something different.

Phil has never seemed to agree with some things in the Pros. Guess things maybe even bothered him more then some thought. Could be the reason for the name thing. We will see if his method works. Lets see how his contest goes.

If (and I never was) I was the level to do his show I certainly would with the opportunity to win $10K and have the confidence that the check would clear.

I hope to be able to follow this thread but may not be able to for a few days. If not I will catch up as soon as I can get back in my house. A little too much water in this town lateley.

[Kevin Cronin]

The problem we have is not getting people to watch it. The problem is getting someone to look in the TV guide and watch it out of a love to watch it in its entirety. Most people I have talked to say they watch it when its on, all ages in fact. Its just that they don't plan to watch it and only see it if they land on it.
But that's a fundamental difference pete. When I went away to college and the local television station didnt broadcast my hometown team, I went nuts trying to find a solution until I found a bar that WAS carrying the games (all of them.) I SOUGHT OUT the nfl. That's popularity. I wouldn't say that strongman is UNpopular, not by any stretch, but it's not popular ENOUGH, does that sound more palatable? It is regarded as an oddity rather than an object of devotion.

[chad_coy]

Jeff....I like the term SEASONED.
.....It was 20K in 03.......the other was in the form of a ring if I recall....still the most amount of prize money at Nationals....Jim was always good cause it was CASH!

Lets not paint Jim too much the Saint....we can discuss that on a PM if you wish!

ASC/NAS....is ran like a business and it should be....their time is worth money...I hope they make tons of money. The people that complain abut them....I say SHUT UP unless you can do a better job!

[Ryan Brown]

I think its fine for them to say that and I'm glad that they give people an easier way to get to the championships.

I was just saying with all the mentions of IFSA on their website, it would be pretty easy for someone to misunderstand their relationship with them.

I agree. That's why I decided to post the clarification... :p

[rickfreitag]

I have wanted to weigh in on this before now but wanted to see what else would be said and I was waiting for someone to post an official position by ASC. To this point, I believe no one has. So yesterday I called Dione to speak with her about the matter. There are some very interesting aspects that will remain private. That is all I'm going to say. It is not my business to disclose publicly some of the matters between Phil and ASC. I think it is important to remember there are always TWO sides to every story.

I asked Dione point blank about her position on athletes competing in Phil's contest. Amateurs can do as they please. They have no affliation with any professional federation and are free to compete as they so choose without any worry of problems later from ASC. She did say that regardless of how any AM performs in this contest, they will not be considered pro in ASC until they go through the established system for earning their pro status. That is absolutely fair IMO.

ASC pros are another story. Dione reminded me of the notice she gave to all ASC pros back in January 2008 about ASC pros competing in non-sanctioned ASC contests. Internationally, she has no problem with it. But any contest held here in the US must be ASC sanctioned before any ASC pro can compete. Any pro who decides to compete in an unsanctioned contest will lose their ASC pro status. Again, I find this absolutely fair. She is intending to protect her federation. And if anyone here put themselves in her shoes, they would do the same.

Maybe this contest is good for SM. I suspect it is not. Not in the manner in which it is being done. This potentially is a bomb ready to fragment our sport here in the US. One thing is clear to me, SM only stands a chance at moving towards more major markets if SM remains united. I would not compete in this contest even if I was ready.

[Ryan Brown]

And now with the downfall of IFSA, ASC will change affiliations and follow the money.

Jeff, you should know this, but read my clarification post on this topic. ASC is not following money. They are trying to grow strongman. Of course everyone would run it slightly different if it was them running it and everyone can point to this or that about how they see a "failure." But there have been a lot of successes. The bottom line is that I only see Dione going out there day in and day out trying to promote this sport. There are now over 100 shows per year available to Ams. There is an established system for going pro, etc. This is good stuff and lots of people on these boards are given a lot of enjoyment because of the chance to do am shows, seek a pro card, do pro shows, etc.

Further, ASC is not IFSA. ASC athletes are given opportunities to do IFSA. ASC athletes are also given opportunities to do Super Series and WSM. It's not like as soon as you do WSM you resign as an ASC pro and Dione says later... In my experience Dione has been willing to help promote any pro out there regardless of where they get to or want to compete. She helped me to get hooked up with some United Strongman stuff at one point and even offered some other opportunities for Saudi Arabia, etc. that I declined for personal reasons.

[MarshallWhite]

Have had a little more time to think about this very interest thread. Some may argue that the NAS/ASC system has worked great. History shows that NAS has greatly grown the AMs but I think the Pro's had better pay days for the most part before ASC. At least just as good.

