Gun Owners Take a look at This!!!

[Anson Castelvecchi]

The problem I've always had with trigger locks and conventional safes is that if you need your gun quickly you're out of luck. A year ago I bought a Gunvault http://www.gunvault.com/ It only takes seconds to open, and you can even open it with your eyes closed- dark bedroom in the middle of the night.

You'll pay more if you buy direct from the company website, so I would not order from them, just do a search. Best deal I could find when I got mine was www.mydiscountstation.com

And for securing your sidearm in the car check this out http://www.center-of-mass.com/
Just got two of these a few weeks ago and have been happy with them, can't beat the price. Also you can get multiple safes keyed the same.

[Jesse Marunde]

how do you open it so fast?

[Rus Mandery]

If you have more than one or two guns, a safe is a s great idea. Along with one of these, and your family has no need to worry about strangers.

[Jesse Marunde]

If you have more than one or two guns, a safe is a s great idea. Along with one of these, and your family has no need to worry about strangers.

too true... Callie has a 357 that she really likes. One of her hippy friends was argueing with her about her pistol and said, "You've got big, mean dogs and a 320 pound husband, what the heck do you need a gun for?!?" And Callie answered, "For whatever makes it past them."

In addition to our American Bulldog, Jack the Ripper, we also have a neo mastiff. Come on burglers, bring it!

[ADAMBAUER]

too true... Callie has a 357 that she really likes. One of her hippy friends was argueing with her about her pistol and said, "You've got big, mean dogs and a 320 pound husband, what the heck do you need a gun for?!?" And Callie answered, "For whatever makes it past them."

In addition to our American Bulldog, Jack the Ripper, we also have a neo mastiff. Come on burglers, bring it!

I would hate to see what gets past them!!! :LOL:

[Jeff Bach]

The GunVault really does open quickly. It has 4 buttons for your fingers and you code in a combination of three different presses with different combinations of your fingers basically. Seconds is accrate and no one else is going to figure it out.

Things really change with kids around. You have to really be safe with guns but also want quick access for whatever makes it past:-)

[chrisklavette]

A problem I have is that I can not keep the clip loaded. If you do you ruin the spring. Any ideas on how to fix this problem?

[Steve Ryan]

What part of Compton do you guys all live at?

[chrisklavette]

What part of Compton do you guys all live at?
East side is the best side!

[Anson Castelvecchi]

A problem I have is that I can not keep the clip loaded. If you do you ruin the spring. Any ideas on how to fix this problem?


Keep the clip loaded and buy a new one every six months or so. This is one reason I prefer relovlers, they are simple and have fewer moving parts.

[Jesse Marunde]

Keep the clip loaded and buy a new one every six months or so. This is one reason I prefer relovlers, they are simple and have fewer moving parts.

better yet, go for the S+W hammerless 357. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14766&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y)

[Sean Hatley]

If you have more than one or two guns, a safe is a s great idea. Along with one of these, and your family has no need to worry about strangers.
Dude im getting a lion. Why you ask. You can get past a dog, no one screws with a Lion

[Ryan Wells]

A problem I have is that I can not keep the clip loaded. If you do you ruin the spring. Any ideas on how to fix this problem?

I just keep 5-6 rounds in my magazines at a time. That will save your springs. In the military, they only let us put 28 rounds in our 30 round M4 magazines so we didn't mash the springs.

[Ryan Wells]

better yet, go for the S+W hammerless 357. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14766&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y)

Yeah, hammerless is the way to go, if you're going to conceal. That dove tail can cost you your life if it got caught on your clothing.

[Steve Means]

too true... Callie has a 357 that she really likes. One of her hippy friends was argueing with her about her pistol and said, "You've got big, mean dogs and a 320 pound husband, what the heck do you need a gun for?!?" And Callie answered, "For whatever makes it past them."

In addition to our American Bulldog, Jack the Ripper, we also have a neo mastiff. Come on burglers, bring it!

I've got a buddy that is totally against guns. He had a home invasion robbery and shortly after got 2 neo's and a Bordeux. Oooooouge dogs! We were having a BBQ and the bordeux almost knocked me over to get my burger.

[Ryan Wells]

I've got a buddy that is totally against guns. He had a home invasion robbery and shortly after got 2 neo's and a Bordeux. Oooooouge dogs! We were having a BBQ and the bordeux almost knocked me over to get my burger.

What happens if the burglar smashes a window and tosses in five pounds of raw ground sirloin? Would the dogs still attack?

