misconception that strength determines does or doesn't fighting ability

[Devin Marshall]

where do people get the misconcoeption from that strength determines fighting ability not as a boxer but as a regular person? i can't stand it when people say "You might be stronger than me but I can still beat you up." or when people say "He's strong, he will beat you up."

[Matthew White]

Devin, I'm going to assume (and I know what happens when you assume) that you are a young man. And probably a little heated over something that happened recently. (I get that way myself from time to time, the nice people here on MM can tell you that) but if I were you, I'd edit that post before you get tagged by one of the mods. Even bleeping it out like you did, its still obvious what it says.

AS TO THE QUESTION. They do it for many reasons, first and foremost to get under your skin. To test the waters. To me it shows a lack of confidence in oneself to be upset by these comments. People say similar things to me all the time not based on my strength but based on my size. I just smile at them. If I was to get upset, they would keep chipping away at it because they would know it gets to you. (this is what alot of people do when they are bored, they chip away at the nearest guy to see if they can break him, its human nature, you'll either break, or you'll harden up) Another reason these people may say this, is because frankly, they've never played a real sport, or done real training in their lives, and they honestly have NO CLUE as to what they are talking about. Then the smile and ignore reaction continues to work for this as well. There are so many factors in a fight that it would be stupid to assume anything straight up. Having strength is an attribute that will increase your odds at winning a fight, and you should never let anyone get to you for being strong. With being strong of body, comes being strong of heart, and being strong of mind.

[Scott Porter]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you are either...

under 200 lbs. or
small man's complex or
young or
all the above.

[Devin Marshall]

lol. 202, 5'10", 18. its not so much that i get angry about them saying what they say but its more about the fact that they are so wrong.

[Scott Porter]

lol. 202, 5'10", 18. its not so much that i get angry about them saying what they say but its more about the fact that they are so wrong.

To an extent, they aren't wrong.

When you take two people who aren't trained how to fight, the bigger/stronger guy should win. If you are comparing 210 lbs. to 180 lbs. then maybe not. But if you take a 275 lb. much stronger/bigger man vs. an under 200 lb. man, it's no contest.

[Scott Porter]

A better thread would be...

"Misconception that your typical Affliction or Tapout T-shirt guy is tough and knows how to fight because he's taken X amount of MMA, grappling, etc."

On the street, your rear naked chokes won't work and most other grappling things. And being a good wrestler would be nice, but how do you stop me from biting your nose off and gouging your eyes out when you shoot and take me down?

Throw out "fighting ability" and size is going to matter. And people equate size w/ strength.

[Dan Eberhardt]

Wait, this is like the age old internet debate of who would win, karate or kung-fu. But strongman style?

Without trying to get sucked into the debate too much, strength and size plays a part in "regular" life. But it also comes down to confidence and lack thereof. In a boxing match you know who you're up against. In 'regular' life you don't, so you look at their size and bet on the bigger guy.

He who talks does not know, he who knows does not talk! ahah, the point of that quote is those who truly know how to fight tend to avoid confrontational situations or talking about 'who would win'.

[davebeers]

the guy with a knife/gun/ or more friends than you usually wins

[Jason Nunn]

Funny, I'm sure that I would lose to most (all) of the guys in the UFC and WEC even though I am much stronger and bigger than most of them. There's alot to be said about knowing how to fight.

[Scott Markowitz]

It's generally who's willing to go farther - throw the first solid shot, gouge eyes, go ape poop, etc. etc.

[Jason Nunn]

go ape poop, etc. etc.

Agreed, totally.

[Justin Ely]

"Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin" - Bas Rutten

That is of course until you get kicked there. Essentially, the little man's answer to the big man's strength.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y&feature=player_embedded

[Gabriel Wells]

I'm gonna either say Chuck Norris or the boys in blue (Po-Po, the fuzz, Johnny Law, Derek Poundstone, any other Police officer that does strongman...lol)

[Cody Brant]

"Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin" - Bas Rutten

That is of course until you get kicked there. Essentially, the little man's answer to the big man's strength.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwPm-BgkvE

hahahah

[Brandon Campbell]

some one trained in fighting may get alot of good shots in, but while he is being all technical trying arm bar me, I will be grabbing the man hood and twisting till i hear things pop and tear.

Life or death fight i aint going play fair:LOL: Eyes will pop out, nuts will be ripped off, ears bitten off, i might go king kong on him and rip his jaw apart.

IN the real world

Strength and smarts always win, along with guns, guns win alot!

