Please tell the world we need help - Iran

[Jesse Snadden]

From Ironmind

“Please Tell The World We Need Help” by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2007 IronMind


It began as a strongman contest, but it quickly became much more.

We arrived in Iran on Tuesday,” Arild Haugen told IronMind, “and the contest should have started on Wednesday,” speaking of the World Strongman Cup competition in Iran last week.

Wednesday morning, though, there was no equipment, Haugen said, so the competitors waited until Thursday, and still there was no equipment, and “Nobody told us anything,” Haugen said. Friday morning, still no equipment, but then it finally showed up.

The money promised to competitors still had not materialized, Haugen said, and this was especially problematic since some of the competitors had paid their own way over, with the promise of reimbursement along with their prize money. In addition to these expenses, competitors such as Haugen were taking time off work, without pay, in order to compete.

At this point, the competitors said that either they got paid or they would not compete, but eventually a compromise was reached: The competitors offered to do one event on Friday, and then agreed to do two events, with the understanding that the money would then have to be produced or they would not continue, and so things began with the truck pull, followed by the log press. After the log press, though, things deteriorated rapidly.

”Two nice girls wanted a photo with me,” Arild Haugen said, “so I lifted them up. The police grabbed the girls and put them straight in jail.” None of the competitors were arrested, but Haugen was told that he had to copy in his own writing and then sign an apology that the contest organizer had written, which was then going to be delivered to the police, and he had to sign it “Arild Stupid Haugen.” Asked if he was afraid that he might be arrested, too, Haugen said that he expected to be arrested, but he was never afraid: “I knew they wouldn’t kill me,” he said.

Not everyone had this confidence, because an Iranian citizen who had been talking to the competitors, and not saying the most favorable things about the current regime, received a phone call saying that he was about to be arrested. The man reportedly started crying and he told the competitors that he expected to be killed. A number of the competitors gave the man their business cards and offered to do whatever they could to help him.

It was an eye-opening experience, to say the least, for competitors who had never been to Iran before and there was a feeling that the very fact that the Iranian people were enjoying the contest and having a good time set the stage for the quick and harsh police reaction - a competitor who danced was reportedly censured, and another, who held a baby, was also reprimanded, because the baby was a girl. Competitors were approached by Iranian citizens who begged, “Please tell the world we need help,” and the police and government were described as “crazy.”

Svend Karlsen, President of Pro Strongman - Norway, told IronMind that as a result of this, “No Norweigan athletes will compete in Iran,” and the whole episode has probably put World Strongman Cup on a prepaid or cash-on-delivery basis: Next up on the World Strongman Cup calendar is a competition in Dubai, and IronMind has heard more than once that unless the money due from Iran, along with some pre-payment or proof of funds for Dubai, materializes, competitors will not participate in that contest.



:EP:

[Matt Brouse]

We should go ahead and keep all our athletes out of there as well. Good call Svend, this is ridiculous.

[Adam Keep]

This is how they are though and we have to accept that. This is a sad thing to have happened, but they are one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and our baby of a country and our American way of life is not something they seem to want a part of. Oh well, time to press on to the next show and plan ahead next time.

[Jay O'Neill]

Does the year 1980 ring a bell... we don't need another hostage situation like that.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Does the year 1980 ring a bell... we don't need another hostage situation like that.


I don't know how many of the people on this board are old enough to remember that one Doc. I agree with you for sure...

[Jesse Snadden]

That's why we have wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

[chrisklavette]

People talk about how "the rest of the world hates America". Seems like I am not to fond of "the rest of the world".

This is crap. Why is it Target and taxi services will bend over backwards so as not to offend anyones culture but when other cultures visit these horrific parts of the world WE have to once again accustom to their rules. This passive state of affairs will end up doing more harm than good. When I was in Iraq they told the women who were deploying with us to follow certain customs. Customs as cover yourself fully and never look a man in the eye when speaking to him. F' that I say.

[Billy Wolt]

damn, that's crazy stuff.

[AaRoNSnider]

You are right Chris.We seem cater to everyone else,yet we go somewhere else and have to fear for our safety.My guess is that the competitors were given very little information,if any on what they could and could not do while in the country.It sounds like they got there and were pretty much lost on what was going on.Once again,thank God I do not have to live like that.

[Jay Hagadorn]

People talk about how "the rest of the world hates America". Seems like I am not to fond of "the rest of the world".

This is crap. Why is it Target and taxi services will bend over backwards so as not to offend anyones culture but when other cultures visit these horrific parts of the world WE have to once again accustom to their rules. This passive state of affairs will end up doing more harm than good. When I was in Iraq they told the women who were deploying with us to follow certain customs. Customs as cover yourself fully and never look a man in the eye when speaking to him. F' that I say.