[Steve Ryan]

Did any of you know that Arnold kills EXACTLY 82 people in the final scene of Commando. At the start of the movie he had a shed full of guns and still was ambushed. :) :B:

[Smith, Andrew]

Dude im getting a lion. Why you ask. You can get past a dog, no one screws with a Lion


Not sure if you meant to, but great quote. Grandma's Boy was a great movie.

[Sean Hatley]

Not sure if you meant to, but great quote. Grandma's Boy was a great movie.
Oh yeah i ment to quote it. Great movie.

[Garrick Daft]

What is the best handgun to get for concealment in a car? Both male and female?

[Mac Smith]

Wifey carries a .380 and I have several handguns and rifles. I also have an American Bulldog, a boxer, and of course the dreaded maltese!!! Its ok to own guns but many people need to recognize that guns aren't usually for protection, but mainly because people just like guns. Most burglars are opportunist not killers. Very few homicides are committed in burgluries, bank robberies, or even carjackings and this includes the inner city. So stop trying to justify gun ownership as a protection issue, because statistics state otherwise. Just man up and say, I HAVE GUNS, BECAUSE I LIKE GUNS!!! That's what I say! And I'm proud of being a gun owner. And I'm as liberal as they come. But if someone does try to enter the Smith Crib... I've got .44 reasons for him to think otherwise!!! But of course I live in the gated community suburbs, where everyone drives Mercedes, BMWs, and Cadillacs (except me!!), so I doubt me and mine are in much danger!!! :EL:

[Dane Kelley]

im with mac i have guns because i love guns not because i think i need to defend myself. i only have three guns. 30-30, double barrel 12 gauge and a 44 mangle'em .

as far as what is the best gun for both male and female for self defense i would have to say the mini glock you might not hit anything but you'll scare the hell out of whatever you're shooting at.

[Smith, Andrew]

We just picked up a AR15 from Bushmaster; tactical stock, forward mounted pistol grip, forward mounted flashlight, red dot. Such a pretty gun.

[chrisklavette]

In the military, they only let us put 28 rounds in our 30 round M4 magazines so we didn't mash the springs.
Where were you at that you had M4's? Yeah, that is where I learned the whole clip longevity thing. But, it never worked our clips still would crap out all the time.

[Joshua Davis]

What is the best handgun to get for concealment in a car? Both male and female?

For a real answer to your question, it is whatever pistol both persons are most comfortable with and shoot the best while being concealable. I constantly recommend that you try out several pistols by renting a few at your local gun range. Personally, I have found that for those new to self-defense firearms seeking an automatic pistol, the glock 19 is a good choice, the sharp grip angle and low bore seem to favor a newer shooter accuracy-wise... plus it is a fullsize pistol with a thin profile. The 9mm cartridge won't scare new shooters away, yet it is well proven and inexpensive to practice with.

However, and you MUST HEED THIS WARNING... Unless it has recently changed, Ohio's concealed carry law does not permit concealed carry in your vehicle. Many guys that I know who concealed carry in OH keep a external holster (like a paddle holster) in their vehicle so they can draw their pistol and place it in a paddle holster kept on their seatbelt.

[rod johnson]

My wife say she doesn't need a gun because she has the biggest and meanest set of gun's lying next to her haha. but i do sleep with my gun "no kidden" I have made alot of people made at me in my job. Also Joshua is right for anyone thinking of getting a concealed weapons permitt make sure you check out your local and state laws.

[Sean Hatley]

We just picked up a AR15 from Bushmaster; tactical stock, forward mounted pistol grip, forward mounted flashlight, red dot. Such a pretty gun.
Wow, thats awsome. You might as well just pick up a mini-gun. Just to be sure. Still that gun sounds sweet.

[Derek Poundstone]

Where were you at that you had M4's? Yeah, that is where I learned the whole clip longevity thing. But, it never worked our clips still would crap out all the time.
I carry a .40 cal SW99 (Smith and Wesson and Walther hybred) for work. I have three 12 round sources (clips) that have been loaded to capacity for three years. My gun is always duty loaded (12 in the clip, 1 in the camber, no safety). I've never had any issues with source spings. I dont shoot much anymore, maybe 3 times a year plus re-qualifying once per year. During re-qualifying, I put 1000 rounds through the gun and never have had any issues with source malfunctions. Newer semi-autos dont have this issue to my knowledge.

