Another federation besides NAS

[dronga]

I've been thinking lately, would'nt it be nice if we had another federation besides NAS. More contests, more competitors, etc. Cast your vote, and post up some pros and cons.

[Matt Brouse]

I'd like to petition that you all try really hard to cast a serious vote for number 1 or number 2...to get a realistic picture of your thoughts on the matter without having to read the thread...

Heh.

BTW, I voted 'No.' Now, I'm not for the monopoly thing and I like the idea of having more oppurtunity for competition but I moreso like a unified national or world or whatever championships. Everybody dances the same dance so why not hold it in the same gymnasium.

That said, I was never acedemically eligible for the dances.

[Joshua Davis]

Someone already tried this. It took off like a lead balloon. Let's keep the sport unified. Everyone has their own concept on how to "run" strongman - all the better reason to keep centralized management.

Considering our quality of pros today, I'd say we are doing just fine.

[dronga]

Someone already tried this. It took off like a lead balloon. Let's keep the sport unified. Everyone has their own concept on how to "run" strongman.

Considering our quality of pros today, I'd say we are doing just fine.

Just trying to tap the mind of the mainstream Strongman competitors.

[rjpe99]

I think we need one unified amateur and pro federation. Look at all the amazing accomplishments from American strongmen over the last few years that go un-noticed by the majority of the American public. Derek Poundstone had one of the most amazing contests ever at ASM two years ago but unless you were involved with the sport you didn't hear about it. Now that he is doing the Super series shows many people in the general public know who he is. I think for publicity purposes and to make the sport more followed by the general public we need one amateur federation that feeds into one pro federation.

[dronga]

I think we need one unified amateur and pro federation. Look at all the amazing accomplishments from American strongmen over the last few years that go un-noticed by the majority of the American public. Derek Poundstone had one of the most amazing contests ever at ASM two years ago but unless you were involved with the sport you didn't hear about it. Now that he is doing the Super series shows many people in the general public know who he is. I think for publicity purposes and to make the sport more followed by the general public we need one amateur federation that feeds into one pro federation.


Ryan,

First off, thanks for your response, and I see your point. But, why not have a few amateur feds that feed into a pro fed. Businesses look at exposure, the more exposure the sport gets, the better. Exposure could mean more competitors, and possibly cash prizes to offset the cost of training and travel.

[CharlesDMickey]

I voted no.

I don’t see the benefit in another federation. PLing has NOT benefited from multiple federations (IMO).

I think Dione and Willie have done a great job growing the sport! I've been competing for about 6yrs now and when I started there was no LW pro division there was no ASC, contests were few and far between. The standards didn’t match up to the world level. My first contest had an 8" log, 200lbs for reps, 200lb farmers, and other "light stuff". The cut for LW was 225 and weigh-ins were done right before first event. That would really change things for most LW's these days.

Just look at the NAS site ~ There multiple shows almost every weekend! That was not the case 5yrs ago.

[Kevin Cronin]

I like having one national champion. I like that all contests "matter" because they are a chance to qualify for nats. Otherwise I'd just compete in NY/NE shows for "bragging rights" against guys from Joe's Driveway, Linden Yards and a few other training crews here. Having shows with significance to a much wider geographic area means I know guys I NEVER woulda met if the feds split along regional lines. I think more exposure has its advantages, but I dont knwo that you need more than one fed to do that. I dont think that the Super Series got exposure for MSG because of any "rivalry" with asc, I think they got it cuz its good for business

[Billy Wolt]

i would welcome a new fed if it had some standard rules if not some changes in nas:

standard weigh-ins...either day of, or a set amount of time before. It seems like it changes contest to contest.

Records - state chairs are assigned for a reason. Having to fly willie and/or dione out and pay for their expenses seems really unnecessary and very expensive for a promotor.

i know there are a few other things...when i think of them i'll post.

[Ryan Carey]

I very much agree the same as Charles and Kevin. They both have good points. This sport is doing nothing but growing. ( More competitors, competitions, Heavier events, More weight classes, etc) Dione and Willie have done wonderful things for strongman/woman. The future is very bright for this sport, it will just take time.

[lhprop1]

Not to "me too" everyone else, but Willie and Dione are doing a great job and I doubt the state of strongman in the US would be at this level had someone else been running NAS.

What they've done was take a bunch of amateur meatheads lifting stuff in parking lots and turned it into a legitimate feeder system for the professional ranks on the international scene.

Before, you had Pfister, Gillingham, Schoonie, and a few others representing the US that didn't have to make their way through the amateur ranks. They were selected through the old system. I'm sure the new crop like Ostlund, Ortmayer, Nee, etc would have all made it eventually, but the legitimacy of the NAS pro system brought them onto the international scene a lot sooner, giving them valuable experience at a young age.

The standardization of NAS has also brought up the level of the amateur and when you raise the standard at the amateur level, you also raise the standard at the pro level.

I know people have minor complaints like records, weigh-in procedures, and such, but I doubt anyone could have done as much for the sport in the US as the Wessels have done. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Steve Trippe]

One of the deciding factors in me dropping powerlifting for strongman was how involved politics became between different federations, rules, etc. It sucks that powerlifting has become what it is, and that anyone that tries to stand up for it is immediately cast as "whining" or being an internet warrior. I've judged an IPA meet and directed a USAPL meet, and competed in IPA, USAPL, and APF, and I'm yet to see anything good with the split in powerlifting. I've been told that it is what it is and that I should accept it and stop whining, instead I left the sport for strongman.

I was one of only a few meet directors in NYS, and as a result of all this crap, NYS now has one less person willing to host an annual meet. when I hosted our meet I had to pay for judges from albany to drive up, as well as hotel fare. These were the nearest USAPL judges. However, there were 2 IPA judges in Rochester, and an APF judge in Buffalo, as well as other judges in the area for different federations. If powerlifting was united, I could have run our meet easily and cheaply since I wouldn't have to look as far as albany for a "certain" group of judges. Instead, I dumped over $500 on judging alone. I will never do this again.

I love the sport of powerlifting, but this is just one big example of how federation politics make it near impossible to run a meet.

Even those that think that seperation is a good idea are still the first to point out how awesome some "fantasy" match up between lifters in different organizations. Lots of people thought it was great that the WSM had speed, etc as deciding factors where as IFSA used heavier implements, but even these people talked about how cool it would be to see mariusz vs Z, etc.

Besides that, we are already pulling from a limited talent pool. It's not like more federations means more competitors, it just means the same competitors not competing against each other. That's just silly.

[JimPierce]

I voted no because like most people have been saying it gives us one national champion instead of people trying say one champ is better then the other.
I recently became the NH state chair after competing for the last 6yrs I think it is now and the sport has grown alot in that time thanks to Dione and Willie of course there is always things that can be change to make things better but they have done a great job.
as for the exposure of the sport I think alot of that falls on the state chairs to do what they can I am doing a very small contest at the beginning of the year to set (semi- official records) since state records don't really count nationally but it will be a start and I am hoping to have alot of local media to help spread the word for the state championship that will be held in June.
It is amazing if you look to see how much strongman/woman community as a whole has done fund raising for causes around the country and it is too bad that we don't get more media attention because that could bring in bigger sponsors for the local contests

[Matt Makousky]

All I can say is wow :M:


M2

[dronga]

All I can say is wow :M:


M2

Matt, is that a + or - wow? Just curious.