Chris-

Political correctness is a disease which can ruin nations and individuals. There are bad and good people in any country. Unfortunately there are many bad things going on in that area of the world.
I just did the only thing that came to my mind to not be passive. I sent this link to all the local news and radio stations. I would also gladly send these guys some money to offset their expenses if needed.
On another note: These athletes should be briefed about any culture before they ever step foot off the plane which would alleviate issues such as this.

[Garrick Daft]

Careful what you say.....they might issue a fat wahhhh cry for jihad against Marunde Muscle!! Send in little little suicidal trolls and crap to blow up threads.

Seriously though...I didn't think my pissed-offedness for Iran's govt crazies could get any higher. But then they go and lock up Arild Haugen, and make him sign his name as "Stupid"......WTF is that!!!!

Imagine if Norway or the USA or Bumfuk Egypt did that to Rezzadehaahah what the hell ever his name is. There would be a literal tidal wave of hate and destruction spewing forth from over there.

Oh well....sleeping giants lay...awaiting...

[Scott Markowitz]

Although I understand your fustration Chris, there is a huge difference in living in a multi-cultural society and a mono-cultural society. We are a great country because of our diversity and willingness to respect other cultures' customs and not in spite of it.

I think his point is that it seems as if that respect is too often a one-way street.

I don't agree with much of the hard line treatment of radical Islamic regimes just like I don't agree with much of the radical Christian conservatives in this country, but when in Rome...

This is just crap. The two are nowhere close to the same. Even the most rabid Christian conservatives don't advocate stoning unmarried teenage girls for making out, or arresting people (and who knows what else) for taking a picture with someone of the opposite sex. I am aware of a very small minority who are pretty hard-line on homosexuality, but they are seen as kooks by everyone else in the movement. It is my experience that whenever they spout their stuff, they are almost always greeted either with shout-downs or at the very least a collective rolling of the eyes (and I've been known to hang out with pretty much everyone this side of the guys with white hoods, and I even know a couple of those guys).

I think I'm more interested in the state of WSC rather than the Iranian government policies.

I think this is more why "the rest of the world hates us" - we are seen as materialistic, etc.

That said, I am also concerned about the state of the business. Not overly concerned at this point, being one contest (that I'm aware of, anyway) but if it becomes a pattern...well, that would just not be good for anyone (except maybe those who are just dying to see one pro strongman org).

[Barney Shannon]

I don't know how many of the people on this board are old enough to remember that one Doc. I agree with you for sure...

I remember it all too well.

[Mac Smith]

Does the year 1980 ring a bell... we don't need another hostage situation like that.


I, too, remember that all to well, Jay.

I've removed my earlier posts because I don't want it to turn into a religious debate.

Sad, what Arild went through, I hope all international sports organizations brief their athletes on local customs before they go. The middle east, Isreal and some moderate muslim countries including Dubai included, aren't the greatest places to go right now. I would recommend that these organizations try to stay away from hotspots like these.

[Josh Kamins]

Its too bad too, because there are some amazing places there. The 5 weeks I spent in Israel I saw some of the most awe inspiring scenes, and I'm sure the long history of that region creates some equally amazing sights in modern Babylon, Persia, etc.

[Nikhil Rao]

This is how they are though and we have to accept that. This is a sad thing to have happened, but they are one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and our baby of a country and our American way of life is not something they seem to want a part of. Oh well, time to press on to the next show and plan ahead next time.

to compare them to what Persia was is an insult. Iran today has nothing in common with the Persia of old except geography.

The old persia was one of the most progressive and forward thinking civilizations in the world. They placed much value on science, logic, and reason. Not true of modern Iran.

Today they are an islamic theocracy. A place where no one has any rights, and women are treated as subhuman. That is not something we have to accept, nor should we.

I'm not saying that we should bomb the crap out of them, just that we should be willing to stand and be counted as people who are willing to criticize and denounce that barbaric regime.

Course, as I said, the issue of islamic theocracies and terrorism hits much closer to home with me than it does with yall.

[Jesse Snadden]

The two are nowhere close to the same. Even the most rabid Christian conservatives don't advocate stoning unmarried teenage girls for making out, or arresting people (and who knows what else) for taking a picture with someone of the opposite sex.

The have done worst in the past and would do today if we didn't have laws in North America that prohibit it. Extremism is bad in any way you look at it.