And really strong bones from drinking MILK!! to resist fracture after being hit with chairs, bats, crowbars, cement ashtrays

[Mathieu Bruneaux]

where do people get the misconcoeption from that strength determines fighting ability not as a boxer but as a regular person? i can't stand it when people say "You might be stronger than me but I can still beat you up." or when people say "He's strong, he will beat you up."

Many people don't understand physics.....

[Matthew White]

I know who would win. Scott Porter. ;) Just cause I say he would! (no tapout shirts required) Unless he was in a fight with a physicist, then it would be a one way conversation.

[Brian_Beaupain]

Scott Porter is so strong that he is the best fighter ever.

[Darin Heltemes]

Who cares what people say? Average Joe fighting is in large part nothing more than a pansy mind game. Stand your ground and most of the time you're going to find out that most people are all talk and no walk. Then most of the people that do walk get so scared that they give up after a couple light taps to the chin or simply don't put up a fight at all. There's only a small percentage of people that mean business. Then you either prove them wrong or you prove them right. But I guarantee if it's some d-bag that you out weigh by 50 plus pounds, he's either incredibly stupid, incredibly drunk, has something up his sleeve, or any combination of the above.

[JustinLallemand]

It's generally who's willing to go farther - throw the first solid shot, gouge eyes, go ape poop, etc. etc.

Yep. We all have a few friends that make a hobby of it - one of mine would use whatever was around. Or fish hooks, eye gouges. He did an eye gouge to a guy that he was fighting and the guy screamed then he yelled real loud that it wasn't fair, LOL.

And if you're sticking with a "fair" bar fight, it is, in fact, going to be the guy that pulls the trigger first 90% of the time (after all of the posturing) and lands a hook (drunk guys don't protect themselves well).

[JustinLallemand]

Many people don't understand physics.....

Bob Sapp vs. Fedor

Wild guess, but I'd say Sapp has a better bench than Fedor. I love how all of this tough guy stuff plays out over and over for every group of guys. And since I teach at college, I still get to hear some pretty nice quotes on Mondays.

#1) "Dude, I 'bout got in a fight this weekend! You should've seen it."

[Dave Bernreuther]

In the street, speed and decisiveness trumps all else. Big and strong helps if you're a bouncer and have to restrain people, but if you're big and slow against small and quick, it doesn't matter. One quick shot can end everything.

Among my friends, the person I fear the most weighs 155 pounds. Why? Fast hands. I could be a pro strongman with ten years of BJJ experience and would still get KTFO by him in ten seconds.

But looking at us, most people would never guess that. The majority of people assume big guys can fight because they're big and strong. They don't realize that there can be a pretty wide gap between big/strong and quick/athletic. The latter is much more important to fighting than the former.

But since I've gotten older and less athletic (sadly), I find that it's helpful that people think that. It has probably saved my ass a few times.

[Patrick McGuffin]

Being bigger and stronger just keeps us out of fights, whoever has the drop usually wins, and many times the big guys are faster to the punch. I haven't gotten in a real fight in forever but when I was just screwing around with someone (sparring etc, letting them think I was fighting... because I am sick and it amused me to see them try.) or breaking up fights I will say though that I have been hit by smaller guys before and just about laughed in their faces though, maybe I have a hard head, I don't know. That and having an arm span of 6'2" when you are only 5'10 also helps deceive people who think they can dance around you too, so can being a dirty bastard and going for the nut shot first etc... In the end I think it really depends on the person and how many friends they have, or weapons, or both.

One misconception I always hear is little guys saying that would win because they fight dirty... news flash, so do big guys!

[Matthew White]

In the street, speed and decisiveness trumps all else. Big and strong helps if you're a bouncer and have to restrain people, but if you're big and slow against small and quick, it doesn't matter. One quick shot can end everything.

Among my friends, the person I fear the most weighs 155 pounds. Why? Fast hands. I could be a pro strongman with ten years of BJJ experience and would still get KTFO by him in ten seconds.

But looking at us, most people would never guess that. The majority of people assume big guys can fight because they're big and strong. They don't realize that there can be a pretty wide gap between big/strong and quick/athletic. The latter is much more important to fighting than the former.

But since I've gotten older and less athletic (sadly), I find that it's helpful that people think that. It has probably saved my ass a few times.