[Matt Makousky]

Neither sorry lol, just an out loud to myself type thing, just felt like posting.
I have no opioion either way on the subject.


M2

[dronga]

Neither sorry lol, just an out loud to myself type thing, just felt like posting.
I have no opioion either way on the subject.


M2

Ok, cool, just wanted to know.

[dronga]

Seriously people, if you're going to take the time to vote, just put why you're voting either way. Btw, 2 people think I'm a douche, all I can say is YES!!! LOL!!!

[Kevin Cronin]

i would welcome a new fed if it had some standard rules if not some changes in nas:

standard weigh-ins...either day of, or a set amount of time before. It seems like it changes contest to contest.

Records - state chairs are assigned for a reason. Having to fly willie and/or dione out and pay for their expenses seems really unnecessary and very expensive for a promotor.

i know there are a few other things...when i think of them i'll post.
More feds might have - in all likelihood WOULD have - the opposite effect of standardizing. You'd get one fed that allowed 24 hour weigh-ins and another with 2 hour weigh-ins. One fed that allowed resting on the belt, during a continental, another that didnt. Holy crap, think of the number of permutations just in the deadlift! one fed allowing suits, but no straps or hitching, another with suits and hitching, but no straps, a third with no suits, but hitching and straps are ok ... I'd be willing to bet that if NAS ever DID standardize these rules, within 24 hours you'd have people howling that willie and dione were micromanaging and meet promoters' freedoms had been taken away.

Besides all that, how many shows besides keller's dont allow for an early weigh-in? there may be some, but I dont know of them.

I do understand the point with the records, but I understand NAS' point: having one of them there puts the record beyond question. With a record like Orlando's last year, yeah it's pretty much beyond question, and Rob and Keller dont really know each other all that well. But what if Lou broke a record with Ben officiating and it was kind of iffy? What if a CT strength member broke a record with April judging? THose who want state chair-officiated records to count ABSOLUTELY HAVE A POINT ... but it also leaves things a bit open to the possibility of criticism. I'm just sayin

[dcarroll]

Dronga, I voted no. When I started pl'ing in 82' there was the USPF and the international body was IPF. Powerlifting USA had the local meets in regular print, the Nationals and Worlds was in bold print. Now take a look, there's almost as many bold printed contest as local meets. Now, at anyone time you have a couple hundred "National Champions" walking around. Same thing would happen to Strongman and you would end up with a watered down version of contests. No thanks Bro, this is one competitor that says leave it alone.

[MarkSikora]

I voted NO.

Not that it's necessarily a "horrible" idea. But...NAS has been growing and getting better all the time. We have been involved for 5 or 6 years I guess, and the number of contests keeps growing, the number of athletes keeps growing, and the quality of both keeps getting better too.

Is it perfect, no, but what is??

There used to be only two weight classes at most contests. Now, most contests have 3 or 4 weight classes and many have womens divisions. That's a big thing.

Over the past few years a few people have tried to start a "new" league. Sometimes starting some nice internet feuds along the way. So far, I haven't seen one of these leagues take off.

I do think a lot of people would do a contest from a different organization, if that's all that were available. Most of us, however, feel a debt of gratitude to Willie, Dione and NAS for actually letting us pursue our hobby and compete at the local and national level against other people who we otherwise would never get to test ourselves against, not to mention learn from.

I guess the bottom line for me is: I think NAS is a good organization, that Willie and Dione do a very good job, and that I get a lot out of it for my yearly fee. It probably helps that Willie and Dione are great people too.....

As an aside: we are trying to promote our first contest right now for October. It would be a much more difficult propostion w/out the help of NAS.

As for the records etc: I guess that never really bothered me. With equipment not being standard, records are great, but.... I mean, everyone knows guys who can do X amount with Y implement at home. But... come contest time and different implements, they can't do it. Home field advantage and all. (That, and the fact that I will never be a record holder.......)

I mean, does it really matter at the am level?? If you bust out a 400 log as an am, you will be a stud, whether it's an "official" record or not. Look at Kristen Rhodes. She just dumped a 300 stone over a yoke. Now, it's not an offical record because it was not done in an International comp or anything. Does that make it any less of an achievement?? Hell no.

rambling again....I voted no.

Mark

[Wayne Meyer]

Having another federation is a recipe for certian failure on a number of different fronts. Look at what a joke PL has become. The sport has so many federations and has become so watered down winning a meet accounts for very little any more.

NAS worked incredibly hard to maintain the standards it has set for itself. Adding another federation would water down competions and the overall quality of the event.

Besides this has already been attempted and it was a complete and utter failure. Willie and Dionne are doing a fantastic job. If it aint broke don't fix it.

[Jim Harbourne]

I voted no. While it sounds like a good idea, I come from a powerlifting background and it has really hurt the sport. It leads to infighting, different rules and diferent sets of standards. Even though I support using gear in pl'ing, I like strongman because it doesn't really allow the use of much gear at all. While it exposed my weaknesses, it also keeps me on a level playing field with my competition. If the NAS was run like a dictatorship, I could see looking at other options. but is appears to me so far to be very lifter friendly while keeping the rules constant.

[Billy Wolt]

I do understand the point with the records, but I understand NAS' point: having one of them there puts the record beyond question. With a record like Orlando's last year, yeah it's pretty much beyond question, and Rob and Keller dont really know each other all that well. But what if Lou broke a record with Ben officiating and it was kind of iffy? What if a CT strength member broke a record with April judging? THose who want state chair-officiated records to count ABSOLUTELY HAVE A POINT ... but it also leaves things a bit open to the possibility of criticism. I'm just sayin

well, i'm sure there would be enough people competing to call bs if something iffy went on. Other than that, do willie or dione calibrate the weights? aside from them being there, is there anything that really makes it official?

They could easily say that a video of the lift with the judge in sight would be needed and must be sent to them for review.

There must be some way around it.

[srojv]

A couple of things Dan I still like you :FF: My vote is no just look at Powerlifting. As far as NAS records I don't think they should have them to many variables, the only exception would be at Nationals (if the event was the same every year). Nationals I think there should be 3 in all, kind of like baseball 1 East coast 1 West coast and then a main one in the middle with lets say the top 20 from each.

[dronga]

A couple of things Dan I still like you :FF: My vote is no just look at Powerlifting. As far as NAS records I don't think they should have them to many variables, the only exception would be at Nationals (if the event was the same every year). Nationals I think there should be 3 in all, kind of like baseball 1 East coast 1 West coast and then a main one in the middle with lets say the top 20 from each.

I still like you too(sounds gay :eek: ), and you really bring up some interesting points with the east coast /west coast system. Thanks for your input Jon.

[Lou Torres]

Yeah I say no also....to make it simple "don't fix it if it ain't broke" comes to mind to...Even though I do see both sides,I also see the outcome of the negatives outweighing the positives..just IMO

[Matt Schumann]

I voted no....... Ive actually have thought about this before, another federation would be nice but its easy to see problems coming from another federation in the mix. Potential for the Amateur version of Ifsa/wsm lol

Anyone can have a strongman contest w/ or w/out NAS approval. especially with forums like Marunde-muscle to advertise.