[Nikhil Rao]

This is just crap. The two are nowhere close to the same. Even the most rabid Christian conservatives don't advocate stoning unmarried teenage girls for making out, or arresting people (and who knows what else) for taking a picture with someone of the opposite sex. I am aware of a very small minority who are pretty hard-line on homosexuality, but they are seen as kooks by everyone else in the movement. It is my experience that whenever they spout their stuff, they are almost always greeted either with shout-downs or at the very least a collective rolling of the eyes (and I've been known to hang out with pretty much everyone this side of the guys with white hoods, and I even know a couple of those guys).
.

You know, I grew up as a brown heathen in the bible belt. And some of the hardline christian conservatives could get damn annoying. But not once did I fear for the safety of myself or my family. NOT ONCE.

Then I spent a year in England in a part of town with a high percentage of muslims. And even though I blend in pretty well, I could see the looks of hatred they bestowed upon white people and knew that only my camouflage kept me from the same. And I could see the way they treated their women. Sitting while their women wearing floor length burqas stood on the bus. And when I'd stand up to offer my seat...they wouldn't even let them take it!

I was there during 7/7, when not a mile from me people were out on the streets cheering AL QAEDA AL QAEDA even as they willingly were a part of the stupid generosity of England's social welfare system, happy with their subsidized educations and socialized healthcare.

And I was in India when muslims decided that what they needed to do was to come to a part of India THAT THEY HAD HISTORICALLY NEVER LIVED IN and threaten to behead ANY Hindu who went to temple to worship ON OUR HOLY DAYS.

And while I wasn't there, I read with heavy heart about the schoolgirls and monks being killed all over the historically hindu/buddhist areas of thailand just for being hindu and buddhist.

I am anything but a fan of christian conservatives (I like christians and christianity, just don't think it should be mixed with politics), but do not insult them by comparing them to the islamofascists. And do not make islamofascists out to be anywhere near as reasonable as christian conservatives.

(note that i use the word islamofascist to differentiate from muslim immigrants who are open and tolerant, as opposed to the ones that move to the US and EUrope then try to turn it into Sharia City)

[Daniel Atchison]

Islamic Extremism is something that we all see to be completely ridiculous, but thats pretty much all we can do. Just as said in the previous post we also have extremist in our society in the form of evangelicals, Catholics, and Mormons. When society allows these "INSTITUTIONS" become too powerful then things such as "abstinence only sex-ed" occurs, which is something the Bush adminstration has enacted in public schools in the United States. Iran has it in a completely different degree, women are limited to a specific criteria of social interaction, religion is completely dominant in the political sphere of domestic and international policies. I would just suggest that those organizations looking to compete within the region hold-off until the situation in Iraq comes to a conclusion. The sharp stance the US has taken to Iran hasn't helped in reducing the hatred to western civilizations. I must add that it is deeply saddening that religious freedom couldn't be promoted more effectively in Afghanistan and Iraq's current governments, because unless it happens things of this nature will continue to happen... Iran is Iraqs intermediate neighbor and when we (US & Britian) leave then politics are going to be domiated by the Shia, which is Irans majority. (Thats why Sadaam was so good within the region, he acted as a balance to the Shia dominance).Another side note: higher the education, less the religious extremism, therefor I would promote that NGO (non-governmental organizations) look into increasing the social-capital of the region, but even that would be heavily regulated in the form of what is taught.

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

I am anything but a fan of christian conservatives, but do not insult them by comparing them to the islamofascists. And do not make islamofascists out to be anywhere near as reasonable as christian conservatives.

)


Thanks for that.

[Nikhil Rao]

we can at least prevent their spread in Europe and in our own borders.

Tolerance has to have an endpoint. And when they start to abuse women and preach their sermons of hate and terror within our own borders we need to stand up to it.

Google dearborn muslim extremism for more.

[Daniel Atchison]

Thanks for that.
This is not the place for it but I say what the heck.....



I might motion that some of the Churches ( I call them Cults) within the United States that are comprised of uneducated followers might be a decade or two away from such extreme rituals if were they the majority of the US population
But thats the great thing about Diversity and democracy that is practiced in US allows such political leaders to appease all groups or at least its suppose to work that way when $$ is left out.. :confused:

[ADAMBAUER]

ex·trem·ism /ɪkˈstrimɪzəm/ –noun a tendency or disposition to go to extremes or an instance of going to extremes, esp. in political matters: leftist extremism; the extremism of the Nazis.