BTW, I'm with Mac. Statistics show that if you are to get murdered by someone, its gonnna be someone you know. If your house is burgalarized and you display a gun someone could get shot. Chances are if someone gets shot during a burgulary, its gonna be the victim (these are national statisctic that favor the victim as far as injurys go in violent burgularys and crimes in genereal where a gun is present, either the victims or the assailents). Burgualry's are property crimes. I for one dont wanna shoot someone thats trying to steal my flat screen. If you dispay a gun, you better be ready to use it! If he just wanted my flat screen and I pulled out a gun, I just escalated the situation. Screw it, I'd rather pay my $500 home owners ins deductable then kill some fool!! My $.02.

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

What happens if the burglar smashes a window and tosses in five pounds of raw ground sirloin? Would the dogs still attack?


I hate to say this, but I'm from South Africa and there, the people just shoot the dogs when they burgle the house. Friends there had their pit bull stabbed to death with a sword through a window before their house was burgled. Sad place.

In Nz, personal handguns are illegal. Guns are basically only for hunting purposes. Somehow, there is still 1 gun for every 4 people, but the murder rate is still only 60 or so people a year. Better than 36 000 a year in RSA on average.

[Alan Benninga]

An elderly woman once gave me a box of misc. ammunition of her late husband's. She said he had it for years and years in the basement. It was all very old, with some unopen boxes of WWII GI 45acp. Included in the box were some very worn 1911 mags that were fully loaded. The rounds in the mags were green and very corroded. I emptied and cleaned them, and they still worked in my Kimber.

My carry weapons are topped off.

Mags are the most common cause of weapon failure, but it is more likely related to lips or followers.

[Smith, Andrew]

Wow, thats awsome. You might as well just pick up a mini-gun. Just to be sure. Still that gun sounds sweet.


Haha if I could mount it on the hood of my armored vehicle, I would, but alas I'll just have to stick with my rocket launcher.

[Ryan Wells]

Where were you at that you had M4's? Yeah, that is where I learned the whole clip longevity thing. But, it never worked our clips still would crap out all the time.

I was a Forward Observer (13F) in 2-319th FA, 82nd Airborne, Ft. Bragg. in 1997, we were one of the first units in the Army that got the new M4's. For those who don't know, the M4 is an M16 with a shortened heavy barrel and a telescoping stock.

My last year in, I got snagged to do a 12 month tour in Korea. There, I was on the DMZ in 1-506th Air Assault http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-giant.htm. Ironically, that was one of the first units in Korea to get the new M4's as well. We used to call regular M16's muskets.

Thanks for asking...Where were you? What did you do?

[Steve Kirit]

Join a range and if having weapons interests you, go often and spend a ton on ammo...you will become very good with what you have and most likely you will stop thinking of defensive scenarios which you will rattle off bullets at a living thing (especially a person) Shooting is a skill, and a pretty cool sport, hell check out some vids of Rob Leatham with his 1911, it's an art. It's an activity that requires great respect and calm. Target shooting and or defensive pistol training is a symphony of motor skills that can wash away the day's tensions like few other activities can.
One thing I learned about becoming an avid shooter, there are more gun experts than there are strongman and lifting experts! Education and training will help you quickly discern between someone with some real usefull knowledge and someone talking out of their behind. If home defense truly concerns you, try a pump Shotgun by remington or a mossy persuader 6-8 capacity..simple to operate in a high stress scenario, and by using buckshot or a target load you will not have to worry so much about being sued by the families of the neighbors you disrupt with high powered revolver and or rifle ammo (unless live you live way out in the sticks like Jesse!). The bb's from a shotgun will most likely stick in the wall. Also, good chance you will hit what you are aiming at firng under extreme stress.

If you feel the need to legally carry for "protection" provided you live in a ccw state , I would say go with a reliable autolader, something with not-so-tight tolerances like a GLOCK that will feed even when you limp wrist it when you are in an adrenaline filled fog at 250 beats per second, and for gosh sakes .40sw or .45 those pesky 9 mil's can bounce off windshields, knees, ask any LEO. (great for plinking at the range though!) keep it ready to go in two seconds flat from holster to threat, this, takes time and practice. I'm far from an expert, but 500-1000 pistol and rifle rounds a week for the last year has given me a little insight and respect for a great activity that should be experienced by all responsible people at some point in their lives especially the haters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cay7UTL8nPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guKd1lWokCQ

[Derek Poundstone]

Steve, do you know the judge in the first video? He looks like my firearms instructor from a few years back. His last name is Nonan, he's a retired cop from West Hartford, Ct. Wasn't sure if you know the guy shooting or just a vid you wanted to post? Just curious, there's no mistaking Nonan when you see him. He is an awesome shot, I saw him hit the center of mass on a sillouette target from 15 yards with a gun upside down holding it with two fingers. It was very impressive.