Dan Ronga is a douche though.... :EB:

[dronga]

I voted no....... Ive actually have thought about this before, another federation would be nice but its easy to see problems coming from another federation in the mix. Potential for the Amateur version of Ifsa/wsm lol

Anyone can have a strongman contest w/ or w/out NAS approval. especially with forums like Marunde-muscle to advertise.

Dan Ronga is a douche though.... :EB:

I knew you would'nt let me down! :LOL:

[Zack C. Nims]

Like so many have said I don't feel that this is a horrible idea. It's just that this would be bad for the sport. lack of standardization as well as the fact that we would have more that one person running around saying that they are the best. However...

If there were tremendous cooperation between organizations i think it would be kind of a cool idea. It would all have to be standardized and there would have to be a joint nationals.

It would be cool if there was a nationals for each organization then an overall nationals to see who was better and to clarify an undisputed champ.

Another option or alternative that would please everyone would be to expand NAS. Of course there would have to be increased demand.

As for the east and west nationals (Regionals as its called in wrestling) than an overall nationals thats some good thinking with the exception of people like me who can barely afford one nationals.

anyway I'm thinking out loud now. so i'll just stop while i sound somewhat smart.

[Bob Toth]

No for most of the reasons already stated..
the PL'ing example - competition is too weak, exposure is already too low...
NAS is doing a decent job now - there seems to be steady growth, and it's building some great pros..

[brian kling]

I am offended by the D word in the poll, i think this should be erased, it is not family friendly.

[Michael Ambrose]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at the cluster $%#& that is the competitive powerlifting scene in the US today. Do you really want that for strongman too? Need I say more?

[Jamie T]

no. no. no.

[Jim Harbourne]

To add a bit of history to this discussion, Willie was one of the reasons powerlifting took a turn for the worse thru no fault of his own.
APF Nationals (around '96?), Willie went head to head against Steve Goggins in what was one of the greatest pl'ing battles of all time. We're talking 1000# squats, huge benches and 7-800# deads. They went at it all day and in the meet write up, they were ripped apart for depth on the squat. The writer is a bit of a lush and he wasn't even in the area when the lifts were being performed but he felt the need to tear apart the contest and these two lifters. This led to the formation of a new fed that was very lax in squat depth and allowed enough gear it almost put you in another weight class. It started going downhill from there with new feds popping up every time a lifter had to follow the rules and cried when he/she bombed.
There are things we could do to make the NAS better but there seems to be no major problems with it now. Maybe standarized events to qualify for the next level,, each contest having a suprise event so no one can prepare for it in advance, stuff like that.

[Grant Buhr]

My thoughts:

1. There is an extensive, established system in place already.
2. What problems, if any, exist within the current system? Make a list, along with suggestions for solutions.
3. Re-write it to avoid sounding overly critical. This is an important step!
4. Make an appointment and present your recommendations. Volunteer your assistance as much as is practical.
5. If you come across as a well-adjusted individual with good ideas who is eager to assist, Dione will probably be happy for your help.

[srojv]

Cost would be one of the reasons for east coast west coast nationals and then one main one in the middle. Think about it if you live in NY and nationals are in say Virginia that would not be that far to travel then if you placed well enough you could decide to go for the bug one and pro card.

[D.J. Satterfield]

3 Ntls. would make no sense at all. If you were to set something up like that, it would be an East and West regional with the top ? going on to Nationals.
That, to me, would just complicate things even more.

1 Ntls. is all that is needed.

[Arnell Castillo]

I am offended by the D word in the poll, i think this should be erased, it is not family friendly.
hahahaha you can't be serious . lol...

[Billy Wolt]

3 Ntls. would make no sense at all. If you were to set something up like that, it would be an East and West regional with the top ? going on to Nationals.
That, to me, would just complicate things even more.

1 Ntls. is all that is needed.


i personally think the spectacle that is NAS nationals is a bit much. 80 guys or more in one class really skews the scoring especially if it is a timed event and a bunch of guys are within a second of eachother. The difference between getting 1pt or 40 pts has the potential to be minimal.

i'm in favor of doing regional comps that lead to just a dozen guys doing a national competition...

but i supposed nationals does bring in a ton of $$$$$, so why split that up right?

[Eric Todd]

"Standardization" is a word I see popping up in this post several times. In my opinion, standardization is just what we need to kill the sport of strongman. Did all you guys grow up watching strongman? Do you remember the giant plane pull in one WSM. What about the flint stone DL? With standardization we could say goodbye to sweet events like those. The sport has become too standardized overall in the past 10 years as it is, with IFSA's standardized equipment, more rules, etc. I know this is a little off topic, its just that my stomach gets a little sick when I hear strongman and standardized in the same sentence.
ET

[Mike Landrich]

I say no just because the sport would fracture, just like pro strongman with IFSA and WSMSS, or worse yet, PLing with its many feds and different rules.

[Jim Harbourne]

"Standardization" is a word I see popping up in this post several times. In my opinion, standardization is just what we need to kill the sport of strongman. Did all you guys grow up watching strongman? Do you remember the giant plane pull in one WSM. What about the flint stone DL? With standardization we could say goodbye to sweet events like those. The sport has become too standardized overall in the past 10 years as it is, with IFSA's standardized equipment, more rules, etc. I know this is a little off topic, its just that my stomach gets a little sick when I hear strongman and standardized in the same sentence.
ET
I can see your point on this.

[D.J. Satterfield]

i personally think the spectacle that is NAS nationals is a bit much. 80 guys or more in one class really skews the scoring especially if it is a timed event and a bunch of guys are within a second of eachother. The difference between getting 1pt or 40 pts has the potential to be minimal.

i'm in favor of doing regional comps that lead to just a dozen guys doing a national competition...

but i supposed nationals does bring in a ton of $$$$$, so why split that up right?

I agree in part Billy that with so many guys in one division, 2 reps or a few seconds can be the difference between the top 10 and bottom 10. Before everyone starts posting the past Ntls. results that it may be more than 2 reps or a few seconds between the top and bottom, calm down, you get the point here.
I can see where that may discourage some people from participating but I do believe, that in the end, in most years, the best has always won.

I personally like the idea of regionals leading to nationals.

Yes, nationals does bring in a fair amount of money to NAS. Unfortunately,not the promoters.

[dronga]

I agree in part Billy that with so many guys in one division, 2 reps or a few seconds can be the difference between the top 10 and bottom 10. Before everyone starts posting the past Ntls. results that it may be more than 2 reps or a few seconds between the top and bottom, calm down, you get the point here.
I can see where that may discourage some people from participating but I do believe, that in the end, in most years, the best has always won.

I personally like the idea of regionals leading to nationals.

Yes, nationals does bring in a fair amount of money to NAS. Unfortunately,not the promoters.

DJ,
I've never promoted a show, so i don't know about the $ thing, but would'nt it be a great incentive for the lifters to recieve cash prizes, you know, to offset the cost of training, travel, etc. Why Does'nt NAS divvy up the $, what it comes down to, is if there is $ to be made, you'll probably see alot more people competing.

