Omg !!! What The Heck Is Goin On Here ?!?! [Archive]

Arnell Castillo

09-09-2008, 04:26 AM

sorry guys I know this is random and has nothing at all to do with strength athletics .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7543089.stm
On September 10th, CERN - the largest centre of particle physics research in the world, will switch on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and in the process begin arguably the most ambitious science experiment ever undertaken. This "Big Bang Machine" will recreate conditions just a billionth of a second after the big bang and in the process may answer some of the most profound questions about our universe and how it all began.

By smashing particles together at speeds 99.99% the speed of light, scientists hope to answer some of the greatest mysteries in particle physics. What is mass? What is dark matter - the invisible but massive substance that fills the universe? Why is there no antimatter ? Are extra dimensions and parallel universes science fact rather than science fiction?

In order to answer these deep questions about the cosmos, the LHC will whiz tiny subatomic particles, known as protons, around a giant ring-shaped tunnel, 27km in circumference that runs 100 metres below the Swiss/French countryside. The particles will then be smashed together 600 million times per second, and the results recorded and observed by four huge detectors that sit in cathedral-sized chambers, deep underground. The experiment will generate 40,000 gigabytes of data each day, which will be analysed by a virtual supercomputer made up of 100,000 processors around the world, linked by the Internet.

It's taken 20 years of preparation, 10 billion dollars and has involved more than 10,000 scientists from 70 countries. Scientists have called the LHC the greatest scientific endeavour since the Apollo moon landings, and it heralds a new era in our understanding of the universe we live in.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-09-2008, 04:44 AM

Have you read Angels and Demons?

Matt Dawson

09-09-2008, 05:16 AM

Have you read Angels and Demons?

I was thinking the exact same thing...

great book by the way, i thought it was even better than DaVinci Code

IdrisH.

09-09-2008, 06:04 AM

I remember hearing about this collider several months ago. It will be interesting to learn about what these sciencetists find using it. Thanks for posting this Arnell.

Matthew White

09-09-2008, 07:10 AM

oooooooooooooo TOYS!!!! TOYS TOYS TOYS!!!! I love it! (the more people do crazy stuff with particle accelerators to more my job grows on the civilian side because all that equipment is cooled via nitrogen which is stored in liquid form.......made by yours truly) So this excites me. Aside from that I was alwys a geek at heart.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-09-2008, 07:27 AM

I was thinking the exact same thing...

great book by the way, i thought it was even better than DaVinci Code

I did, too, although he lost me with the ending. It was a little too over-the-top in comparison to the rest of the book.

Todd Malone

09-09-2008, 07:41 AM

I did, too, although he lost me with the ending. It was a little too over-the-top in comparison to the rest of the book.

I'm sorry, I couldn't get past the first page of The Da Vinci Code. Maybe I should have tried a little harder, but I just couldn't handle Dan Brown's writing.

So, for those of us who haven't read Angels and Demons, what's the connection?

James Whisman

09-09-2008, 08:46 AM

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 08:56 AM

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i228/bwonan/divide-by-zero.jpg

Brian_Worden

09-09-2008, 10:25 AM

I drive to work early in the morning and there is a talk show that does alien abduction, science fiction, latest technology ect as its format. Its called Coast to Coast. They had a physist on this morning sueing the project to stop the experiment b/c according to his calculations recreating the big bang could distroy the known universe, or something like that. He said there was never an Environment Protection Agence (EPA) study done on the possible outcomes of the project.

If we are all killed some universal explotion big bang recreation, it has been a pleasure knowing you all...

My theorectical physics knowledge is not that strong to be an authority, but i was a little worried myself... but it seems it's the common consensus among the top physicists that the likelyhood of a black hole being created is <1% and if a black hole was created it would be so small it would "fizzle" out before anyone even knew it existed.

That being said... i could see a physicist getting overly excited, and consciously or subconsciously, overlooking the dangers

Zack C. Nims

09-09-2008, 10:41 AM

Thanks for this thread, seriously. Now this site has my two passions. Strongman and Physics.

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 10:45 AM

I like Strongman and Psychics, personally.

Scott Markowitz

09-09-2008, 10:48 AM

Strongman and psychos go well together.