Maybe because Jim Davis didn't take anything for himself? He ended up broke but put his heart into the athletes. ASC won't do anything if it does not put money in thier own pockets. And I am a business man so to a point I understand that but from my prospective I would say it is "extreme" with ASC. But that is just my opinion.

As far as backyard contest, what about the Strongest Man Alive in 1998. Still one of the best contest in the US in what I will call the modern era of Strongman.

Started out with I think (I have the list somewhere) almost 50 lights and 50 heavies. Then cut down to 10 of each for the final.

No slouches in the whole thing. Big names back then and some even today like Ahola, Pfister, Baskin, Mafuli, Rankin, Neese, Maddy and others. Prize money drew them there.

If the system ain't broke don't fix it but there has really been no gains in the last years. Time to try something different.
Phil has never seemed to agree with some things in the Pros. Guess things maybe even bothered him more then some thought. Could be the reason for the name thing. We will see if his method works. Lets see how his contest goes.

If (and I never was) I was the level to do his show I certainly would with the opportunity to win $10K and have the confidence that the check would clear.

I hope to be able to follow this thread but may not be able to for a few days. If not I will catch up as soon as I can get back in my house. A little too much water in this town lateley.
I have to disagree with this statement....strongman is two or three times what it was ten years ago...teh fact that this forum exists is proof to that fact.....I think we have a strong fan base but I think that in the "marketing" area we are definitely lacking....I'm not going to go on another rant about how we as strongmen need to be marketable but I really do think that is the key to our commercial success.

Rick F.- Thank you for that post.

[Billy Wolt]

Rick...

I don't understand why ASC pros cannot compete in non-ASC events in the US, but abroad is ok.

Is WSM or SS ASC sanctioned events? I feel the winner of this contest, will probably get invites to SS events in the future as well given that said person has already competed in two majore competitions (Phils, and WSM).

[Ryan Wells]

Is WSM or SS ASC sanctioned events? Excellent point.

Here is a local news story on it: http://www.wsaz.com/newswestvirginia/headlines/15083101.html

[Kevin Cronin]

Originally Posted by Billy Wolt

Is WSM or SS ASC sanctioned events?
Excellent point.

Disagree. I'm willing to bet that even tho Mohegan Sun and last year's WSM are/were held in the US they are considered int'l for the simple reason that athletes of different nationalities are competing. An "ASM" is domestic no matter which way you slice it.

That being said, I dont like the idea of athletes being told where they can and can't compete. If ASC pros were paid a salary I could understand ... but this smacks of the UFC's policy of not allowing a fighter to compete in other feds. I can understand that the NFL has their players under contract that pay them a salary, and hence are not allowed to play elsewhere without clearance (as ricky williams got to play in the cfl.) But if a fighter gets hurt training, he's not compensated by the UFC, and if he's only infrequently scheduled to fight, he cant supplement his income by fighting elsewhere.

EDIT to add: if no ASC pros wind up doing this event, I hope Siders enters. He would own.

[Billy Wolt]

Disagree. I'm willing to bet that even tho Mohegan Sun and last year's WSM are/were held in the US they are considered int'l for the simple reason that athletes of different nationalities are competing. An "ASM" is domestic no matter which way you slice it.



also...no disrespect intended to anyone, but I'm guessing (correct me if i'm wrong please) that the Jesse Marunde Invitational at the irrigation festival is not ASC santioned, yet there are ASC pros competing .

[Kevin Cronin]

also...no disrespect intended to anyone, but I'm guessing (correct me if i'm wrong please) that the Jesse Marunde Invitational at the irrigation festival is not ASC santioned, yet there are ASC pros competing .
I dont know whether it's sanctioned or not, but Magnus Samuelsson is on the competitors list ... so as noted above, it may very well be considered int'l.

[MarshallWhite]

also...no disrespect intended to anyone, but I'm guessing (correct me if i'm wrong please) that the Jesse Marunde Invitational at the irrigation festival is not ASC santioned, yet there are ASC pros competing .
The show in essence is an expo...not a legit competition that will qualify you for something...we also have some am's doing it.