[Kevin Cronin]

As for the east and west nationals (Regionals as its called in wrestling) than an overall nationals thats some good thinking with the exception of people like me who can barely afford one nationals.

Bingo. I LOVE this idea, but I think i remember it being brought up in the past, and having it pointed out that in addition to the cost, people are now having to commit to TWO dates instead of just one. So if your buddy's wedding is during a regional qualifier, then you're now out of two shows because you cant make it. Or if the east coast champ had to take vacation time to get from ny to sc and can't take any to get to nats youre missing one of the top 3 or 4 guys in the guys, and THE (supposed) top guy from the East

[srojv]

Todd, I agree with you I would love to see the old stuff come back odd lifts and loads. There is only so many ways you can lift a log or axle and I think the public can relate more to a car being flipped or an engine block being pressed. ( a little off topic)

[MarkSikora]

Todd, I agree with you I would love to see the old stuff come back odd lifts and loads. There is only so many ways you can lift a log or axle and I think the public can relate more to a car being flipped or an engine block being pressed. ( a little off topic)

Jon,

Not to hijack: but check out The Showdown in Sactown on Oct. 25...

[brian kling]

hahahaha you can't be serious . lol...

No i just think its funny how when other members say particular words nothing happens.

[Brock]

I voted no, I think it is solid the way it is set up.

[scott brockelman]

It's not a good thing, coming from Powerlifting I've seen what can happen. Dionne and Willie have a good thing going. While nothing is perfect, the alternative can be worse.

Scott

[DaneGarreau]

....../

To be fair, ASC is something completely different from NAS.

As far as NAS goes, the sanctioning fees are very small. Also, NAS offers insurance(which has been required by two of our host contest locations) for a small fee, as well as Willie and Dione giving great guidance.

Are there a few minor adjustments that I would like to see made? sure, but on a whole the entire organization is run great; I really have no complaints.

[srojv]

Mark, those types of events are what I was talking about cool but to far for me, hopefully other promoters will catch on.

Has anyone else noticed that this year there was a lot more shows it seems that it has almost become watered down, meaning that turn out for shows have been less because there are more to hit in a year. I would think if there are more than one fed. it would be watered down even more.

[JimPierce]

Mark, those types of events are what I was talking about cool but to far for me, hopefully other promoters will catch on.

Has anyone else noticed that this year there was a lot more shows it seems that it has almost become watered down, meaning that turn out for shows have been less because there are more to hit in a year. I would think if there are more than one fed. it would be watered down even more.

I have noticed that too my contest I was lucky I had 30 athletes but most shows seem to be only having 20 or so now.
I think one thing promoters can do to bring up the numbers is offer something different for events not the same log press , axle stuff we did a keg DL( it looked really cool with 4 kegs loaded on the bar) and a hercules hold made from some huge wood timbers, the judges actually asked if we could hold up the contest so they could try it out because it was different

[dronga]

....../


Mark,
first off, thanks for your response. Secondly, I'm just curious as to where all of the $ that is paid by competitiors(contest application) is going? And I have to disagree with you on the $ aspect, personally, I would love to get a monetary prize, rather than a trophy or a plaque, I, and many others, including you, bust our butts training, eating, competing, buying equipment, or buying supplies to make our own,etc. It would be nice to get a few $'s to offset some of the cost. And, I'm not an internet warrior, never have been, I'm taking the best points, and I'm going to post a synopsis on The Anvil, so don't worry, this thread is not for nothing.

[brian kling]

I have noticed that too my contest I was lucky I had 30 athletes but most shows seem to be only having 20 or so now.
I think one thing promoters can do to bring up the numbers is offer something different for events not the same log press , axle stuff we did a keg DL( it looked really cool with 4 kegs loaded on the bar) and a hercules hold made from some huge wood timbers, the judges actually asked if we could hold up the contest so they could try it out because it was different

I agree, it seems to be the same repetitive stuff and it would be great to start seeing shows with new events like the 55gal drum carry, keg toss, etc. some of the stuff you see on tv that draws in a good crowd to watch.

[DaveMihalov]

I think we need one unified amateur and pro federation. Look at all the amazing accomplishments from American strongmen over the last few years that go un-noticed by the majority of the American public. Derek Poundstone had one of the most amazing contests ever at ASM two years ago but unless you were involved with the sport you didn't hear about it. Now that he is doing the Super series shows many people in the general public know who he is. I think for publicity purposes and to make the sport more followed by the general public we need one amateur federation that feeds into one pro federation.

I second this without a doubt, and talking to a bunch of the Lightweight Pros out in Dallas they feel the same way too.

[dronga]

Before I forget, i would like to thank everyone who has participated in this poll, there has been some really good discussion, and some great points. Thanks everyone for keeping it civil, I know controversial topics like this sometimes get heated, and then locked. Thanks everyone!

[Scott Markowitz]

I'm just curious as to where all of the $ that is paid by competitiors(contest application) is going?

I know for the contest I promoted, the entry fees went to the prizes. I was fortunate to not have to get any new equipment, had a free venue, and was able to work it out so that I did not have to bring in a Wessels. Even at that, I still ended up in the hole.

[Darin Heltemes]

Initially, I voted yes. Then I read everyone's responses, and most people make very valid points about standardization and such.

I'm with you in wanting more exposure and definitely more contests. But, I think the majority have it right here.

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is a better name for the sport. Nothing against Strongman; there's just got to be a better name out there. Plus, the term strongman is too generalized. You have people referring to Oly lifters, PLers, and even BBers as being the strongest man in the world.

[JoeCSnavely]

Voted No.

How about one Amatuer federation with different divisions under ONE federation? This would increase the exposure regionally while keeping the guidance under one jurisdiction. All things need tweaked, revamped, and refreshed from time to time. The one's that don't eventually die off. List your critiques of NAS and possible solutions and forward them on to Dione or Willie.

I do like the idea of the regional qualifiers for east and west coming into one National Championship. My problem is that the dates or time frames change too much from year to year for Nationals (ranging from mid september to mid November). If there was a 2-week block period when the Am's knew that Nationals/Regionals (don't have to know exactly where) were taking place each year then they could better plan to attend. I know that this is location and venue driven but if your up for promoting NATs then this standardized time frame should be too much of a problem.

Good thread and hopefully a productive one.

Joe

[dronga]

One thought, why not have The Nationals at the same location every year, like the Arnold.