Arnell Castillo

09-09-2008, 10:59 AM

Here are more links in regards to this story . Very interesting stuff,curious to see what they find out .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24556999
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_re_eu/big_bang_machine

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 11:01 AM

Strongman and psychos go well together.

Ha! Touche.

Brandon Campbell

09-09-2008, 11:03 AM

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 11:05 AM

Like Half-Life!

Ryan Duncan

09-09-2008, 11:19 AM

Like Half-Life!
http://kuvaton.com/bshit/1220360595652.jpg

Ummm....

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-09-2008, 12:17 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419404,00.html

Countdown Nears End for Start-Up of 'Big Bang Machine'

The clock is ticking.

At 12:30 a.m. EDT Wednesday, scientists on the Franco-Swiss border will flip the switch on the Large Hadron Collider, a 17-mile underground ring where subatomic particles will be accelerated to astonishing speeds and then smashed into each other.

It'll be months before any usable data comes out from the experiments, but the so-called "Big Bang machine" already has physicists salivating at the prospect of unlocking the mysteries of the universe — and many other people worried it'll create a black hole or strange self-replicating particle that will gobble up the Earth.

Professor Stephen Hawking, easily the world's most renowned living physicist, came down squarely in the "it's a good thing" camp Tuesday in a interview with BBC Radio: "Whatever the LHC finds, or fails to find, the results will tell us a lot about the structure of the universe."

Brian Cox, a glamorous particle physicist who literally was once a rock star, told London's Daily Telegraph that he and his colleagues had been receiving death threats. He then bluntly characterized anyone who feared the LHC would destroy the world with an unprintable term for a female body part.

A pair of Russian scientists even think the LHC would be the world's first time machine, and that we should expect visitors from the future to arrive soon after it goes into operation.

A columnist on Wired magazine's Web site acknowledged that the LHC would create microscopic black holes that lasted a fraction of a second, but that "the likelihood of these black holes becoming the more well-known kind of black hole is nearly nonexistent."

Large Hadron Collider operator CERN — officially the European Organization for Nuclear Research — has conducted several safety reviews and concluded that there is very little risk of something going horribly wrong.

But that hasn't stopped several people, including a former nuclear engineer from Hawaii and a German biochemist, from speaking out against the project.

"Someone will spot a light ray coming out of the Indian Ocean during the night and no one will be able to explain it, retired Professor Otto Roessler told London's Mail on Sunday. "Very soon the whole planet will be eaten in a magnificent scenario — if you could watch it from the moon. A Biblical Armageddon. Even cloud and fire will form, as it says in the Bible."

"[T]he compression of the two atoms colliding together at nearly light speed will cause an irreversible implosion, forming a miniature version of a giant black hole," reads a lawsuit filed in March in U.S. District Court in Honolulu by Walter L. Wagner and a Spanish colleague, Luis Sancho.

The case, in which Wagner and Sancho demand that the LHC stop operations until an independent safety review is conducted, is still pending.

Wagner first became famous a decade ago when he filed suit against the opening of the smaller Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider on Long Island, claiming it too would destroy the world when it started up in 2000.

Public reaction, true to form, has been mixed.

"This is an abomination and should not be allowed to go ahead," wrote "Proud Teeside Lass" in comments attached to the Mail on Sunday story.

"This reminds me of the Millennium Bug! I love hysteria — it makes me laugh and I need a good laugh," said "Johan of Brisbane" in the comments to an Australian News Corp story.

Best of all was the posting on the same page by "KnowerOfAll": "Chuck Norris doesn't look for God Particles — he creates them."

Jeff Crow

09-09-2008, 12:41 PM

I love the "protective" helmets the scientists are wearing in the photo. If this experiment really does rip a hole in the universe, well I guess their big brains will be safe. :LOL:

Brian_Worden

09-09-2008, 12:50 PM

Ummm....

Sweet... Freeman will know what to do.

Hopefully... Hawkins is correct and nothing but loads of useful data comes of it.

I just hope they don't hire the same engineers who consulted on Chernobyl or New Orleans.

Jay Hagadorn

09-09-2008, 01:51 PM

Uh, huh...

The whole experiment reeks of stupid genuis at work. Yes this is how the universe was made, not:

Long ago a large Hadron Collider (LHC) created a "Big Bang" creating the universe.