[anton axelsson]

so we need to find someone to market the sport who bettre than espn?? im sure if espn would feel thay would profit from it thay would do it in a heart beat so do we know if anyone like the asc/nas have ever talked to espn to try to get strongman aired more or what we could do to get it aired we have a alot of comps each year? and kevin thanks for your little chicken analogie there very educational but either way you look at it we need help/sponser from a big tv station like espn and espn2 to get this sport out there and get it bettre known in the us im sure if asc/nas could sell them on it and it would show profit thay would take it on i think strongman could at least beacome more poppular than figure skating or try to talk to versus..

anyway this is just how i feel and think someone like the asc/nas should get us out there

[Mike Landrich]

ASC is not a democracy. Dione and Willie can bend the rules. If they wish to allow ASC pros to compete at the Jesse Marunde Invitational, they can allow it. Rules exist only to set a minimum expectation.

[Billy Wolt]

ASC is not a democracy. Dione and Willie can bend the rules. If they wish to allow ASC pros to compete at the Jesse Marunde Invitational, they can allow it. Rules exist only to set a minimum expectation.

so it's ok to compete in one contest, but not another? sounds pretty unfair to me. If you're going to have a rule, apply it across the board.

[Ryan Wells]

Disagree. I'm willing to bet that even tho Mohegan Sun and last year's WSM are/were held in the US they are considered int'l for the simple reason that athletes of different nationalities are competing. An "ASM" is domestic no matter which way you slice it.

That being said, I dont like the idea of athletes being told where they can and can't compete. If ASC pros were paid a salary I could understand ... but this smacks of the UFC's policy of not allowing a fighter to compete in other feds. I can understand that the NFL has their players under contract that pay them a salary, and hence are not allowed to play elsewhere without clearance (as ricky williams got to play in the cfl.) But if a fighter gets hurt training, he's not compensated by the UFC, and if he's only infrequently scheduled to fight, he cant supplement his income by fighting elsewhere.

I respect Dione and Willie and think they both have a good heart and a genuine love for the sport. I mean this objectively and not toward them or anybody...

This country was founded on competition and free enterprise. Competition helps to ensure quality and creates a natural sort of checks and balances. What I do have a problem with is a monopolistic attitude. It is like AT&T threatening to cut your phone lines if you go with another carrier. I mean come on. I agree with you Kevin about if there was a salary or large sponsorship involved. I would understand if it was something that didn't measure up and would be considered a step back. Then, you should look out for your athletes. But, $10k, ESPN2, and a slot to the big show? If the grass is truly greener, then who wouldn't want to take a shot? That would be a natural progression in my mind. ...seems American to me.

Just being objective here. It's just one damn show. However, I would have went with a different name lol.

[Ryan Bracewell]

Man, what a long thread. This thing went from am's getting to compete with pro's, to TV spots and sponsorships.

Personally I dont see what all the fuss is about. If someone signs up for phil's event that should not really be there, they will get knocked out the first day. And if they are good enough to be the top pros that show up then they deserve the prize whether they have past accomplishments or not.

Additional exposure will do nothing but help strongman, regardless of its federation, so everyone should be happy this will be on TV.

[Ryan Wells]

To me I see essentially three main issues here:

1. Phil was able to muster some heavy contacts for this show and people that have been trying to build the same type of thing over the years feel side stepped and walked on (can understand).

2. The name choice was a definite cause for conflict (understandably).

3. There may be some fear/concern that IF this show does take off and becomes thee big thing to compete in year after year, that the whole "testing" aspect will become a much bigger deal that it is currently or ever has been in the past.

I empathize with Dione's position, but am very curious to see how it unfolds.

[Mike Landrich]

What I find odd is that some people act surprised because ASC is a run like a business. So are IFSA and WSMSS. ASC says which pro shows you can compete in, much like IFSA restricts (perhaps I should say restricted) their athletes to IFSA shows. For the title of ASC pro strongman you get to compete in ASC sanctioned shows (and potentially IFSA or WSM SS shows), and promote yourself to sponsors, etc. You represent ASC, whether you like it or not. The trade-off is that you must not compete outside of ASC's guidelines. Does anyone remember a contest called World Strongest Man that really wasn't WSM? What if an ASC pro had competed. It would have added legitimacy to this farce. See the thread below for a refresher.


http://www.marunde-muscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5103&highlight=World%27s+Strongest

[Kevin Cronin]

What I find odd is that some people act surprised because ASC is a run like a business. So are IFSA and WSMSS. ASC says which pro shows you can compete in, much like IFSA restricts (perhaps I should say restricted) their athletes to IFSA shows. For the title of ASC pro strongman you get to compete in ASC sanctioned shows (and potentially IFSA or WSM SS shows), and promote yourself to sponsors, etc. You represent ASC, whether you like it or not. The trade-off is that you must not compete outside of ASC's guidelines. Does anyone remember a contest called World Strongest Man that really wasn't WSM? What if an ASC pro had competed. It would have added legitimacy to this farce.
But according to what Rick posted, it would've been perfectly acceptable for an asc athlete to compete in that show since it was int'l ... so int'l farces are ok, but domestic shows arent? That doesnt make sense, I'm certain there's more to it.
EDIT to add: Mike, I just read through the entire thread, and an ASC athlete DID compete in that contest, the prior year. Sam McMahon posts about his experiences on the second page of the thread. Doesnt seem to have added any legitimacy, or anything terrible.