BTW, I'm the farthest thing from a gun nut as demonstrated by my previous post. I only carry when I'm on the job and shoot enough to keep me well trained.

[Steve Kirit]

Steve, do you know the judge in the first video? He looks like my firearms instructor from a few years back. His last name is Nonan, he's a retired cop from West Hartford, Ct. Wasn't sure if you know the guy shooting or just a vid you wanted to post? Just curious, there's no mistaking Nonan when you see him. He is an awesome shot, I saw him hit the center of mass on a sillouette target from 15 yards with a gun upside down holding it with two fingers. It was very impressive.

BTW, I'm the farthest thing from a gun nut as demonstrated by my previous post. I only
carry when I'm on the job and shoot enough to keep me well trained.

No bro, I just pulled the vid off of youtube, the guy in the first vid is Rob Leatham, from what i read he is regarded as the most winning pistol shooter, the second guy, I believe is the 2005 champ.

[Nikhil Rao]

Defensive gun uses number between 1 and 2 million times a year. Most of these do not require the discharge of the firearm. This from a study commissioned by the CLINTON department of justice.

Home invasion and violent crime in general are up in areas where gun ownership is down or restricted. In England, overall violent crime is a large multiple of what it is here, possibly because self defense is now illegal in that country.

As I think Mac remarked, criminals are largely opportunists. They will take the easiest option. If a large segment of the population is armed, criminals will be less inclined to commit crimes, for fear of retaliation. Criminals themselves will admit to this. The point of defensive firearm ownership isn't the use of the firearm, but rather its presence.

As an analogy, not many people mess with us. This is because we are frequently the largest people in the room. We don't actually have to hurt people to get that kind of respect, we just have to appear to be capable of doing damage.

Like Teddy said, speak softly and carry a big stick.

Personally, I've always been far more about the right to use firearms than I have about using themselves. I'm getting my CCW license for no reason other than because I can. I actually was a vocal 2nd amendment supporter for several years before I ever pulled the trigger.

But at the end of the day, throw out all the statistics, throw out all the BS logic and reasoning. Everyone here is strong and/or big. Many of us are trained in martial arts. But what if we weren't, what if we were a female who was 110lbs soaking wet?

My major problem with banning knives, guns, and all that stuff is ultimately that I don't want to live in a society where might makes right. Where a man can force a woman to do his sexual bidding because our government decided that bare hands are enough for anyone. A lot of people on the left talk about level playing fields and all that, why then would they refuse to allow those not physically gifted to have a chance against a stronger assailant? There's a reason they call firearms the equalizer, after all.

Oh, on firearms recommendations, follow the KISS principle. Jesse's link would be my first suggestion. Taurus makes cheaper guns that are very similar in quality as well. If you get a 357/38 revolver you can practice with 38s and load with 357. 38spl is mild and anyone without any major wrist or joint damage should be able to fire it as long as it's not out of an ultralite gun.

[chrisklavette]

I was a Forward Observer (13F) in 2-319th FA, 82nd Airborne, Ft. Bragg. in 1997, we were one of the first units in the Army that got the new M4's. For those who don't know, the M4 is an M16 with a shortened heavy barrel and a telescoping stock.

My last year in, I got snagged to do a 12 month tour in Korea. There, I was on the DMZ in 1-506th Air Assault http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-giant.htm. Ironically, that was one of the first units in Korea to get the new M4's as well. We used to call regular M16's muskets.

Thanks for asking...Where were you? What did you do?
I was in division from 99-03. Feet and knees together!

[Ryan Wells]

I was in division from 99-03. Feet and knees together!

Rock on! Fellow paratrooper brethren. Small world.

[Derek Poundstone]

No bro, I just pulled the vid off of youtube, the guy in the first vid is Rob Leatham, from what i read he is regarded as the most winning pistol shooter, the second guy, I believe is the 2005 champ.
ohh, I saw the name of the shooter, it was the judge that I recognize.

[Will Irby]

My dad got a Ruger Vacaro (sp?) from one of his buddies who owns a gun shop for Xmas and it had a gun lock in the case with it (as all new ones now do I believe). Dad asked the guy "where do this go?" The guy said, "in the trash."

Just a funny semi off topic story. At least I thought so.

[Ian Duggan]

Home invasion and violent crime in general are up in areas where gun ownership is down or restricted. In England, overall violent crime is a large multiple of what it is here, possibly because self defense is now illegal in that country.
I'll grant you that burglary rates are higher in many countries than in the US (but whether this is due to gun laws or not is hard to prove), but not violent crime. Not by a long shot.