By smashing particles together at speeds 99.99% the speed of light, the Hadron Collider (LHC) created; mass, dark matter - the invisible but massive substance that fills the universe, zero anti-matter, extra dimensions and parallel universes.
The Hadron Collider LHC whized tiny subatomic particles, known as protons, around a giant ring-shaped tunnel, 27km in circumference that runs 100 metres below a countryside that already existed. The particles were then smashed together 600 million times per second.

Let's take the 10 billion dollars and feed some people that need help. Then, we can take the 10,000 scientists from 70 countries and put them to work doing something productive for once...

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 02:14 PM

Recreating the creation of matter is huge, this kind of thing is how science builds on itself.

We live in a world where basketball players make billions of dollars a year, and they are under no obligation to help the poor -neither are scientists.

and put them to work doing something productive for once...

You're not interested in how "this" got here (this being everything)?

Jay Hagadorn

09-09-2008, 02:19 PM

Recreating the creation of matter is huge, this kind of thing is how science builds on itself.

We live in a world where basketball players make billions of dollars a year, and they are under no obligation to help the poor -neither are scientists.

You're not interested in how "this" got here (this being everything)?

Ya Dan, but basketball players are not funded by taxes or by our government in general, capiche?

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 02:20 PM

Oh, totally, I just find it odd that you seem to be against this as much as you are.

Was the entire project funded with tax revenues?

Jay Hagadorn

09-09-2008, 02:25 PM

Oh, totally, I just find it odd that you seem to be against this as much as you are.

Was the entire project funded with tax revenues?

Taxes and grants from our government. Very, very few scientific ventures are paid by private donors.

As far as this "very expensive experiment" goes, yes. Also the collaboration of other countries with investment.

Oh wait, let's spend the $10 billion on cleaning up the environment or on renewable energy sources. That's a little more politically correct than feeding the hungry LOL...

Dan Montague

09-09-2008, 02:29 PM

Environment Schenvironment, I'd rather they spend 10 billion tax dollars on a new McMansion for me, with a pool and dance club in the back.

Plus, we all know what's going to happen with this LHC anyway.

They'll fire it up, things will start zooming around and 15 times the speed of light, and then BOOM -the Vulcans are scanning our universe and hear the noise, come to investigate, and we get first contact.

There. Where's my 10 billion?

Ryan Duncan

09-09-2008, 02:43 PM

The discovery of the electron lead to electricity, which I think has probably made most people's lives a lot better. They are looking for the Higgs-Boson, an even more fundamental particle, which could have just as much, if not more of an impact. I think these experiments are pretty cool, and valuable enough to justify the costs.

AndrewPalmer

09-09-2008, 02:48 PM

don't underestimate the long term value that comes from a short term increase in understanding the nature of the universe.

Also, the "Big Bang in a box" stuff is mostly media hype. The LHC is meant to simulate certain conditions at the big bang, not replicate the big bang exactly. High energy particle collisions like this happen relatively often in nature, its just a matter of being able to observe them. The goal of course is a greater understanding of how everything works, I'd say that's worth quite the large sum of money. There are certainly less noble places for the world's governments to spend their money.

Arnell Castillo

09-09-2008, 03:00 PM

Oh, totally, I just find it odd that you seem to be against this as much as you are.

Was the entire project funded with tax revenues?
No ,it was funded through bank loans and has little to do with the u.s. goverment from what I understand . it is largly a european venture .

Science is so awesome !!!!

Matt Lebo

09-09-2008, 03:30 PM

I think it's a great idea and can't wait to hear how it turns out! BTW...Da Vinci Code was WAY better than Angels and Demons...more mysteries, better characters, and a much better ending... :IMHO:

Brandon R.

09-09-2008, 04:14 PM

No ,it was funded through bank loans and has little to do with the u.s. goverment from what I understand . it is largly a european venture .

Science is so awesome !!!!

Its true, the US had little to do with this. We were building one here in Texas that was somewhere around 3x as powerful as the LHC back in '93. It was called the Superconducting Super Collider. We abandoned that project after it got past $12 billion. Since then we've haven't been as excited about spending a ton of money on something like this.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-09-2008, 04:30 PM

Brandon R.

09-09-2008, 04:41 PM

"Little" is a relative term. If I remember correctly, the U.S. contributed 531 million towards the LHC. I still support it... I'm just sayin'.