[Kevin Cronin]

I would love to get a monetary prize, rather than a trophy or a plaque, I, and many others, including you, bust our butts training, eating, competing, buying equipment, or buying supplies to make our own,etc. It would be nice to get a few $'s to offset some of the cost.
I kind of feel the opposite dan. Theres no way I'm going to make back the money I've spent on a contest, so I feel like that money may as well go towards a good cause (charity.) I prefer to compete in those types of contests, and was disappointed that I couldnt do Rahway this year not only because it looked like a kick butt contest, but also because it was for a good cause

That kind of leads me to Jon's point, that there are so many comps its almost becoming watered down. It's too bad that theres no real way to coordinate things, I would've love to have done Jedi's show this year, but felt 4 weeks after NJ it wouldnt be fair to myself to try to compete again. I wanted to do Rahway but had a conflict. I'm really glad Linden yards is doing a November show, i was worried I'd have to wait until paxton to get another show in. But any type of coordination and you'd get MD guys trying to coordinate with NJ guys so they can do both shows, the NJ guys are try to coord with MD and NY, NY with NJ and MA, MA w/ ME and so on ... just a nightmare. But i def agree with the sentiment, and thats why I like the pro ams you know that just about all the top dawgs are gonna be there

EDIT to add: Dan, I agree completely that it would be awesome to have Nats in the same place every year. I was asking willie about why they hadnt gone back to Vegas this year, and it was because of the cost, and a lack of support from circus circus. I know he mentioned that they spent A LOT of money on the banquet. I enjoyed the banquet, but just the experience of being in Vegas, with great weather, random people watching the contest and stuff to do afterwards was fun, I would definitely trade the banquet for a few slices of pizza if it meant having nats in vegas again

[dronga]

I kind of feel the opposite dan. Theres no way I'm going to make back the money I've spent on a contest, so I feel like that money may as well go towards a good cause (charity.) I prefer to compete in those types of contests, and was disappointed that I couldnt do Rahway this year not only because it looked like a kick butt contest, but also because it was for a good cause

That kind of leads me to Jon's point, that there are so many comps its almost becoming watered down. It's too bad that theres no real way to coordinate things, I would've love to have done Jedi's show this year, but felt 4 weeks after NJ it wouldnt be fair to myself to try to compete again. I wanted to do Rahway but had a conflict. I'm really glad Linden yards is doing a November show, i was worried I'd have to wait until paxton to get another show in. But any type of coordination and you'd get MD guys trying to coordinate with NJ guys so they can do both shows, the NJ guys are try to coord with MD and NY, NY with NJ and MA, MA w/ ME and so on ... just a nightmare. But i def agree with the sentiment, and thats why I like the pro ams you know that just about all the top dawgs are gonna be there

Kevin,
Thanks for posting, and I respect your views on this subject.

[D.J. Satterfield]

A few extra things to touch on.

If it were to ever come to regionals leading into nationals, then the dates should be set in stone(or thereabouts) every year, kind of like the Arnold, etc.
For that matter, nationals should be set up in advance so people can plan accordingly. My thoughts are that the people/promoters heading up all ntls. (open, master, womens, teen, PFM) should get together at the end of the year to coordinate the dates for the upcoming year. People would know in advance what is going on and could plan accordingly.
(Thinking along Joe's line here)

Definitely too many shows to close together. (Thinking along Kevin's line here)That, in addition to the economy, has been a huge reason in the lower attendance at shows. I know up here, in our 4 state area, we state chairs coordinate with each other when our shows are going to be so we don't sit them right on top of each other.

[dronga]

Heres my plan guys, I'm going to let this run until Monday of next week, so if you think of anything, post it up. I'm going to draft a post and place it on the Anvil, hopefully Willie and Dione consider some of the options.
So far I have:
-Regionals(East and West), then Nationals
-Same location for Nats. every year, and if possible, same week(same days would be impossible)
-Get rid of any kept records because we do not want standardization
-More monetary awards

[Mark A Cummings]

Mark,
first off, thanks for your response. Secondly, I'm just curious as to where all of the $ that is paid by competitiors(contest application) is going? And I have to disagree with you on the $ aspect, personally, I would love to get a monetary prize, rather than a trophy or a plaque, I, and many others, including you, bust our butts training, eating, competing, buying equipment, or buying supplies to make our own,etc. It would be nice to get a few $'s to offset some of the cost. And, I'm not an internet warrior, never have been, I'm taking the best points, and I'm going to post a synopsis on The Anvil, so don't worry, this thread is not for nothing.


I'm not claiming to know anything about NAS's operating costs or budget constraints, but in regards to your question about contest applications, its probably not a whole lot of money. Its certainly not enough to do cash prizes at each competition. My reasoning: if there are 100 comps a year and the sanctioning fee was $100 per comp (which its not) then that would only add up to $10,000. Not a whole lot of money, certainly not enough for cash prizes at each of those comps and still maintain an operating budget for a corporation. I do know that alot of times the money from the NAS t-shirts that Willie sells at comps is donated back to whatever charity the comp was raising money for. But again, I can't speak for Willie and Dione as to where the money goes. I know that the only money they require for a NAS show is the sanctioning fee, what the promoter does with the entry fees is the promoter's business.

I do like the idea of having Nats within a consistent time period year to year, but not necessarily the same location. First of all, I like to travel to different places. I also like to see what different promoters do at their event. I know personally speaking, I have resources here in Louisiana that someone from Oregon doesn't have, and vice versa. Different promoters at different locations are able to bring different things to the table for each National Championship, sometimes good and bad. For instance, I enjoyed the show in Vegas, but if I never go back to Vegas again for anything, it won't break my heart. Nothing against Vegas, but it just wasn't me, had nothing to do with the show.

And while I agree with Darin in regards to all the other strength sports having someone that they call the "strongest", I would be interested to hear what Darin thinks would be a "better" name for the sport. As long as I can remember its always been Strongman.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Dan-

Not beating up on you, but posting a link to this poll on the anvil forum is probably not too good. It struck me that this would be similiar to someone coming into your business and putting up signs/polls about a business rendering the same services, INSIDE OF YOUR BUSINESS, asking why it would be a good idea to have the new competitor lol...

My opinion, Willie and Dione are standup. I think things should be done slightly different, but I am not running the organization, nor do I desire to. It takes ALOT of effort/time/investment to keep a national organization such as NAS running. All of this is just nitpicking unless someone Steps up to the mic., and that is just not going to happen.

So, maybe we should quit complaining and get behind the people who are putiing in the effort? Just sayin' ...continue disscussing LOL...

[dronga]

Dan-

Not beating up on you, but posting a link to this poll on the anvil forum is probably not too good. It struck me that this would be similiar to someone coming into your business and putting up signs/polls about a business rendering the same services, INSIDE OF YOUR BUSINESS, asking why it would be a good idea to have the new competitor lol...

My opinion, Willie and Dione are standup. I think things should be done slightly different, but I am not running the organization, nor do I desire to. It takes ALOT of effort/time/investment to keep a national organization such as NAS running. All of this is just nitpicking unless someone Steps up to the mic., and that is just not going to happen.

So, maybe we should quit complaining and get behind the people who are putiing in the effort? Just sayin' ...continue disscussing LOL...

Jay,
Thanks for posting, And I think you missunderstood me, I'm not going to post a link to this poll, I'm just going to post up some suggestions that some people here feel might help this sport get a little more mainstream.

[dronga]

Jay,
Thanks for posting, And I think you missunderstood me, I'm not going to post a link to this poll, I'm just going to post up some suggestions that some people here feel might help this sport get a little more mainstream.
edit to add:
I'm not beating up the Wessels either, it must be hard to do what they do, I give them alot of credit, but sometimes its good to have an outside source shed some light on things.