Granted there has been a rise in the UK recent years, but it's pretty slight. And it has nothing to do with gun control laws which have not changed in any significant way for a while now.

Take murder for example - US has 42 or so per 100,000, UK has 14. stats here (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita.)

Yet your numbers are similar on assault - both in the mid 700s per 100,000 here (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita)

If fact almost everything considered violent crime is either level, or in most cases higher in the US. The figures of interest that are significantly higher are murder and suicide (still the highest cause of death by firearm in the US). It's easier to take a life in the US than it is in UK. Nearly ever stat I've seen has shown that guns in the home do predominantly this- increase the likely hood of homicide, suicide or accidental shooting. here (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/329/15/1084)

I'm not attempting to debate gun control in any way here, I'm just saying - rarely do statistics show that guns make a country safer.

Unless it's Switzerland.

Damn Swiss spoiling a perfectly good argument...

[Joshua Davis]

Regarding: Full magazines and spring failure

I am with Poundstone on this one. I keep my carries (SIG and Glock) at full+1 at all times... with backup mags at full as well. Usually one on me, one in safe.

The problems with mag failure requires movement... so if you are regularly emptying your mags (especially if currently in a certian sandy area where there is a lot more triggertime), then I could believe mag failure will happen from staying "topped off", but not because you are topped of, more because the magazine spring is flexing, then expanding, then flexing, etc...

That being said, if you are police or CCW, chances are you aren't emptying a magazine on a weekly basis unless you are at the range. Of course, since SIG gave me a stack of free mags when I bought my P229, and CDNN sells glock mags cheaply, I always keep mags of FMJ for range time, and hollows for carrying. I have put well over 6k rounds through my topped off SIG mags, not so many on the glock since it's newer, but I have yet to have a mag failure, even when I have kept the mags topped at all times.

[Nikhil Rao]

Ian, my take on the statistics is that you can't necessarily say that guns make people safer, but you can't say they cause crime either.

They have shown that states that adopted concealed carry laws have seen larger drops in crime than states that haven't, for one thing. And the places with the highest murder rates in the US generally have the strictest gun control policies. And with each new gun control law these places impose, violent crime actually goes up.

They have actually failed to show a causal lnk between firearm access and suicide. If you want to kill yourself, not having a gun is not going to stop you. Japan has the highest rate of anywhere, and they have very stringent gun control laws.

Among violent crime, murder tends to happen to only a subset of the population. Murders tend to be drug/gang related, or by someone you know (jilted lover, stalker, etc.). Assault and rape happen much more indiscriminately. I don't even look at murder rates when I try to figure out how violent a place is for that reason.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,647991,00.html There they state that overall violent crime in London is six times what it is in New York. I did a master's at University College London, and on the first day of orientation they started out with "1/3 of you will be robbed. 1/6th of you will be violently assaulted or robbed this year." Hardly encouraging that.

http://www.dailyadultjoke.com/gunfacts.htm

http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/key2000i/index.htm
A UN (not gun friendly lol) study of different crimes.

There's plenty more, but you can use google as well as I can, bud. Plus I'm pretty sure neither of us are going to change our minds any time soon.

Let me just say that during my year in London I had two huge fears
1. That I'd need medical care.
2. That I'd have to defend myself from a violent attacker. Not the defense itself, but being prosecuted for commiting such a heinous 'crime'.

That's the last I'll say about it in this thread, though. Do not want to start a huge debate and besides that's not the point of this forum.

[Nikhil Rao]

oh here's one thing to consider about loaded mags.

Many people, when they pull out their mag and rack the slide will put the chambered cartridge back into the mag. This is not a big deal if it's done once. But if that same cartridge is placed back on top and rechambered a couple times, the setback from the bullet striking the feed junk can result in dangerously high chamber pressures.

Some people recommend cycling the cartridges so the one that was on top is now on the bottom. Personally I'd just toss the cartridge after the first time.

my carry gun's a revolver and isn't currently carried though, so no worries on this end.

[Ian Duggan]

Ian, my take on the statistics is that you can't necessarily say that guns make people safer, but you can't say they cause crime either.
Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that 100%. I don't think the issues that we've been talking about are ever caused by just one thing.

There's plenty more, but you can use google as well as I can, bud. Plus I'm pretty sure neither of us are going to change our minds any time soon.
Not only that, but I'm sure we could both find endless stats to back up our points...

:D

Some interesting reading in there though, thanks for those.

Oh yeah, and sorry for hijacking the thread briefly. My bad...