*edit: Found it... http://uscms.fnal.gov/uscms/announce/us_cern/US_LHC_Participation.pdf

I didn't know that. Thats still a ton of money, but at least its not as much as I thought they would.

Dan Eberhardt

09-09-2008, 07:50 PM

bahahahaha, the first thing I thought was: Thousands of years of evolution and the BEST we can do is smash stuff with a giant hammer (well super collider but the principle is largely the same). Kinda reminds me of the opening scenes from space odyssey 2001 where the ape starts hitting stuff with the bone club.

Although I do look forward to seeing what this will accomplish and what can be learned from it.

Victor Cleere

09-09-2008, 08:07 PM

Oh wait, let's spend the $10 billion on cleaning up the environment or on renewable energy sources. That's a little more politically correct than feeding the hungry LOL...

Yeah, I mean $10 billion to feed the billions of hungry people. They would just be hungry again tomorrow.

Now renewable energy sources....Hmmmmm....where would we get new scientific information about that.....possibly from CERN's LHC experiment? Maybe. And if it does blow up, then we could make everyone happy by spending $10 billion to clean up the local environment on the French/Swiss border region where the hungry black hole ate everybody!

Scott Markowitz

09-09-2008, 08:21 PM

Black hole? Sounds like the perfect place for a trash dump.

Zach Snyder

09-09-2008, 08:54 PM

"Little" is a relative term. If I remember correctly, the U.S. contributed 531 million towards the LHC. I still support it... I'm just sayin'.

*edit: Found it... http://uscms.fnal.gov/uscms/announce/us_cern/US_LHC_Participation.pdf

531 is a lot of money, but not in the grand scheme of things.

it's funny that 531 million is less than the Iraq war has cost us (currently), and we will most likely, see better long term benefits from this experiment. But, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

It's also less than what "The Dark Knight" has grossed so far.

So, in the grand scheme of things, it's really not that much money.

This thing sounds pretty scary, but it's pretty cool and exciting. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

AndrewPalmer

09-09-2008, 09:08 PM

531 is a lot of money, but not in the grand scheme of things.

it's funny that 531 million is less than the Iraq war has cost us (currently), and we will most likely, see better long term benefits from this experiment. But, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

It's also less than what "The Dark Knight" has grossed so far.

So, in the grand scheme of things, it's really not that much money.

This thing sounds pretty scary, but it's pretty cool and exciting. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

Its interesting that you say that. 531 million is almost exactly 1/1000th of what we have spent on the iraq war as of this past spring. Yes, you read that right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/washington/19cost.html

Zach Snyder

09-09-2008, 09:54 PM

I just found this site. Check it out for minute to minute updates...

http://www.hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet. com/

hahahahahaha!!!

Zack C. Nims

09-09-2008, 09:56 PM

just so everyone knows this "experiment" has began. as of 10am PST this morning the CERN collinder is operational. so no rip in space or monsters angels or demons... yet :M:

Patrick McGuffin

09-09-2008, 10:07 PM

just so everyone knows this "experiment" has began. as of 10am PST this morning the CERN collinder is operational. so no rip in space or monsters angels or demons... yet :M:

Well when undead start coming out of the inter dimensional hole I will be ready ( grabbs shotgun)..... seriously though I think at the moment our governments have better things to spend the money on... like healthcare or fixing that pothole on main street ( that takes about $531 million when the government does it, right?)

Matthew White

09-10-2008, 07:14 AM

i hope they rip open a hole in universe and out comes monsters and demons and other strange creatures that try to take over the world!!!!

Naturally I will be one of the few left to fight for the freedom of our planet!!! :M:

Man that sounds like fun, way more fun then a zombie invasion!!! :LOL:

Are you kidding me! NOTHING beats a zombie invasion, unless the hole ripped open pours out alien zombies, then we have a comprimise, and therefore, much badassery will be going on! May I recommend a M246-SAW to you sir. ;p

Ian Duggan

09-10-2008, 08:18 AM

Dr Brain Cox - “Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a twat.”

Classic.

Also, a lot of the scientist working on this started getting death threats from people who thought they were going to cause the universe to explode. Like actual death threats.

Me thinks somebody's been watchin' too many of they purdy movies....