Dave, not sure how big you are, but I'm about 320, and can't say that I've EVER feared any man. I did BJJ when I was a kid growing up, and have attempted to roll a few times in the navy as a hobby. I've taken 160 lb brown belts, and 200 lb black belts, and I've left them decimated on the ground because honestly, a 300 lb athletic guy, while rolling on the ground, can half stand up and repeatedly slam you until you go loopy and dazed. Nothing in the rules states that you can't slam someone. ;) Now that's not a real fight by any means, that's on a wrestling mat rolling around. I've also had a 200 lb black belt instructor that we'd go toe to toe and he'd win about 75% of the time, and that was just pure skill, not speed, not strength, just drilling drilling drilling. (needless to say I sparred with him most to make myself better) But on the average, I've never had to worry about smaller men. I don't think everyone worries about stuff like that, if your guy is in your group of friends, why would you fear him at all? I'd hope none of my friends fear me.

As for those fair barfights, heck, if someone jams their hand up in the pressure point between your upper lip and nose, and gets me on that, I don't care if I'm blacked out drunk, I'll give up on the spot. Seems to be the only major pressure point that I've found that works on me, and it works like a charm. (everything else has a nice layer of fat over it, except the good ol kick to the man spot) I can't say I'd ever really pull my firearm on someone unless they showed good intent to end my life. In that aspect, having a gun is to protect your life and the lives of those around you, not to prevent getting whooped.

While alot of the time I'm an instigator myself, I'm not exactly trying to get people to throw up hands and fight. If someone wants to fight me I'll normally crack a joke at them to get them to lose concentration and end the fight before it starts. Such as, "why you wanna fight, I just wanted to cuddle, geeze we're not even married yet". Something stupid, and semi silly usually changes their mind. I also agree with Pat, being big and strong keeps us out of fights more often than not. I also agree with Pat that big guys also fight dirty, cause I know I sure as heck do!

[Vincent.Dametta]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Someone says something, laugh it off. You know how truly strong you are or aren't. You know the extent of your fighting background, nobody else. You know how well you reacted in those situations, nobody else. Let people make assumptions, you know what that leads to.

I just don't care what people think anymore in regards to whether or not "they can take me". Living in NY your whole life, you develop this facial expression that, to most people, would look like you're angry. And it's not even the case, it's merely a defense mechanism so that people don't mess with you and you can AVOID fights.

I haven't had a physical confrontation since being an adult (other than sparring boxing in the ring). I feel I'm too old for that nonsense. I know how much experience I have and I'd rather not be taken back to a time in my childhood where I loved to throw down. Plus add the fact there's always the possibility you can get locked up, yeah, I'll pass. When I was a kid I used to think the true measure of one's self was "how much do you really know about yourself unless you've been in a few fights?", but nowadays I feel like the struggle of becoming as strong as possible is way more a euphoric experience and helpful in finding out more about yourself.

[rogersmith]

As an older guy, I can say, let your ego go and walk away. It's not worth it. The guy could have a dozen friends around, playing dumb, but waiting to pounce. He could have a gun or knife. The cops could be around the corner. There could be a camera recording for a future personal liability suit.

The worse people to go out with are people with big egos and something to prove. Who give a shit what some idiot in a bar says to you. Just walk away.

Most importantly, NEVER, NEVER, get in a fight over a woman. They are a dime a dozen and none are worth fighting for.

As for size, sure it matters, if it didn't they wouldn't have weight divisions in MMA. If you saw the frustration in De La Hoyas eyes when he boxed Shaq... Hell, he could hardly reach his head...

[Matthew White]

As for size, sure it matters, if it didn't they wouldn't have weight divisions in MMA. If you saw the frustration in De La Hoyas eyes when he boxed Shaq... Hell, he could hardly reach his head...

LOL!!! ;p

[AaRoNSnider]

One of the first things that anyone my age said to me after my first strongman contest at age 19 was "just because you can lift a weight doesnt mean you can fight".I didnt know him,and I didnt even say anything about wanting to fight.I laughed it off because this guy was the smallest person there.His high school mentality,and little man syndrome came out,so he had to make a stupid comment.Like the others said..laugh it off,and get used to gusy sizing you up.It gets old,but you have to learn to deal with it or youll end up in alot of trouble.

"Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin" - Bas Rutten

Being bigger and stronger just keeps us out of fights

Its helps sometimes,but I think it has actually gotten me into more trouble because of all of the idiots who feel that they have something to prove.Just like Bas says in the above quote,I will not hesitate to kick a guy in the nuts if he attacks me.In a fight outside of competition,I assume that the guy is trying to kill me.You dont know what his intentions are other than he is trying to hurt you.I am not a guy who starts fights,and I try to talk people out of fighting.If someone wont listen I dont mind ending it with a nice shot to the nuts!