Also, just because ifsa did something (prohibit its athletes from competing elsewhere) that doesnt make it right. In fact, you say "so is IFSA [run like a business]" - a business that doesnt pay its debts? SS is run like a business, but I've never heard of them prohibiting someone from doing a show. I've heard of them not inviting athletes who qualified for a show, but that's an entirely different matter.

I've never had a problem with how NAS is run, and I'm not an ASC athlete, so these arent even gripes per se, more just philosophical questions regarding the direction of the sport I guess.

[Ryan Wells]

SS is run like a business, but I've never heard of them prohibiting someone from doing a show. I've heard of them not inviting athletes who qualified for a show, but that's an entirely different matter.

I could be that some federations that are trying hard to get to the "ESPN" level and get the larger sponsors view their athletes as an asset. No quality assets = no incentive for the larger sponsors to bite. On the other hand, shows like SS, WSM, Arnold, etc. ARE the asset. They already have the coverage and the sponsors--naturally the top athletes will come and compete. So, one hand washes an other.

[Todd Seiple]

I can see Marschall's point of view on this issue. But I think we need to remember who real strongman are ( whether we are PRo's or Am's)

We have one Am federation that to get to the top you MUST go thru. Unlike Powerlifeing that has been diluted by multiple feds and rules.

99% of the strongman compeitiors and old time PL's I have met do not care who walks in the door to lift. As Nick Osborne would say "just shut up and lift" Your numbers do the talking

I agree the the title of the comp is probably wrong but the idea ( as long as it is only a one time a yr type thing like they have in Golf) can really help our sport. We always here about " That Guy" " MY Uncle" ect that can lift an engine block over his head but does not want to compete. Well here is 10K reasons for those guys to show up against some of the best. Kinda like the Pros Vs Joe's. As we all know who have done this sport NO one and I mean NO one will walk off the street and win this type of comp regardless of there gym lift credentials. I was a 700lb deadlifter and the first time I tied to pick up a 240 lb stone it about killed me!!!

And if an amatour does happen to win then everyone on this board knows he deserved it. Walking with an 900 lb yoke has nothing to do with the guy racing next to you so why should we care if he wants to try it out.

So, I say come one come all, lets see whatcha got!! If you think you can hang with the Pro's of our sport here is your one chance. Once they try to throw a 300+ lb log over their head and fail they will realize they better not show up in West VG. Pro's the only threat you have is your pride/ego's and trust me neither will be broken by some guy off the street. If an Am beats you then you should be cheering his butt on becuase that has slim odds as well.

Simply put MArshall, I say you show up and show them that our sport is not a joke and whoop some tail!!! :EP:

[Jeff Bach]

Jeff....I like the term SEASONED.
.....It was 20K in 03.......the other was in the form of a ring if I recall....still the most amount of prize money at Nationals....Jim was always good cause it was CASH!

Lets not paint Jim too much the Saint....we can discuss that on a PM if you wish!

ASC/NAS....is ran like a business and it should be....their time is worth money...I hope they make tons of money. The people that complain abut them....I say SHUT UP unless you can do a better job!

I won't paint Jim as a saint. And no need to PM as I am open to any discussion.

But I certainly do thing Jims intentions are very different then ASC. With Jim it was always for the Athletes and charity. He wasn't much of a business man and that is probably why he isn't still promoting but I think now it is me first with ASC. I wonder if any athlete gets paid for anything without ASC getting a cut? Even that would be OK is guys where really making a good living at Strongman but I don't think many if any are.

[Jeff Bach]

Jeff, you should know this, but read my clarification post on this topic. ASC is not following money. They are trying to grow strongman. Of course everyone would run it slightly different if it was them running it and everyone can point to this or that about how they see a "failure." But there have been a lot of successes. The bottom line is that I only see Dione going out there day in and day out trying to promote this sport. There are now over 100 shows per year available to Ams. There is an established system for going pro, etc. This is good stuff and lots of people on these boards are given a lot of enjoyment because of the chance to do am shows, seek a pro card, do pro shows, etc.