ADAMBAUER

09-10-2008, 08:26 AM

Well when undead start coming out of the inter dimensional hole I will be ready ( grabbs shotgun)..... seriously though I think at the moment our governments have better things to spend the money on... like healthcare or fixing that pothole on main street ( that takes about $531 million when the government does it, right?)
Agreed! Whats the point of this experiment? Just another way for the gov. to waste money. Altogether now kids PORK BARREL SPENDING!!

Matt Dawson

09-10-2008, 08:33 AM

just so everyone knows this "experiment" has began. as of 10am PST this morning the CERN collinder is operational. so no rip in space or monsters angels or demons... yet :M:

Correction. Testing of the machine began today....They dont actually smash particles together till November...thats when we'll have to worry.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-10-2008, 09:03 AM

Agreed! Whats the point of this experiment?

To learn and advance. It’s the same point as pretty much any other scientific endeavor that took place in the past and led to many of the things we enjoy today and take for granted. The specific potential benefits of LHC program are widely unknown at this point, but I don’t think that’s cause to say that the possible destination is not worth the trip.

Todd Malone

09-10-2008, 09:54 AM

To learn and advance. It’s the same point as pretty much any other scientific endeavor that took place in the past and led to many of the things we enjoy today and take for granted. The specific potential benefits of LHC program are widely unknown at this point, but I don’t think that’s cause to say that the possible destination is not worth the trip.

Agreed.
+rep pts

Brian_Worden

09-10-2008, 10:42 AM

I whole heartedly disagree that it is a complete waste of money...

Webster's defines complete waste of money as...
...rebuilding a city that was destroyed once already because it was built below sea level, surrounded by lakes and an ocean, and in a very hurricane prone zone...

Corey DuCharme

09-10-2008, 11:00 AM

I have absolutely no comprehension as to what they are doing???????

Ian Duggan

09-10-2008, 11:05 AM

Corey, I imagine that if guys like me and you understood what they were doing... they might be aiming a little low huh?

:D

Corey DuCharme

09-10-2008, 11:53 AM

Corey, I imagine that if guys like me and you understood what they were doing... they might be aiming a little low huh?

:D

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. :BB:

AndrewPalmer

09-10-2008, 12:11 PM

An up to the date report of whether the LHC has destryoed the world :LOL:
http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

Also, just an observation to the people saying it is a waste of money. The project is attempting to determine if a particle (the Higgs boson) causes mass/gravity instead of an overarching force. Can you not see the longterm potential value in understanding how gravity really works?

the 10 billion dollars spent on this may be nothing compared to the advancements that could come from this knowledge. Yes, it is only potential. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

Matthew White

09-10-2008, 12:28 PM

And after that I want to see that money go to cold fusion, and pure O2 combustion engines that get 100 miles to the gallon! Git r dun!

ADAMBAUER

09-10-2008, 12:43 PM

Jim Wood

09-10-2008, 12:48 PM

yeah i agree, The world is in a real state and they are wasting money in my opinion.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-10-2008, 01:02 PM

If the money was spent on more productive things like cancer research, alternative fuels, education, etc. I would understand the expense

2007 U.S. Government Spending on Cancer Research

Brain: $148.2 million
Breast: $572.4 million
Cervical: $82.4 million
Colorectal: $258.4 million
Head and Neck: $66.2 million
Hodgkins: $16.5 million
Leukemia: $205.5 million
Liver: $67.7 million
Lung: $226.9 million
Melanoma: $97.7 million
Multiple Myeloma: $32.3 million
Non Hodgkins Lymphoma: $113.0 million
Ovarian: $96.9 million
Pancreatic: $73.3 million
Prostate: $296.1 million
Stomach: $12.0 million
Uterine: $16.6 million
Clinical Trials: $843.7 million

Total = $3,225,800,000

dave barron

09-10-2008, 01:10 PM

Corey, I imagine that if guys like me and you understood what they were doing... they might be aiming a little low huh?

What don't you understand? They're smashing stuff real fast looking for Higgin's bossom. Duh...

AndrewPalmer

09-10-2008, 01:11 PM

If the money was spent on more productive things like cancer research, alternative fuels, education, etc. I would understand the expense

Of course having a greater understanding of the universe, gravity in specific, can have no positive impact on any of these things :BB: </sarcasm>

Sometimes you don't attack a problem directly. You get smarter and everything becomes easier to fix.