Oh crap, I just responded to myself, I'm so internet reatarded!

[Grant Buhr]

I'm just going to post up some suggestions that some people here feel might help this sport get a little more mainstream.

Nice idea, but I suggest that you do this via email, instead of posting in their public forum. People become defensive when they or their methods are subject to public criticism, no matter how well intended. That's not what you are trying to accomplish here.

[dronga]

Nice idea, but I suggest that you do this via email, instead of posting in their public forum. People become defensive when they or their methods are subject to public criticism, no matter how well intended. That's not what you are trying to accomplish here.

Grant,

Thats a great point, and will be taken into consideration, like I said, the last thing I want to do is "crap" in someones house.
I just checked the Anvil, and someone posted a link to this poll, it would have been nice if the person that posted it would have asked me, Like I said, 'm not here to slam or slander anyone, I'm just look ing for fresh ideas to keep the sport growing. And so far, I've got alot of postive points.

[D.J. Satterfield]

Grant,

Thats a great point, and will be taken into consideration, like I said, the last thing I want to do is "crap" in someones house.
I just checked the Anvil, and someone posted a link to this poll, it would have been nice if the person that posted it would have asked me, Like I said, 'm not here to slam or slander anyone, I'm just look ing for fresh ideas to keep the sport growing. And so far, I've got alot of postive points.

Yeah, that wasn't a real smooth move.

[Jay Hagadorn]

I just checked the Anvil, and someone posted a link to this poll, it would have been nice if the person that posted it would have asked me,

I looked on the Anvil and saw that, making an assumption that was you, my apologies.

[dronga]

I looked on the Anvil and saw that, making an assumption that was you, my apologies.
No problem Jay, it caught me off guard too.

[Billy Wolt]

Billy, I think Dione's said that she is less trusting of allowing other people to help with the business of NAS since it was (_IF I RECALL CORRECTLY_) a state chair who offered to be Dione's VP or something, and then used the knowledge gained to start the USSF, which I think had all of 2 shows.

so anyway, i can understand once burnt, twice shy. NYSC probably wouldnt mind you offering them suggestions on equipment to buy, but I dont think they want you opening up their books to do a cost analysis.

well.... becoming VP and keeping contest results updated are two different things. I would volunteer to help you move, but I wouldn't ask to become your accountant.

I don't go to nysc btw...i go to a $75/year hole-the-wall

[Jay Hagadorn]

<table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="tcat" colspan="4">The thing I find interesting at this point in your poll is that only 4 people voted for the 3rd option :LOL:

View Poll Results: Would you like to see another federation besides NAS? </td> </tr> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> Yes, thats a great idea. (post why) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">102</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">40.64%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> No, thats a horrible idead(post why) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">145</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">57.77%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> (And, keeping with the Matt Brouse tradition) You're a douche. </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">4</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">1.59%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="tfoot" colspan="4" align="center">Voters: 251.
Just giving you a hard time Dan!

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[dronga]

<table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="tcat" colspan="4">The thing I find interesting at this point in your poll is that only 4 people voted for the 3rd option :LOL:

View Poll Results: Would you like to see another federation besides NAS? </td> </tr> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> Yes, thats a great idea. (post why) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">102</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">40.64%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> No, thats a horrible idead(post why) </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">145</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">57.77%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> (And, keeping with the Matt Brouse tradition) You're a douche. </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%">
</td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">4</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">1.59%</td> </tr> <!-- END TEMPLATE: pollresult --> <tr> <td class="tfoot" colspan="4" align="center">Voters: 251.
Just giving you a hard time Dan!

</td></tr></tbody></table>


Jay,
I'm surprised about that result, i thought eveyone thought I was a douche! :M:

[Mike Landrich]

I'm just curious as to where all of the $ that is paid by competitiors(contest application) is going?

sanctioning fee
insurance
trophies
State chair or Willie/Dione (gas and lodging vs airfare/rental car/lodging)
t-shirts
party tent if needed
Refreshments


Not to be a jerk, but run a show and tell me how much you make. I was shocked at how little I made for the Dunkirk Little League and I got a lot of competitors at my show.

[Mike Landrich]

Jay,
I'm surprised about that result, i thought eveyone thought I was a douche! :M:

It was simple multiple choice. Let us pick the best 2 out of 3 and it would've been 102/145/251

[Kevin Cronin]

I don't go to nysc btw...i go to a $75/year hole-the-wall
oh for goodness sake, it was an example anyway

[davebeers]

no, it would water down the competition and then this sport would be like powerlifting

Its nice to go to a small gold level show and have 10 guys to compete against and up to 30 in a pro-am

You go to your average PL meet and you might be the only one in your class....where's the competition in that?


Its working so well, and willie and dionne do an excellent job.......so why change it?



And for the record i wouldn't be upset if every dollar of every entry fee went into the wessels pocket

[Garrick Daft]

NAS is a great organization, there should be no other.

[davebeers]

Sorry guys but at this point I think we are just....
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/R3bauer/beating-a-dead-horse.gif
clearly not if 40% think that its a great idea

[ADAMBAUER]

clearly not if 40% think that its a great idea
I just think that there are those that think it would be great and others that don't but reasons for both have been posted. I personally voted no due to the logistics that are involved and the political BS that would ineveitably happen. This guy could beat this guy, this strongman fed is geared more toward static strength or vice versa. We have all heard these argument before with WSMSS vs. IFSA do we really want?need that kind of split in the sport we all love? Thats it for me on this subject.

[Mike Hemlepp]

DJ,
I've never promoted a show, so i don't know about the $ thing, but would'nt it be a great incentive for the lifters to recieve cash prizes, you know, to offset the cost of training, travel, etc. Why Does'nt NAS divvy up the $, what it comes down to, is if there is $ to be made, you'll probably see alot more people competing.


I have worked and emcee'd more contests than I can count. If there is a contest in these three states (NC, SC, and VA) I am likely to be there. DJ is incorrect; NAS doesn't make any money, the promoter is in control of the money.

Tom Kaufman hosted the Police, Fire Military National Championship in Columbia, SC a few weeks ago. The winner of each event got $200. Frank Domingoes went home with $600 in his pocket. It brought out the best athletes!

And it was done because Tom Kaufman is a good promoter and got sponsors and did an excellent contest, on time, on budget and raised good money Special Olympics at the same time. NAS had nothing to do with it.

You want better contests? Get better promoters.

Mike Hemlepp

[DaneGarreau]

I have worked and emcee'd more contests than I can count. If there is a contest in these three states (NC, SC, and VA) I am likely to be there. DJ is incorrect; NAS doesn't make any money, the promoter is in control of the money.

Tom Kaufman hosted the Police, Fire Military National Championship in Columbia, SC a few weeks ago. The winner of each event got $200. Frank Domingoes went home with $600 in his pocket. It brought out the best athletes!

And it was done because Tom Kaufman is a good promoter and got sponsors and did an excellent contest, on time, on budget and raised good money Special Olympics at the same time. NAS had nothing to do with it.

You want better contests? Get better promoters.

Mike Hemlepp

Good post Mike.

And like others have allready said, if you want to help the sport then give back.