Further, ASC is not IFSA. ASC athletes are given opportunities to do IFSA. ASC athletes are also given opportunities to do Super Series and WSM. It's not like as soon as you do WSM you resign as an ASC pro and Dione says later... In my experience Dione has been willing to help promote any pro out there regardless of where they get to or want to compete. She helped me to get hooked up with some United Strongman stuff at one point and even offered some other opportunities for Saudi Arabia, etc. that I declined for personal reasons.

Ryan I guess I see it a bit different. Maybe it is the whole purpose or feel. Who is really making money, ASC or Athletes? How much did you make as a Pro? Not really looking for an answer but making a point.

[Jeff Bach]

I have to disagree with this statement....strongman is two or three times what it was ten years ago...teh fact that this forum exists is proof to that fact.....I think we have a strong fan base but I think that in the "marketing" area we are definitely lacking....I'm not going to go on another rant about how we as strongmen need to be marketable but I really do think that is the key to our commercial success.

Rick F.- Thank you for that post.

Marshall I think we agree more than you think. 10 years ago Chris Mavromatis (sp?) had a contest with 100 contestants and decent prize money. I don't see any more money since then.

I don't see ASC have the suave or marketing savvy to bring the money into the sport so there is enough money to support all the Pros. What big sponsors have they brought on board?

[Jeff Bach]

Disagree. I'm willing to bet that even tho Mohegan Sun and last year's WSM are/were held in the US they are considered int'l for the simple reason that athletes of different nationalities are competing. An "ASM" is domestic no matter which way you slice it.

That being said, I dont like the idea of athletes being told where they can and can't compete. If ASC pros were paid a salary I could understand ... but this smacks of the UFC's policy of not allowing a fighter to compete in other feds. I can understand that the NFL has their players under contract that pay them a salary, and hence are not allowed to play elsewhere without clearance (as ricky williams got to play in the cfl.) But if a fighter gets hurt training, he's not compensated by the UFC, and if he's only infrequently scheduled to fight, he cant supplement his income by fighting elsewhere.

EDIT to add: if no ASC pros wind up doing this event, I hope Siders enters. He would own.

Kind of like a union but without the security huh?

[Jim Glassman]

[QUOTE=Jeff Bach]Marshall I think we agree more than you think. 10 years ago Chris Mavromatis (sp?) had a contest with 100 contestants and decent prize money. I don't see any more money since then.

Dude!! I have not thought of that contest in years. I think I'm the only one on the board that actually was in that show. The sport has changed a ton in the last ten years and the next ten I'm sure will bring more changes.

[Mike Landrich]

so it's ok to compete in one contest, but not another? sounds pretty unfair to me. If you're going to have a rule, apply it across the board.


The rules guiding athletes' conduct are made to guide the athletes, not ASC. Just like in business. EXAMPLE The owner of a pizzeria can give you a free pizza, even though the rules for his employees say charge a set price. If you owned a business, you too would understand that the owner can bend rules, especially when its to the employees' (in this case athletes') favor. It gives them an additional show to do.

As for competing outside the US, if you get invited to a show, you too could compete as a pro, regardless of your am/pro status here. As for why Willie and Dione let ASC pros compete without losing their ASC pro status is known only to them. Actually, since most of us are ams and not ASC, it really isn't our business.

Why so many people bash ASC is beyond me. Its not welfare for Strongmen. They gotta eat too, you know. :)

[Mike Landrich]

EDIT to add: Mike, I just read through the entire thread, and an ASC athlete DID compete in that contest, the prior year. Sam McMahon posts about his experiences on the second page of the thread. Doesnt seem to have added any legitimacy, or anything terrible.


OK, bad example (especially since it was outside the US), but you at least understood my concept, didn't you?

[Jamey Niewojna]

Kind of like a union but without the security huh?

A union is like a temp service with more politics than strongman could ever have. There is no security. They do what they want, when they want.

There is NO money in strongman. The average person will never relate. You cant market something the average joe has no interest in. If it's money you seek, seek it elsewhere!

[Billy Wolt]

This sport really needs some VC funding or some wealthy person to come in and start their own organization that will pay athletes salaries (allowing the term pro actually mean that's what they do for a living), run 10-20 top level shows per year, produce and package them, and also have qualifying shows for amatuers.

I wonder if that is the kick that the sport needs in order to become a little bit more mainstream.....quick 2-3 hour, live broadcasts of contests, that are on once a month. Maybe those people that say "i like watching it whenever it's on", will actually watch it if it was a regular broadcast.