Ryan Duncan

09-10-2008, 02:28 PM

If you guys really think the 500 or so million the US put into LHC is a waste of money, how about the almost 600 billion we have spent in Iraq so far?

Corey DuCharme

09-10-2008, 03:12 PM

Can you not see the longterm potential value in understanding how gravity really works?

...........ummmmmm, maybe I could dunk???

Dan Montague

09-10-2008, 03:16 PM

Science builds on itself, it's a stepping stone, and each part is important.

Frankly, the government and the people overspend on a bunch of useless things. I'm glad to see some money go towards a cool science project.

I'd rather have protons slamming into each other than:

War
Weapons or training for other countries
Welfare
Congress' paychecks
Mortgage bailouts

steven webster

09-10-2008, 03:49 PM

Just because the world is unfair doesn't mean everyone should lower their standards and live like hobos.

All this science stuff is just a distraction from the natural order which is a giant ballache what with the food chain.

Also, on a more serious note I'm rooting for a hooter storm, not a zombie apocalypse. c'mon people get your priorities right.

Alex Klotz

09-10-2008, 04:01 PM

I have a degree in physics (not sure if I'm the only one here), so if anyone has any questions about the science aspect, let me know and I'll see if I can answer them.

Brandon R.

09-10-2008, 04:07 PM

I have a degree in physics (not sure if I'm the only one here), so if anyone has any questions about the science aspect, let me know and I'll see if I can answer them.

How close to the speed of light are the particles supposed to get to?

Alex Klotz

09-10-2008, 04:10 PM

Something like 99.9998 percent the speed of light. Pretty fast.

Kurt Hessenbruch

09-10-2008, 04:42 PM

Something like 99.9998 percent the speed of light. Pretty fast.

How does that relate to the airspeed velocity of a swallow?

Dan Montague

09-10-2008, 04:44 PM

How does that relate to the airspeed velocity of a swallow?

It could eat an entire line of cakes before the average man could swallow.

/wait, what?

Alex Klotz

09-10-2008, 05:05 PM

How does that relate to the airspeed velocity of a swallow?

African or European?

Patrick McGuffin

09-10-2008, 05:14 PM

where did you get that cocanut?

Jonathan Macfarlane

09-10-2008, 05:17 PM

African or European?

I wrote that, was about to hit reply and then got a blue screen kernel warning and my laptop shut down... woops.

I'd just like to say, as an evangelical Christian who believes God created the world in 6 literal days, the earth is around 6000yrs old and that God didn't use a big bang or macro-evolution in creation; I think this project is a good thing. Science has given alot to this world and a scientific research done with integrity has the potential to offer us much more. For all the extravagance of a 10B $ project, I'm keen to see what the scientists find out.

Alex Klotz

09-10-2008, 05:28 PM

There's really nothing in quantum physics or biology that goes against any religious teachings. If God did create the world 6000 years ago, he was just very careful to make it appear older. But it's probably best if we leave that out of this thread.

Jonathan Macfarlane

09-10-2008, 05:32 PM

If God did create the world 6000 years ago, he was just very careful to make it appear older. But it's probably best if we leave that out of this thread.

Agreed.

....

Chris Grantano

09-10-2008, 07:35 PM

Many people don't see the big picture when it comes to scientific advance.

Due to the often "hated on" space program, we have had breakthroughs in baby food, water purification, scratch resistant lenses, portable coolers/warmers, athletic shoes, solar energy, weather forecasting, sensors for environmental control, telemetry systems, plant research, fire resistant material, radiation insulation, food preservation, art preservation, smoke detectors, flat panel tv's, digital imaging breast biopsy system (there's your cancer research), ocular screening, MRI, engine lubricant, gasoline vapor recovery, emergency rescue cutters, firemen's breathing apparatus, better braking systems, etc, etc, etc..

Instead of recognizing the ingenuity required to send a manned vessel into the aether, many would rather say, "We don't need to go there. There's nothing up there for us."

I agree with Mr. Palmer. We get smarter by achieving.

Scott Markowitz

09-10-2008, 07:44 PM

Yeah, but according to my mother in law, the space program is why we have holes in the ozone. So there - the space program causes global warming.