Extremism is bad no matter what, lets look at this in terms we can relate to, we are all driven to get stronger, bigger, faster, etc. Now we could go so far as becoming obsessed to the point that all else suffers and the only thing we focus on is our gains. It may get to the point we overtrain, under eat and under sleep or even venture to the darkside of strength sports. We become extremists, is it the same as being a Islamic extremist? or ultra conservitive Christian extremist? Or a Liberal extremist? An extremist is an extremist the only diffrence is what they believe to be true and the steps they take to make there point. However to judge an entire group of people on the acts of a few select is wrong, how often have we been make to feel like second class members of the fitness world? Look at the Planet Fitness lunk alarm. We are being judged by the actions of a few. Same thing in the political world and religion world. We judge an entire group on the actions of a few. Not all Christians are bible thumping right to lifers anti gay anti everything, not all Islamics are terror loving and bomb builders waiting to get to heaven by blowing up western civilation, and not all lifters are lunks, hell right here on this forum we have soldiers, Drs., guys working on their P.HD., professional strength athletes, you name it we have one on these forums. I guess my point is that any extremism in bad no matter what the context.
"The opinions expressed here are those of the writer and in no way reflect the views of anyone except the people in the writers head"

[Daniel Atchison]

ex·trem·ism /ɪkˈstrimɪzəm/ –noun a tendency or disposition to go to extremes or an instance of going to extremes, esp. in political matters: leftist extremism; the extremism of the Nazis.

Extremism is bad no matter what....
:marv: Brilliant! thanks for the educated opinion...

[Nikhil Rao]

This is not the place for it but I say what the heck.....



I might motion that some of the Churches ( I call them Cults) within the United States that are comprised of uneducated followers might be a decade or two away from such extreme rituals if were they the majority of the US population
But thats the great thing about Diversity and democracy that is practiced in US allows such political leaders to appease all groups or at least its suppose to work that way when $$ is left out.. :confused:

the difference being that those churches are actively denounced by mainstream christians. Whereas the extremist mosques are anything from ignored to tolerated to given tacit (and sometimes not so tacit) approval.

Ok I'm out of this thread, getting way too wrapped up in it.

[Daniel Atchison]

Good thing we have free press huh?

[Manuel Buitrago]

This is just crap. The two are nowhere close to the same. Even the most rabid Christian conservatives don't advocate stoning unmarried teenage girls for making out, or arresting people (and who knows what else) for taking a picture with someone of the opposite sex. I am aware of a very small minority who are pretty hard-line on homosexuality, but they are seen as kooks by everyone else in the movement. It is my experience that whenever they spout their stuff, they are almost always greeted either with shout-downs or at the very least a collective rolling of the eyes (and I've been known to hang out with pretty much everyone this side of the guys with white hoods, and I even know a couple of those guys).



Christianity hasnt had a spotless past. When the Church was strong during the greater part of the 1000's, they did some pretty crazy stuff. Salem witch trials happened well after that. The Catholic-Protestant conflicts in Ireland are a more recent example of how strong religiosity can make everyone feel unsafe, even in a Christian frame-work.

[Kevin Klavetter]

OK I have to put my two cents worth in, I have sat on the sidelines to long on this one. There have been a lot of great comments on this covering the whole spectrum from the financial rip off of the competitors to the religious and geopolitical implications. My view on this tends to be more in the route of geopolitical because that is what I find fascinating. So he it goes.

The world will never see the end of oppression and and tyranny until people are willing to for go their petty differences and stand up for human rights regardless if they are hidden behind religious and cultural excuse as is the case of radical Islam, based on race as was apartheid, or just for the sake of power as was communism.

What differentiates apartheid from the female oppression in the middle east? In my opinion nothing. Through the 80's and 90's the world banded together and boycotted and placed economic sanctions on South Africa until they helped bring about change. The main reason this isn't happening in the middle eastern country's is because they have to much wealth and oil, thus corrupting all or at least most who come in contact with it. This, in my opinion is the real reason so many are quick to over look this oppression in the guise of culture.

Most of us have no way to fight this directly so we should do it indirectly by not patronizing these country's and insisting that the events we love are only be held in county's that respect the human and civil rights of everyone.

On last point of when in Rome do as the Romans do. That is a cop out, does this also mean when in Nazi German do as the Nazi's do, when in Darfur do as they do. Sorry wrong is wrong regardless.

Plus I was always raise to be hospitable and give guests the benefit of the doubt and extra leeway, to bad those in the middle east can not do even that simple gesture.

Now I will get down off the soap box before some one wants me to do dead lifts from way up here....

[Jay Hagadorn]

Good people-

Let's not turn this thread into a "Christian" bashing thread as I for one am one (not to mention a large majority of the forum.)

The original post by Jesse was the article from Ironmind. Iranian people asking for help...