The Carolina people are great at this!! Hemlepp has MC'd at least 2 of the contest I have competed in. Mike Jonston came down to GA to MC our contest this year, and got rave reviews from competitors and family members. I still see two of the guys helping spot/load Tom and Mike's contests that I saw helping at the first ever strongman contest I went to in 2003!!!

If you really want to make strongman a better sport, get out there and either help promote or promote a contest yourself.

[Mike Landrich]

If you really want to make strongman a better sport, get out there and either help promote or promote a contest yourself.
:mag: :mag: :mag:

If there's a contest in your area and you don't want to compete, call the promoter and offer to help. Guaranteed it will be appreciated

[DaneGarreau]

:mag: :mag: :mag:

If there's a contest in your area and you don't want to compete, call the promoter and offer to help. Guaranteed it will be appreciated

Yep, I'm stealing this from the KCStrongman message board, but it has been mathmatically proven that no contest can have too many spotters/loaders.

[Alex.Truman]

As previously stated, another fed. would divide the sport up, and nobody wants it to be like powerlifting.

[Mike Landrich]

Yep, I'm stealing this from the KCStrongman message board, but it has been mathmatically proven that no contest can have too many spotters/loaders.


You know it brother.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Guys-

I cleaned the thread up and took out some posts. Let's keep this non-offensive to the Wessels or it will get deleted. Don't bash eachother or make assumptions...

[Harley D]

My vote is no. Beyond a great athletic organization, what the Wessels' have built here is a community. I've been told that there are roughly 2500+ members of NAS nationwide. Yet how many of you have showed up to a contest anywhere in the country and Willie and/or Dione knew you by sight or by name without having to ask. Felt good, didn't it? Now if there were one or two more federations, you would go from "Justin" or "Harley" or "Tom" to "competitor number 14". There would be so much going on that no one would know who anybody was. Trust me, I started in 1999- before NASS was really going and that was how it was. And besides that, competitons would be so watered down it wouldn't even be fun. For those competitors who have had some success, isn't more fun to compete at the platinum plus level and work your ass off than to clean house at a tiny show and win without breaking a sweat?! Most of us agree that there might be too many shows now. Can you imagine another 50 or 60 in another federation??? NAS isn't perfect, there are some things they could tweak, but I think we have it better than we realize. You know what they say about the grass on the other side of the fence...

[dronga]

It was simple multiple choice. Let us pick the best 2 out of 3 and it would've been 102/145/251
Thats what i figured! ;)

[Matt Makousky]

LOL if the horse is dead, why does that man keep beating it :marv:


M2

[D.J. Satterfield]

I have worked and emcee'd more contests than I can count. If there is a contest in these three states (NC, SC, and VA) I am likely to be there. DJ is incorrect; NAS doesn't make any money, the promoter is in control of the money.
Tom Kaufman hosted the Police, Fire Military National Championship in Columbia, SC a few weeks ago. The winner of each event got $200. Frank Domingoes went home with $600 in his pocket. It brought out the best athletes!

And it was done because Tom Kaufman is a good promoter and got sponsors and did an excellent contest, on time, on budget and raised good money Special Olympics at the same time. NAS had nothing to do with it.

You want better contests? Get better promoters.

Mike Hemlepp

No Mike, I am not incorrect. Let me clarify as I have already had this discussion with Willie. NAS does too make money, in the form of new/re-up memberships and the sanctioning fee they get for Nationals and every other contest. They will be the first to tell you that they are a business, so you need to re-check your statement "NAS doesn't make any money".
The only money the promoter is in control of is the entry fees.

I am done posting about this. Anyone else has issues they want to discuss with me, pm me.

[Mark A Cummings]

Guys-

I cleaned the thread up and took out some posts. Let's keep this non-offensive to the Wessels or it will get deleted. Don't bash eachother or make assumptions...


I'm extremely pro-Wessels, how come one of my posts got deleted then?

[Jay Hagadorn]

I'm extremely pro-Wessels, how come one of my posts got deleted then?

Mark-

Maybe it had nothing to do with that...let's keep the thread objective.

[Eric Todd]

Yep, I'm stealing this from the KCStrongman message board, but it has been mathmatically proven that no contest can have too many spotters/loaders.
Sounds like a Bad-A** forum!
ET

[Eric Todd]

I would like to continue discussing it with you DJ.
ET

[barabas47]

This thread is very interesting. My .02

I have compete in amature strongman, BB'ing, and PL'ing. We all know that PL'ing has a ton of organizations and get's cluttered.

The NPC for BB am's has a membership fee twice the amount of NAS. The NPC membership expires for everyone on Dec 31 of that year. So if you do a BB show in Nov for the NPC, you membership expires at the end of the year. So you really are paying for 2 months, NAS gives you the full 365 days.

At NPC natinoals, you must stay at the hotel the NPC tells you to stay at and stay their minimum number of days. There is no prize money in NPC as fas as I can remember. Some NAS shows do have money.

As an amature organization, NAS seems to keep the fees cheaper than others and reasonable. The dont tell you where to sleep and when to arrive and leave. I think am's for strongman have it pretty nice. Plus the sport is objective not subjective.


As for PRO strongman, BB and PL'ing. There is no money in any of them in america. We all need a real job except for the top 3 BBers, and that's only because they got sponsorship money.

If someone wants to start another AM strongman division, go ahead. But honestly. Dealing with AM and PRO storngman is a pain. We all know we are difficult to work with. I sure would not want the Wessel's job and i'm pretty sure if we knew what they actually made if would be laughablea dn nobody would want to do what they do for us. I am just thankful someone is willing to put up with us.

[Kevin Cronin]

This thread is very interesting. My .02

I have compete in amature strongman, BB'ing, and PL'ing. We all know that PL'ing has a ton of organizations and get's cluttered.

The NPC for BB am's has a membership fee twice the amount of NAS. The NPC membership expires for everyone on Dec 31 of that year. So if you do a BB show in Nov for the NPC, you membership expires at the end of the year. So you really are paying for 2 months, NAS gives you the full 365 days.

At NPC natinoals, you must stay at the hotel the NPC tells you to stay at and stay their minimum number of days. There is no prize money in NPC as fas as I can remember. Some NAS shows do have money.



Eh, serves them right for being bodybuilders :M:

[Ryan Bracewell]

Im seeing very few people responding with "yes" in the replies, yet there are over a 100 votes for yes. Are yall afraid to speak your mind?

Personally I feel its a horrible idea. I didnt read all 10 pages of replies but from what I can see the only real complaint is over a few rules. If some of you guys feel strong enough about needing a change, then try to become the state chair and get in contact with the Wessels. They run a growing organization, and most growing business do so by listening to people.

[Matt Makousky]

I think the horse is getting up.......wait... :T:


M2

[Billy Wolt]

I think the horse is getting up.......wait... :T:


M2


aren't you beating the dead horse of the dead horse joke?

[Matt Makousky]

aren't you beating the dead horse of the dead horse joke?

Yes hence the laughing at what this thread has become :FF:
Just having fun....

M2

[Ryan Brown]

Ryan,

First off, thanks for your response, and I see your point. But, why not have a few amateur feds that feed into a pro fed. Businesses look at exposure, the more exposure the sport gets, the better. Exposure could mean more competitors, and possibly cash prizes to offset the cost of training and travel.