Dan Montague

09-10-2008, 07:57 PM

Yeah, but according to my mother in law, the space program is why we have holes in the ozone. So there - the space program causes global warming.

Next thing you know your mother-in-law is going to start saying we actually went to the moon.

Chris Grantano

09-10-2008, 07:59 PM

If your mother-in-law is anything like mine, you wouldn't be at all concerned with zombie attacks.

Jonathan Macfarlane

09-10-2008, 08:02 PM

Yeah, but according to my mother in law, the space program is why we have holes in the ozone. So there - the space program causes global warming.

I heard this song last week that had the line:

"We've done lots of bad things, we've made the world an oven."

Made the world an oven? Naughty NASA.

Ryan Duncan

09-10-2008, 09:14 PM

Yeah, but according to my mother in law, the space program is why we have holes in the ozone. So there - the space program causes global warming.

Is this the same person that loves working at WAL*MART?

Scott Markowitz

09-10-2008, 09:27 PM

Yep. Same one. What, do you think I'm Mormon?

Victor Cleere

09-10-2008, 10:23 PM

I agree with Chris and Andrew. I read an article that claimed we have reaped at least 100 times what we invested in the space program, which was almost universally hated on when it was starting. There are many other things that come directly or indrectly from the space program: portable/cordless/rechargable power tools, visco-elastic foam/super comfy beds that swallow you, velcro (imagine the modern world without that), Kidney dialysis machines, CAT scans, methods now commonly used to produce metals/fabric/plastic/polymers/etc unthinkable before experiments done in space, plus pretty much everything involved in satellite technology as well as computers, miniaturization, etc.

In fact I will stop there. The benefits that came directly from NASA is tremendous, I would posit that MRI/CAT scan technology alone was probably worth 1,000 times the money that was spent. If we get something even a fraction of that from the CERN project, everyone on earth will benefit.

Many people don't see the big picture when it comes to scientific advance.

Due to the often "hated on" space program, we have had breakthroughs in baby food, water purification, scratch resistant lenses, portable coolers/warmers, athletic shoes, solar energy, weather forecasting, sensors for environmental control, telemetry systems, plant research, fire resistant material, radiation insulation, food preservation, art preservation, smoke detectors, flat panel tv's, digital imaging breast biopsy system (there's your cancer research), ocular screening, MRI, engine lubricant, gasoline vapor recovery, emergency rescue cutters, firemen's breathing apparatus, better braking systems, etc, etc, etc..

Instead of recognizing the ingenuity required to send a manned vessel into the aether, many would rather say, "We don't need to go there. There's nothing up there for us."

I agree with Mr. Palmer. We get smarter by achieving.

brian kling

09-11-2008, 10:00 AM

This could potentially prove or disprove evolution and life as we know it. A good 10b spent IMO.

Dan Montague

09-11-2008, 10:06 AM

This could potentially prove or disprove evolution and life as we know it. A good 10b spent IMO.

I don't know about that, at all.

This would be a glimpse at properties <1 second after a Big Bang took place, a snapshot taken after the fact.

More over, the majority of evidence supporting evolution as we know it doesn't stem from the milliseconds after a Big Bang, but through natural science studies of our Earth.

It would take a lot to prove (scientifically) evolution, and much, much more to disprove it.

Alex Klotz

09-11-2008, 10:53 AM

This could potentially prove or disprove evolution and life as we know it. A good 10b spent IMO.

This experiment has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution.

This is a step towards it though: http://www.pnas.org/content/105/23/7899.abstract

Patrick McGuffin

09-11-2008, 12:10 PM

It is a big leap to compare a physics expiriment with the space progam though.... just because they both have large ammounts of criticism does not mean they are the same thing. NASA's approach was "we want to go into space but we have this problem, what do we do get around that?" and so on and so forth... while the particle smasher is more like " how were we created?" or "dude, wait, like.... uh, what if there were like... I dont know like 12 dimensions and not just a few... woah".

The only thing I can see coming out of this other than finding other dimensions (could be good, bad or indifferent) ... or a black hole or very large explosion is finding out how gravity actually works, which would be cool because I would like someone figure out how to make anti gravity devices..... and then make a flying city (maybe over new orleans... they could call it New Orleans Squared (sorry I dont know how to put the 2 whwere it needs to be on a computer)) or cheap airfare or something. That would be worth 10B