[Jonathan Creason]

One big difference you have to remember is those folks claiming to be Christian (they're not) here and using extremist tactics are trying to influence the government. The Islamic extremists are running the government over there.

On another note, Christianity is all about love. Anybody that uses Christianity as a basis for hate and violence are NOT Christians. They're not some bad apples that are spoiling the cart, they're not apples at all.

[Corey DuCharme]

Wow, there are some very interesting and intelligent comments being presented here. I'm glad everybody is calmly discussing things without getting too silly. :D

For some reason people love to jump on any chance they get to drag Christianity through the mud. Probably because they have witnessed the hipocrisy often associated with the religion.

It's true that many horrible things have been done in the name of Christ. That doesn't mean those actions actually represent Christ Himself.

If you are really interested, crack a Bible open and let Jesus speak for Himself. Contrary to what some highly sensationalized, minority scholars say, the Bible is the most historically accurate "document" of it's time. Take a minute and see what kind of guy Jesus really is.

[Daniel Atchison]

Ok not to completely disregard your comment, but the bible was not written by Christ, nor anyone that remotely knew Christ, it was written by the holy spirit. Modern Christianity was written by a least 3-4 different people.

-- Besides that point I agree with you...

Interested in how I got that information? Check this out
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/534047/DOCUMENTARY_Who_wrote_the_Bible_BBC

BBC is the best source you can use when it comes to video documentation..

[Corey DuCharme]

Ok not to completely disregard your comment, but the bible was not written by Christ, nor anyone that remotely knew Christ, it was written by the holy spirit. Modern Christianity was written by a least 3-4 different people.

-- Besides that point I agree with you...

Interested in how I got that information? Check this out
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/534047/DOCUMENTARY_Who_wrote_the_Bible_BBC

BBC is the best source you can use when it comes to video documentation..

This will be my last post because I'm off topic from the threads intent. Technically speaking, the Bible was written by man, inspired (guided) by the Holy Spirit.

The Gospels of Matthew and John were written by men who personally knew Jesus during his ministry. Mark is believed to have written his Gospel based on sermons by the Apostle Peter, another disciple of Jesus. The book of Luke was written based on many eyewitness accounts and thoroughly investigated by it's author, a physician.

You are right, Jesus did not write the Bible, he lived it and the people who lived with him and His followers wrote it.

PM me if you want to chat about this stuff. :)

[DaneGarreau]

I'm glad they are gonna start paying the competitors on site...not sure why they wouldn't do this allready. Also, it's a good idea to pay them in cash, so they don't have to pay taxes on it.

[Scott Markowitz]

This is going to be it for me on this topic, because I am running the risk of getting into a serious rant, but...

Even if what "Christians" did in the past (eg, the Inquisition, the Crusades, Salem witch trials, etc) are the equivalent of what is going on in the Muslim world today, and even accepting that both are representative of the religion (I don't accept either of these suppositions, but let's say they are true ad arguendo) there is still a BIG difference. The stuff about Christianity is PAST TENSE (ie, Christians purged themselves of the bad acts and/or the bad actors) while the stuff about Islam is PRESENT TENSE (ie, it is going on right now, so there's something that can be done about it).

That said, I'm bowing out of this part of the conversation before I end up offending people on purpose.

[BrentHamm]

(I posted this on SDF...)

At first this kinda pissed me off...(and their laws still do)....but after thinking about it....

Lets say some country (who i will not name) allows sex with young girls. If a competitor from that country was here, and he did that...well..he would be in big trouble right?

So...we have definitly have to mind the customs of the country we are competing in. I know when we went to China..we were given some info about stuff like that. Though there was not much info...

Maybe he was not briefed, or maybe he choose too disregard that info.

Anyway..crappy that this happened

[Derek Williams]

One big difference you have to remember is those folks claiming to be Christian (they're not) here and using extremist tactics are trying to influence the government. The Islamic extremists are running the government over there.

On another note, Christianity is all about love. Anybody that uses Christianity as a basis for hate and violence are NOT Christians. They're not some bad apples that are spoiling the cart, they're not apples at all.

GREAT POST, Jonathan. I am also a Christian. And I can also verify that Christ said that not everyone who said unto him "Lord" is a Christian, but those that do the will of His Father (God) who sent Him (Jesus). He (Jesus) also said that real Christians would produce "Fruit" that would indicate that they were Christians. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit, and neither can a good tree produce bad fruit. We can see who is "real" and not by what their lives look like.

I don't trust the majority of the bigger name TV preachers, ESPECIALLY the ones who get involved in US Politics.