I guess i'm just dreaming, probably never happen. But i'd be nice if the pros could actually make a living doing this.

[Billy Wolt]

There is NO money in strongman.


Jamey...looking at your signature, maybe all the pro's just need to find some good women :D :YR:

[Jamey Niewojna]

I wish all the time for strongman to blow up. To gain wild popularity faster than nascar ever did.(cars going in circle for hours?) I've just come to relize that it's very unlikely. Pro strongman doesnt have anything to do with money right now, it's just a higher level of competion. And yes Billy, having a great woman makes life much easier. No one commented on my strength at my 10 year reunion, only comments on my hot wife.

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

Marshall I think we agree more than you think. 10 years ago Chris Mavromatis (sp?) had a contest with 100 contestants and decent prize money. I don't see any more money since then.



$5000 to the Heavyweight winner
$5000 to the Lightheavyweight winner(under 210 at that contest-?)

All the big money went back to Finland :o -I think Phil got $3000 for second-?

Whatever became of those granite Atlas stones he made-?-

[barabas47]

Pro Stongman is going to take a long time to blow up in the states. Mainly because our fan base loves football and pro wrestling. And even those sports took decades to grow. Across the pond, they dont have acess to those sports like we do, so strongman dominates.

I cant speak for the HW's, but us LW pros are not looking to make this our primary job. We all have to go to work on monday and we just want to perform well, not get injured and hopefully get our travel expenses covered.

In the drug testing area for LW's, adding a drug tested event would not matter. If you ask the majority of us, we are all for it. It's just very expensive to test a group of people. It's roughly $250/person. There goes all prize money. I'm sure one day drug testing will be standard in the LW division but americans need to know that overseas what's illegal here is legal there. If anything 20 years from now, we are going to see a lot of things legalized. They are already making sentences lighter for cocaine dealers etc...

[Mike Landrich]

This sport really needs some VC funding or some wealthy person to come in and start their own organization that will pay athletes salaries (allowing the term pro actually mean that's what they do for a living), run 10-20 top level shows per year, produce and package them, and also have qualifying shows for amatuers.


Like Vince McMahon did for bodybuilding with the WBF?

[rickfreitag]

I wish all the time for strongman to blow up. To gain wild popularity faster than nascar ever did.(cars going in circle for hours?) I've just come to relize that it's very unlikely. Pro strongman doesnt have anything to do with money right now, it's just a higher level of competion. And yes Billy, having a great woman makes life much easier. No one commented on my strength at my 10 year reunion, only comments on my hot wife.

Jamey, LOL, how true!!!

[barabas47]

Also, outside of this forum. I have not heard a lot of speak about this show. I would think that ESPN or a muscle and fitness type magazine would hype this to get people out there. But I cant find anything on their website either.

Not sure if anyone has heard a lot about this outside of this forum.

[rickfreitag]

Pro Stongman is going to take a long time to blow up in the states. Mainly because our fan base loves football and pro wrestling. And even those sports took decades to grow. Across the pond, they dont have acess to those sports like we do, so strongman dominates.

I cant speak for the HW's, but us LW pros are not looking to make this our primary job. We all have to go to work on monday and we just want to perform well, not get injured and hopefully get our travel expenses covered.

In the drug testing area for LW's, adding a drug tested event would not matter. If you ask the majority of us, we are all for it. It's just very expensive to test a group of people. It's roughly $250/person. There goes all prize money. I'm sure one day drug testing will be standard in the LW division but americans need to know that overseas what's illegal here is legal there. If anything 20 years from now, we are going to see a lot of things legalized. They are already making sentences lighter for cocaine dealers etc...


I agree BJ. We do it for the love of the sport and the challenge it presents. That is enough. Enough to offset expensive travel, expensive custom equipment, expensive high protein diet, and pain and injury of the sport. The rewards are not measured in dollars. They are priceless, something measured in the heart and spirit of a man. That is why we do it. Maybe someday SM will be recognized by many for what it offers; until then, we will be here doing our thing.

[Jamey Niewojna]

2 serious posts in a row from Barabas, madness. Well said Rick.

[Jeff Bach]

[QUOTE=Jeff Bach]Marshall I think we agree more than you think. 10 years ago Chris Mavromatis (sp?) had a contest with 100 contestants and decent prize money. I don't see any more money since then.