[Pat Wilson]

Size doesn't mean a damn thing! I am 250lbs and I know some of my training partners I train with at bjj class could take me out. Anything could happen yes, but size does not mean anything but as scott said a 300lber compared to 180-200lb man is a big difference especially someone who doesnt train even a little whether its anytype of fighting. I boxed for 2yrs 15-16 and continue to still train for boxing cause I love the sport! I also train bjj at a prestigious school every now and then on the weekends if im not too beat up from training with elliot at strength camp lol. I will tell you this I have been in so many fights growing up, and letting it go is the best thing to do unless you feel like fighting hahahaha but then you have consequences. It is better to do it in the ring where fighting matters!

[Matthew White]

letting it go is the best thing to do unless you feel like fighting hahahaha but then you have consequences. It is better to do it in the ring where fighting matters!

I feel you Pat, about the "unless you feel like fighting". Don't get me wrong, the only man to ever break my nose was one of my closest friends. I am a guy that likes a good scrappin among buddies. I am close enough with some guys that we can just go and beat the heck out of each other, usually even full force in the backyard without ever a second thought. That's just how we are. The thing about it is, when someone taps, or someone gets all tuckered out, you have to stop. HOWEVER, whenever there is a personal reason involved I will NEVER fight unless it is to protect someone. I can't tell you enough, when I was a junior E-4 and a guy who outranked me from another shop came in my shop and attacked (personal attack, not friendly) my supervisor. I tore that guy up one side and down the other, it was a complete and utter protection of my supervisor, who was a much smaller, and non physical person, he tried to get away and the other guy cornered him and I just went ballistic. (over protective of my guys, to a fault, some would consider a golden attribute in a leader, some would not) To this day I don't see many fights anymore among sailors, but I will take the bullet in a chewing out without fail, no matter what they've done. But yeah, will never fight someone else for personal reasons, it becomes dangerous, because when it happens the purpose is usually to injure or "end" that other person. I condone two people with issues getting boxing gloves and with supervision allowing them to beat the snot out of each other, bumps, bruises, and blood will happen, but no actual injuries or trauma.

As has been said many times, laugh off the comments about size. 99.9999% of the time they are just trying to break you down because they are jealous of you. Those people seldom will ever amount to anything in life because they don't have the personal motivation to do anything with themselves, let alone compete in a sport like this. I know it takes time, age, and experience to be able to do that, but if you start practicing gritting your teeth and smiling now, you will get used to it. If all else fails, send me a huge PM about how peeved you are at such and such a d-bag and vent off all you need to. Makes me feel better to rant and rave sometimes.

[Adrian Kimmett]

some one trained in fighting may get alot of good shots in, but while he is being all technical trying arm bar me, I will be grabbing the man hood and twisting till i hear things pop and tear.

Life or death fight i aint going play fair:LOL: Eyes will pop out, nuts will be ripped off, ears bitten off, i might go king kong on him and rip his jaw apart.

IN the real world

Strength and smarts always win, along with guns, guns win alot!

And really strong bones from drinking MILK!! to resist fracture after being hit with chairs, bats, crowbars, cement ashtrays

What makes you think that a trained technical "sport" fighter isn't going to use all those same kind of dirty tricks your going to use when he is in the street?

Just cause you don't see them use it on tv or in sporting tournaments doesn't mean they won't when you end up in a street fight with one of them.

Why the assumption that you can beat them without rules when you can't beat them with rules?

A trained grappler knows how to control someone elses body in a very efficient manner and trains to always be in the dominant position. In sport they use these skills where there are rules to protect both people in the fight, you take those rules away and whats stopping him from using his skills AND all those dirty tricks and weapons that you describe to maim you for life?

Also why do you assume that they will take you to the ground and go for an armbar? If someone is involved enough in martial arts then the chances are pretty good that they have been exposed to quite a bit of "street" self defence and weapons training as well which means that they probably are better at using dirty tricks and weapons than you are.

In my opinion the trained fighter, the Strongman, and other athletes in aggressive sports have a pretty big advantage over the average person in a fight. What kind of guy usually does well in sports? Competitive, highly motivated, focused, pain tolerant, highly conditioned, strong and has way too much testosterone.

Now take that guy, and tell him he can bite, eye gouge, pick something up and hit his opponent with it, and you have an animal that most people can not handle.

Who do you think will have a better handle on using the bottles, chairs and tables that are in the vicinity? I would imagine that an athlete that can Power Clean 375 could probably swing a mean table.

[Chris Mathison]

I would imagine that an athlete that can Power Clean 375 could probably swing a mean table.

depends, how much whip does the table have?

[Matthew White]

Hahaha in that case, forget the table, I'm gonna find the nearest midget and swing that!