Now, as far as laws go, Jesus said in a parable that God did not want the tares (fake wheat) pulled up and destroyed, but to let the tares (fake Christians) grow with the wheat (Real Christians) until the time of the harvest. Then the reapers will gather the good wheat into His barn, and burn the tares (fakes) in the fire.

My suspicion is that there are a whole lot more fakes out there than most people realize. Unfortunately, those fakes give us real ones a bad name. (As well as some real Christians give the rest bad names when they mess up, as we all occassionally do.)

But the message is that we all mess up from time to time, but Real Christians do not STAY messed up, they repent and try to do right after that.

Personally, as far as politics go, I am a Libertarian. I do not believe in the INITIATION of force at all to force your ideas or will or laws upon anyone else. I believe that our country would be much better off if we went back and read the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence, and the writings of Samuel Adams, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson, and quit getting involved in these foreign entanglements that we have no business in, quit spying on our own citizens, and start respecting the US Constitution. I think everyone should read the US Constitution and Declaration at Christmas, July 4th, and Thanksgiving every year. And then only vote for people who really mean what they say when they stand up and swear to preserve, protect, and defend it.

And as far as the Right Wing Religous Extremists go, I would say this: God is perfectly capable of judging sin. He does not need Pat Robertson, George Bush, John Ashcroft, Congress, or anyone else trying to make religious laws in this country to try and force everyone to follow. If you do God's will, or not, that is between you and God.

Government should exist at most to protect the Lives, Liberty, and Property of its citizens. Anything more is going too far. If people act "immoral", and it isn't hurting anyone else, let that be between that person and God. If people use force against you (robbery, murder, etc) ONLY then should the state get involved. When you allow gov't to make up too many "victimless" crimes, we lose all our rights one by one.

I am afraid that too many so called Christian Conservatives in this country have lost their minds and are willing to turn this country into a police state just so long as it is a police state run by someone claiming to be a Christian. My problem is what are they going to do when that person opens up the concentation camps for "sinners" (and they cheer) and then a non-Christian leader later decides it might be nice to use those very same camps to get rid of all the Christians?

Remember this: The government that promotes your religion today, can prohibit it tomorrow.

[Derek Williams]

I would also say this about Iran. And I said essentially the same thing in another thread about the same topic (the Iran contest).

According to this link: http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm

there are 193 countries in the world. ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY THREE. Why in the world would a promoter WANT to have a contest in IRAN, of all places, knowing how they are over there, and that something like this could happen?

Why take a chance on one of your competitors, fans, judges, etc., getting arrested, shot, tortured, etc.?

I would bet that out of that 193, there are probably at least 100-150 countries that offer nice venues to hold contests, friendly locals, good food, clean hotels, etc. I would just write off any country like Iran in the future that has Sharia law or promotes (or is a even a common victim of) terrorism. Keep the athletes safe. Use common sense. Common sense should have kept them out of Iran in the first place, IMHO.

When countries like Iran and others like it are not allowed to host any more international athletic competitions, and suffer the economic consequences because of it, they can rot in the stone ages until they clean up their act.

And not paying the athletes??? That is just pure crap. Unprofessionalism. That is an organization just BEGGING to be put under by a competing organization that will pay their guys.

[Daniel Atchison]

Its like Ive always said, Iran was the top most oppressive regimes in the world a couple years back b4 the Iraq war, yet we took on Saddam... Yes, but you gotta think that their have been big time competitions in Iraq also, I think a while Saddam was in power there was a major bodybuilding competition in Iraq.. Correct me if Im wrong..

[Jesse Snadden]

And not paying the athletes??? That is just pure crap. Unprofessionalism. That is an organization just BEGGING to be put under by a competing organization that will pay their guys.

That was a mistake, generally the WSC is regarded as being good to their athletes.

[NickBrugal]

This is how they are though and we have to accept that. This is a sad thing to have happened, but they are one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and our baby of a country and our American way of life is not something they seem to want a part of. Oh well, time to press on to the next show and plan ahead next time.

There was a time where Slavery was the name of the game in America, if we just sat back and said "Well thats they way it is, no one should ever change" Then what would our Country look like today? Obviously Iranians want help, and the Women surley want SOME freedoms but arn't allowed to express there opionons. Just because somethings always been dosn't make it right, and we don't have to respect it or understand it.

Evil is only alowed to exist if good men stand by and do nothing about it.

[Adam Keep]

Evil is only alowed to exist if good men stand by and do nothing about it.

Too bad that's all anybody seems to want to do these days.