Dude!! I have not thought of that contest in years. I think I'm the only one on the board that actually was in that show. The sport has changed a ton in the last ten years and the next ten I'm sure will bring more changes.

Jim,

You where in a few contests here in the Lou weren't you?

[Jeff Bach]

Why so many people bash ASC is beyond me. Its not welfare for Strongmen. They gotta eat too, you know. :)

Is it bashing or just open debate? Is debating OK?

Maybe some people have different information then others!

[Jeff Bach]

A union is like a temp service with more politics than strongman could ever have. There is no security. They do what they want, when they want.

There is NO money in strongman. The average person will never relate. You cant market something the average joe has no interest in. If it's money you seek, seek it elsewhere!

It is certainly not money I seek. However kind of like Billy posts that money could grow the sport. Bring it more into the mainstream and bring in even more quality pros.

Bodybuilding wasn't mainstream at all until Joe Weider really grew the sport. While it still isn't huge there is some consistancy and money in it. Certainly endorsement deals for athletes.

Strongman is much more fun to watch (at least I think) then Bodybuilding. If there was a savvy leader like a Weider maybe the sport will get somewhere.

[Jeff Bach]

Whatever became of those granite Atlas stones he made-?-

Some Jerk that only lurks here but won't post ended up with them.

[anton axelsson]

when is this contest supposed to go down????

[Jeff Bach]

4th of July weekend.

[barabas47]

Bodybuilding wasn't mainstream at all until Joe Weider really grew the sport. While it still isn't huge there is some consistancy and money in it. Certainly endorsement deals for athletes.

Strongman is much more fun to watch (at least I think) then Bodybuilding. If there was a savvy leader like a Weider maybe the sport will get somewhere.

I think BB'ers have it worse than we do. The Weider family rake in millions from BB'ers while only 2 shows actually pay decent money in the O and Arnold. All the BBers except for the top 3-4 are basically starving artists. The ones I know barely get reimbursed and pretty much only get free supplements.

Arnold put BB on the map and in the movies. But its still entertainment not a sport. At least SM get some form of tv

[Jeff Bach]

I think BB'ers have it worse than we do. The Weider family rake in millions from BB'ers while only 2 shows actually pay decent money in the O and Arnold. All the BBers except for the top 3-4 are basically starving artists. The ones I know barely get reimbursed and pretty much only get free supplements.

Arnold put BB on the map and in the movies. But its still entertainment not a sport. At least SM get some form of tv


I guess I am dating myself. Probably 10 years ago the top 10 at least where making some money. Probably mostly on endorsments and seminars and such. It has been since the mid ninedees since I have followed it at all. So I could easily be wrong in today terms.

There are certainly not 10 US strongmen making their living on the sport. Not even 3-4?

[barabas47]

There are certainly not 10 US strongmen making their living on the sport. Not even 3-4?

None that I know in SM, but between BB, SM and PL, we are not making a lot of gains these days.

[Jeff Bach]

None that I know in SM, but between BB, SM and PL, we are not making a lot of gains these days.

I am sure that is correct. So who is the next Joe Weider?

[Mike Landrich]

I am sure that is correct. So who is the next Joe Weider?

If Joe Weider does not help out the BBers, why do you want a SM version of him?

[Jeff Bach]

If Joe Weider does not help out the BBers, why do you want a SM version of him?

I concluded above that Joes help was in the past. He did take Bodybuilding literally from nothing and at least turned it in to something. Even a few competiters emerged into bigger and better things. Arnold. Even Lou Ferigno ( I know I butchered the spelling).

Joe was pretty selfish himself which is probably why it didn't last.

There are average people who really enjoy watching strongman whether live or on TV. But is there a master marketer who likes it enough to bring it to the next level?

At present it seems that any time someone tries, ASC puts a stop to it if they don't get their cut of the pie.

If the sport is stuggling in a sense as most of this thread agree, why not see what some other ideas may bring? Whether it is Phil or someone else?

If ASC says you can't compete in Phils contest but doesn't have anything to offer with the same pay day where does that leave the athletes? The guys who really deserve the money if anyone is going to make it?

Really most people on this whole thread really want the same thing. If it hasn't happened with 4 years or what ever of ASC why be so loyal?

[Jay O'Neill]

I think this sets a forum and maybe even a world record for the longest thread HI-Jack in History!!!! hahaha ;)

[Mike Landrich]

If it hasn't happened with 4 years or what ever of ASC why be so loyal?

It's a bit of a cliche, but "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand"

[Jeff Bach]

It's a bit of a cliche, but "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand"

Here you go Mike lets try a few more:

"You don't know what you don't know."