I'm not sure how adding another Fed would add more competitiors. It's not like NAS caps the number of contests. Each year there are more and more.

There is a lot of flexibility in NAS--each promoter can basically run the contest how they see fit within certain bounds. So why not just run a contest and have it be NAS? It is a lot of work to create the Nationals, etc., etc. Splintering what we have now and dividing resources would simply lead to less quality I think--therefore reducing the chances that top athletes would be willing to become a part of it.

[Matthew White]

This is a big discussion and I don't have time to read through it so I'm throwin in my 2 cents here sorry if someone already said it. If someone had the finances to start their own federation it would be MUCH MUCH wiser to add those finances to the current federation to help it grow in size and marketability. By that way rather than potentially splitting competitors and fans between which they like more, they are still going to the same place, only now they can afford a fancy light show and cheerleaders at half time!

[Eric Todd]

I'm not sure how adding another Fed would add more competitiors. It's not like NAS caps the number of contests. Each year there are more and more.

There is a lot of flexibility in NAS--each promoter can basically run the contest how they see fit within certain bounds. So why not just run a contest and have it be NAS? It is a lot of work to create the Nationals, etc., etc. Splintering what we have now and dividing resources would simply lead to less quality I think--therefore reducing the chances that top athletes would be willing to become a part of it.


That is an excellent point. There are already very little in the way of resources (ie sponsorship money and things of this nature) for strongman.
ET

[Matt Schumann]

WOW! After I posted in this thread I havent paid much attention to it. Then I check the Anvil and read everything on there.... Ive tried to catch up on both threads and I havent really seen anything disrespectful, I just think Dan was just bringing up a topic that no one has really talked about...

Back when I last checked this thread there were only 2 votes for "yes", now over 100! I personally would rather not see more federations other than NAS. Look at what happened with the whole WSM/IFSA split. IMO it was horrible for the sport and it seems that things are slowly starting to get better. I think it could be a huge mistake to repeat that "split" in the amatuer level.... 2 national champions, 2 state champions, 2 different pro cards etc... who knows...

Im sure we all have little things that bug us with NAS's system. But every organization has problems. NFL adds and drops things every season, MLB just added replay for questionable home runs, every league isnt perfect...

Why arent there more votes for Ronga being a Douche?

Which one of you hung up on Dione when she called???


Grant,

Thats a great point, and will be taken into consideration, like I said, the last thing I want to do is "crap" in someones house.
I just checked the Anvil, and someone posted a link to this poll, it would have been nice if the person that posted it would have asked me, Like I said, 'm not here to slam or slander anyone, I'm just look ing for fresh ideas to keep the sport growing. And so far, I've got alot of postive points.

[CharlesDMickey]

Lots of votes for a new Fed. But I have yet to read a valid/viable reason why.

Willie and Dione are good people. If you've had any dealings with them you'll know that. If your listening to second hand info or rumor - well, whatever.

Willie and Dione are just like the rest of us - Iron Smashing Meatheads to the core. They have a love for the Iron Games and they want what is best for strongman.

Contest Promotion is HARD WORK, I know I’m working on one now. But working with NAS is the easy part!

For all you "new fed" guys - put your money up and go for it! It's been tried before and failed. Why did it fail? Because NAS is a GREAT organization and it will be very hard to beat.

Don’t try to fix what is not broken.

[Derek Williams]

I voted no because like most people have been saying it gives us one national champion instead of people trying say one champ is better then the other.
I recently became the NH state chair after competing for the last 6yrs I think it is now and the sport has grown alot in that time thanks to Dione and Willie of course there is always things that can be change to make things better but they have done a great job.
as for the exposure of the sport I think alot of that falls on the state chairs to do what they can I am doing a very small contest at the beginning of the year to set (semi- official records) since state records don't really count nationally but it will be a start and I am hoping to have alot of local media to help spread the word for the state championship that will be held in June.
It is amazing if you look to see how much strongman/woman community as a whole has done fund raising for causes around the country and it is too bad that we don't get more media attention because that could bring in bigger sponsors for the local contests

Jim, first, congrats on becoming the new NH state chairperson. I would think that if you want media recognition, you need to send out press releases. That will get you some media attention. Maybe also call some local radio stations, TV stations, etc.

[Craig Pfisterer]

I really don't see any whining here as some are claiming on the Anvil board thread. This has been fairly civil and with most posts just commenting on possible changes and suggestions to improve the NAS. Not all criticisms are attacks. The sport is growing immensely in that last few years and the federation will need to adapt as well. I prefer the single unified NAS for competition.

[Derek Williams]

I voted yes, that would be good to have competition. I don't really see anything wrong with having someone else try to do better. I have absolutely no problems with the way contests are run now, but that's not to say that someone else might not come up with new and improved things that maybe haven't even been thought of before.

I feel that if someone were to try to start a new federation, it would create at least initial interest, and it would be likely that competitors would try competing in the new fed, and fans would go watch their contests to see how it is. If it is as good or better than NAS, people will continue to compete in it and it will grow. If it is not as good, it will die and go out of business. Or they could be about equal, and both could survive.

I know that many people think there are way too many feds in powerlifting and I kinda agree - there are a lot. But if you look at pro wrestling (I know, its not a "real" sport), but still, WWE's programming became MUCH better when WCW became a major player and started beating them in the weekly ratings. Then when WCW folded and WWE bought them out, I noticed a definite drop off in the quality of matches shown on WWE TV...that is, until TNA became a major player in pro wrestling and once again provided competition for WWE. Then WWE started having better matches on TV again because they had competition from TNA. I personally like TNA a lot better than WWE. WWE has too much of a "corporate" feel for me. I also like the X division, the small cruiswerweights of pro wrestling, because I think their matches are better, much faster paced, and more exciting than the "heavyweight" matches.

In pro wrestling, I am personally glad that there are 2 major federations in the USA and in Japan. For one thing, it gives the wrestlers a chance to work for someone else if the fed they are in doesn't treat them right. It also forces the feds to improve programming to get better matches on TV and put together better PPV's. If a wrestler doesn't like working for TNA, he can go work for WWE. In Japan, if he doesn't like New Japan, he can go work for All Japan. It also helps improve the wrestlers' pay too, I am sure. WWE has to pay their guys well and keep them happy to keep them from jumping to TNA when their contract expires, and TNA has to do the same.

The same could happen in strongman. Someone could put together something that is even better than NAS, and it could take over, or someone could try and it could flop. Or someone could try and it could be equal and both could survive. But I have absolutely no problem with someone at least trying.

There have been a number of "alternative" pro football leagues that have tried over the years to compete with the NFL but none have ever succeeded. USFL, XFL, etc. all failed because none could do it as well as the NFL does it.

I like the fact that we have the IFSA and WSMSS. Each show has its good points. IFSA is heavier, and WSM is faster paced and (I think) their shows make for better TV. But I enjoy watching both.

The bottom line is that I have never had a problem with anyone who wanted to try to start a competitive organization and do things better than they are already being done. That's the beauty of the free market system.

Derek