Honestly though, they do need help just not our help. We have spread ourselves too thin and can't handle another Operation Iraqi Freedom or Enduring Freedom right now. On top of that there are plenty of ideas floating around on this thread and only a couple of guys willing to do anything about it. Words don't mean dick, it's the actions that follow those words that get things done. All of the bickering going on in this thread is pretty pointless. We know there is differences between our cultures/religions so lets move on (or join the military and put these words to use).

[Jesse Snadden]

Just because somethings always been dosn't make it right, and we don't have to respect it or understand it.

It WASN't always that way. Iran used to be one of the USA's and British best buddies.

The Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was put in power during WW2 by the Brits. They forced the original Shah to give up his throne for fear that he would support the Axis. They figured his son, Reza Pahlavi, would be more open to being Pro-West. Iran was an Oil Goldmine and the British and Americans wanted a slice of it.

Reza Pahlavi did indeed become very Pro-West, and he supported Women's Equality rights and freedom.


In 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini, a charismatic extremist, voiced his opinion of the Shah as being a corrupted puppet of of the west, which are non muslim. The people felt there was corruption, it was the British that put him in power. It was also the British and Americans that performed a coup d'état to remove a nationaly elected prime minister who wished to nationalize Iran's oil as their own so that they may make profit of their own. The Shah heavily supported the west, and had a secret service called the SAVAK that tortured and assassinated to provide valuable information to the CIA. This along with the women's equal rights all led to the revolution and opposition of the Shah.

[Jay Hagadorn]

That was a mistake, generally the WSC is regarded as being good to their athletes.


Jesse-

Can you open our eyes a little as to how athletes in WSC or even IFSA get paid?

[DaneGarreau]

Jesse-

Can you open our eyes a little as to how athletes in WSC or even IFSA get paid?

I'm not Jesse, but this was reported in Ironmind a few months ago......

"Savickas Wins IFSA Worlds by Randall J. Strossen, Ph.D. | ©2007 IronMind

Mikhail Koklyaev and Zydrunas Savickas were tied coming into the final event, so the winner of their duel would be the 2006 IFSA World Champion.

The last event was the stones, and to set the stage, the world record holder in the event, Travis Ortmayer, had the fastest time, 28.97, before Koklyaev went. Koklyaev ran through the stones in an impressive 29.21 seconds, so now the ball was in Savickas’s court and the big man wasted no time in dropping the hammer: His time of 25.65 seconds gave him the title and a new IFSA world record.

Finals places for were:

1. Savickas
2. Koklyaev
3.Virastyuk
4. Blekaitis
5. Mirumets
6. Szczepanski
7. Benedikt Magnusson
8. Thompson
9. Best
10. Ortmayer
11. Brusokas
12. Katona

IFSA CEO Christian Fennell told IronMind, “We do this for the competitors,” and Magnus Ver Magnusson, who was pivotal in organizing the contest, said that the competitors told him that it was “the best and hardest contest they had ever been in.”

Praising the work done by Magnus Ver Magnusson and others in IFSA, Fennell said, “This was a true test of a world champion in strength events . . . There was no place to hide.”

Fennell said that this contest would be broadcast in over 219 countries and looking toward 2007, Fennel said, “The best thing IFSA can give its athletes is a full slate of top quality events,” mentioning plans to build on and expand what IFSA has accomplished this year.

Prize money was paid on the spot, said Fennell, with US$45,000 for first place, US$25,000 for second place and US$15,000 for third place."

[Jesse Snadden]

I would say generally the federation gets sponsorship to collect enough money upfront so they can promise a certain amount as prize money as well as cover food bills, hotel bills and flight costs.

The sponsors hope to be well advertised, which increases awareness of their buisiness. The amount of money they provide is normally just a write off for them, but they do want to see some kind of return. It's up to the promoter to make sure they are well advertised.

Crowd turnout can bring in more money but it's never a sure fire thing. Often it's simply a result of how well the contest was promoted. That's why sponsorship is definatly important. Most of the crowd money would probably go to pay the federation as to fund their continuing activities, transport, build or borrow equipment etc...

Generally flights are payed upfront, but I'm sure there were complications with this being in Iran and all. I don't imagine the WSC relies on sponsorhip money from the local area, they probably have sponsors that fund the entire series. So it's confusing why the athletes didn't get their flight payed upfront. I'm sure it wasn't anything intentional and the athletes do well to demand to be payed for Iran before leaving to Riga.

Perhaps it's a contractual agreement between the sponsors and WSC that athletes must perform at the contest otherwise the "deals is off" kind of thing. Might be why when the athletes demanded to be payed after a few days of doing nothing in Iran, the WSC told them they need to do a few events first. That still doesn't explain the flight though.