"Blind Faith will get you killed."

[Jamey Niewojna]

Jeff, I cant find your profile on the ASC website. Which means one of two things. They forgot to put it up.( unlikely) Or the probable answer, you're an amatuer strongman bashing a federation you know nothing about because of your disagreements in the past. Since none of the ASC pros I've talked to want to go to this joke of a show. Maybe let the athletes that it actually pertains to worry about it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't really apply to you. Go compete, win lots of money, get destroyed at WSM on TV. Good luck to all that enter this show, I'll be watching fireworks and drinking with friends and family. It's the fourth of July, happy Independence day to all! :BL:

[Paul Neuhaus]

I think this sets a forum and maybe even a world record for the longest thread HI-Jack in History!!!! hahaha ;)
..........

[Jeff Bach]

Jeff, I cant find your profile on the ASC website. Which means one of two things. They forgot to put it up.( unlikely) Or the probable answer, you're an amatuer strongman bashing a federation you know nothing about because of your disagreements in the past. Since none of the ASC pros I've talked to want to go to this joke of a show. Maybe let the athletes that it actually pertains to worry about it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't really apply to you. Go compete, win lots of money, get destroyed at WSM on TV. Good luck to all that enter this show, I'll be watching fireworks and drinking with friends and family. It's the fourth of July, happy Independence day to all! :BL:

Or maybe I have some insight that you don't because of my many more years of direct experience of living in St. Louis where a lot of the last 10 years of US strongman has been based out of?

Or maybe because I have seen so many pros in the last 10 years put their blood and gets into the sport and get nothing to speak of back out of it, I like to see changes and opportunity.

Or maybe because you and all the ASC pros won't go to this show you will dis the guy who walks with a $10K check and a ticket to WSM just like many dis Phil because he never would play under the ASC rules? Have you ever gotten a $10K check from one contest? Or been to WSM? Or been on TV?

I don't know you but ARE you eligable to compete in this contest? I know many that have posted on this thread certainly are not. Maybe this thread does NOT apply to you? I am eligable but I suck so I won't. But I will support it.

Or mabye friend of mine will compete in this contest more to support the Drug Free lifestyle then for the opportunity?

Or maybe because my hot wife does not make 6 figures I am not nearly as cool as you and don't deserve to post here?

[Jeff Bach]

I think this sets a forum and maybe even a world record for the longest thread HI-Jack in History!!!! hahaha ;)

I realize that according to jamey I am an idiot but since this is how this thread started:

"For $250 bucks, anyone can enter this contest, if you come with in the top 10 in a prelim you can compete in ASM...."

and all the conversation has been about these facts, how is this thread a hi jack? I think it has been great discussion and depate? All about this contest and opportunity in the opening statement. And certainly in the Ironmind post that it refers to.

[Jeff Bach]

Jeff, I cant find your profile on the ASC website. Which means one of two things. They forgot to put it up.( unlikely) Or the probable answer, you're an amatuer strongman bashing a federation you know nothing about because of your disagreements in the past. Since none of the ASC pros I've talked to want to go to this joke of a show. Maybe let the athletes that it actually pertains to worry about it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't really apply to you. Go compete, win lots of money, get destroyed at WSM on TV. Good luck to all that enter this show, I'll be watching fireworks and drinking with friends and family. It's the fourth of July, happy Independence day to all! :BL:

Quote from YOUR ASC profile "I don't know where we are headed but I hope the sport continues to grow and gain popularity so I can quit my day job and train seriously."

In what lifetime do you think this will happen under ASC? And no I don't have anything better to offer.

[barabas47]

Or maybe because you and all the ASC pros won't go to this show you will dis the guy who walks with a $10K check and a ticket to WSM just like many dis Phil because he never would play under the ASC rules? Have you ever gotten a $10K check from one contest? Or been to WSM? Or been on TV?



One of the things some of us newer ASC/NAS people, Jamey N. and I included, we dont know the past and the animosity between people. TWe have been treated fairly by the ASC and Dionne. We would love for a compromise to be met somewhere so we can all go out and compete in this show and any show for the growth of the sport. There is a long history in strongman and especially in STL. I've only heard rumors and it does not involve me so I dont care and alot of others dont either. We are all for competing in any show as along as it builds the sport.

I hope that ASC and Phil along with his partners can also bring the sport of strongman to the next level by working together. That would say a lot for the people of strongman and our commitment to this sport. If somehow this could be worked out. I would be there along with alot of others Pros I'm sure.