I've never put on a contest myself, but I've competed in 1 international show, and my flight was payed upfront. My hotel and food was all covered and I was payed once the show was finished. Although my poor placing didn't yield much money; therefore, I spent it all on vodka shooters and partied with the organizing staff of the now non-existant USS.

[Kevin Klavetter]

It WASN't always that way. Iran used to be one of the USA's and British best buddies.

The Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was put in power during WW2 by the Brits. They forced the original Shah to give up his throne for fear that he would support the Axis. They figured his son, Reza Pahlavi, would be more open to being Pro-West. Iran was an Oil Goldmine and the British and Americans wanted a slice of it.

Reza Pahlavi did indeed become very Pro-West, and he supported Women's Equality rights and freedom.


In 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini, a charismatic extremist, voiced his opinion of the Shah as being a corrupted puppet of of the west, which are non muslim. The people felt there was corruption, it was the British that put him in power. It was also the British and Americans that performed a coup d'état to remove a nationaly elected prime minister who wished to nationalize Iran's oil as their own so that they may make profit of their own. The Shah heavily supported the west, and had a secret service called the SAVAK that tortured and assassinated to provide valuable information to the CIA. This along with the women's equal rights all led to the revolution and opposition of the Shah.

Good summary of the recent Iranian history.

After return of Khomeini from exile in France they took over the US Embassy and we had the hostage situation in 1979- 1980. This was followed in 1984 by the bombing of the US Marines barracks in Beruit that killed several hundred Marines in which the Irarians have been suspect of providing the explosives and training for.

In the opinion of many this was the start of the current Jihad against the U.S. and the rest of the western world.

And unlike most on this board I am old enough to remember this. I was actual serving overseas in the US Air Force during this time.

[Scott Markowitz]

To get back on topic...

The Iranian guy asked for help. Aside from writing our reps/senators/GWB, does anyone have any ideas on how we could? If we joined the military, as Adam K suggests, unless the civilian leadership decides to pursue a particular course of action there's nothing to directly do. Some have suggested an athletic boycott, but honestly, for most of us isn't that like refusing to buy a Rolls-Royce? How many had planned to participate in an event there anyway?

I really do feel for the majority of Iranians who don't want such a repressive regime, but I don't know what to do about it.

:confused:

[chrisklavette]

Too bad that's all anybody seems to want to do these days.

Honestly though, they do need help just not our help. We have spread ourselves too thin and can't handle another Operation Iraqi Freedom or Enduring Freedom right now. On top of that there are plenty of ideas floating around on this thread and only a couple of guys willing to do anything about it. Words don't mean dick, it's the actions that follow those words that get things done. All of the bickering going on in this thread is pretty pointless. We know there is differences between our cultures/religions so lets move on (or join the military and put these words to use).
Adam you are so right. Pre 9/11 when I was signing up for/already in the military I used to hear a lot of "If we ever got attacked I would fight for this country." Well, 9/11 happened and I saw a lot of these big talkers still in the same place they were on September 10th. Also, how guys do you see whereing patriotic clothing and what not and never serving a day in the military. I takes very little to be a part of the National Guard/Reserves at the least. And honestly when you are young and able it there are a lot of great benefits you recieve.

[Nikhil Rao]

To get back on topic...

The Iranian guy asked for help. Aside from writing our reps/senators/GWB, does anyone have any ideas on how we could? If we joined the military, as Adam K suggests, unless the civilian leadership decides to pursue a particular course of action there's nothing to directly do. Some have suggested an athletic boycott, but honestly, for most of us isn't that like refusing to buy a Rolls-Royce? How many had planned to participate in an event there anyway?

I really do feel for the majority of Iranians who don't want such a repressive regime, but I don't know what to do about it.

:confused:

this might sound silly and idealistic, but why not just subversively spread the seed of liberty?

1776 style, not 1918 style or 1960s style for that matter.

Real honest to god liberty. The words of Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson. Simple and powerful.

A few pamphlets dropped by the ton, maybe one or two people actually planted to foment things. But just get the people worked up until they take the regime down themselves.

Oh yeah, and TARGET THE WOMEN! The most effective and dramatic characters from Iran encouraging reform are the women and always will be. They have more to gain than the men and therefore would be willing to put more energy into it if we could encourage them to do so.

[Josh Kamins]

I say we just have Israel send in mosadd to take out the Ayatollah. And that damn president, he's just as crazy

[Bob Wanamaker]

Sand turns to glass when you nuke it.

:marv: