Who's your hero?

[Tyler MacCallum]

I watched Oprah today about Sidney Poitier and it got me thinking about who I look up to the most. My hero is my dad.

[Jim Glover]

I don't have heroes.

Nobody is perfect and people will let you down no matter how great you think they are.

I look up to a few people.

I look up to my wife for putting up with me and having to deal with alot of serious drama, my mom for being a single mom for a while and doing alright even though my biological father tried to beat her to death a few times and my dad for his work ethic and for adopting me and raising me as his own, other than that I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.

[chrisklavette]

I watched Oprah today about Sidney Poitier and it got me thinking about who I look up to the most. My hero is my dad.
You did what?! :confused:

[Matt Brouse]

Chris brings up a valid point.

Mine is my one and only Lord and Savior Jesus H. Christ.

[jay lyttle]

a figment of your imagination, we have more proof that there are UFO'S then we do that there is a JESUS

[jay lyttle]

I'm Sorry, Whatever You Believe In And Makes You Fell Better Is Real.

[Rob Haan]

I do not know the kids name, but I volunteered at the special olympics a few years ago and this kid in 50 ft race fell down with his walker and than got up dragged the walker behind him as he kind of shuffeled sideways and he finished the race almost aminute after the others. If everyone worked as hard and cared as much about what they were doing as him, a lot more could be accomplished.

I said that in a job interview once and the lady interviewing me told me I was lying.

Rob

[NickBrugal]

My MOM! Words can not even come close to explain how important she's been to me. It takes an amzing women to try to raise a boy into a man all by herself. I have tons of respect for single mothers! I LOVE MY MOM!

[Matt Brouse]

I'm Sorry, Whatever You Believe In And Makes You Fell Better Is Real.
Didn't hurt my feelings, you can't, because they don't exsist. You've got a valid point, too. Mine was said with half joking tone I think.

[Nikhil Rao]

I don't really have heroes or people I look up to. Mainly because I'm a badass. But seriously, if its anyone, it's my grandma. She was larger than life. And who I take after physically. Which is why I'm not even weaker and more pathetic lol.

[Jay O'Neill]

You're lookin at him

[Scott Markowitz]

You're lookin at him

Who, Jesse, or that overhead pressing chicken?

[james rude]

william wallace, the real one

scott sietsema

josh thigpen

anyone who can log press

and Jesus too. if you don't think he was the savior i don't care, but there is a ton of proof that he existed and was executed by the roman government. you'd be pretty stupid to argue that, i think.

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

I don't call Jesus my hero because that goes without saying. He also has an unfair advantage being God and all that.

Deceased I'd say the apostle Paul and Graham May (12/24/2006). Paul feared absolutely no man and only cared about what God wanted. Graham was ranked 7th in the world for SHW Olympic lifting at age 23 and gave it up because he thought his lifestyle was selfish and instead started preaching. I didn't feel worthy to walk in his shadow because of his humility. RIP


Living I'd ave to say John Macarthur. A pastor in the same mould as Paul. He will speak the Truth and that is all he cares for. I hope that maybe one day I could know half of what he does and be half as good a pastor as him.

We had a question at small group/bible study the other night. "If you could be one person living today, who would you be?" I said Misha, he's the greatest. :marv:

[ADAMBAUER]

Christ, Parents, John McCain, John Wayne. Veterans, Military personnel, military families.

[Tyler MacCallum]

You did what?! :confused:

I know that doesn't sound manly watching Oprah, I only watch it when it has a guest I want to see. I do have a soft side but don't care.

[David Campbell]

Growing up I always looked up to comic book heroes. Superman, Spiderman, the Xmen, etc. As for real life heroes I don't think I really have any. I look up to some peoples certain attributes but like its been said, no body is perfect.

clipse

[HunterHenzler]

Christ without a doubt....he gave his life for me...

and of the people still alive....
My Dad...He is actually my leagl dad/Godfather...when my Mom got pregnant with me, my biological father left here I believe, and when I was 2, we moved here to TX and my Dad adopted me.
He's loved my like a son, and I could never be more grateful, I can't imagine what my life would be like without him...
The thing that makes it so much tougher on Dad is that he'll be 70 my SR year, and he suffers from many eye problems, including glaucoma, and cataracts resulting from the glaucoma...
honestly, if I met my biological father, it wouldn't mean to much to me, I'm told I look nothing like him, take almost exactly after my Mom...and honstly...a guy that can have a kid, and NEVER even try and send somethign his way...ever...isn't too important to me..

Anybody can be a father...it takes a real man to be a Dad....

I'm done... [/Rant]

[Mac Smith]

william wallace, the real one

scott sietsema

josh thigpen

anyone who can log press

and Jesus too. if you don't think he was the savior i don't care, but there is a ton of proof that he existed and was executed by the roman government. you'd be pretty stupid to argue that, i think.

Not polite to call people stupid because of YOUR beliefs. For every document that proves the existence of Jesus (which during that time was a popular name), someone could provide an equal amount of evidence proving the contrary. So don't knock people because they don't believe as you do.

My heroe is my father. I've already talked about this several times. He is a great man, I could go on forever about what makes him a heroe. All I can say is 2 bronze stars (one in Vietnam, one in the first Persian Gulf war). 30 yrs military service. Now he's a preacher. Although he and I don't see eye to eye on religion, he proved to me that even though he had to work twice as hard for half as much, what he endured throughout his life showed me that anything is possible. But he also taught me not to be naive about what the true nature of man is. I also have to say my mother, because she held the family together and taught me how important having a good woman on your side can really go a long way.

[ADAMBAUER]

honstly...a guy that can have a kid, and NEVER even try and send somethign his way...ever...isn't too important to me..

Anybody can be a father...it takes a real man to be a Dad....

I'm done... [/Rant]

Damn kid every time I read somthing you post I have to double check your age, such wisdom form a young man. :marv:

[Lance Betts]

[QUOTE=Mac Smith]Not polite to call people stupid because of YOUR beliefs. For every document that proves the existence of Jesus (which during that time was a popular name), someone could provide an equal amount of evidence proving the contrary. So don't knock people because they don't believe as you do.

Oh man here we go!

It's OK for someone to say that Jesus is a "figment of imagination" and in a sarcastic undertone "whatever you believe in and makes you feel better is real".

Listen, I don't interject a lot of my opinions regarding many of the argumentative threads on this forum.

Mac, I do respect your opinions and believe that your very knowledgible in many facets of strength training, competing, team sports, and many other areas of life in general!

But, Man Come On! Your lecturing a guy who is stating that it is stupid to argue the fact that Jesus Christ existed and was crucified by the romans! What's wrong with that statement? It's true with out a doubt! Even non-believers of many other faiths, not all of course, will attest to that!

The issue here is that people of different faiths/beliefs other than that of Christianity, do not believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah, or son of God. Yes, I believe everyone has the right to there own beliefs and or religion! However, it bother me when someone of your intellect ridicules one for his statement and belief, yet not the other, of whom was the original perpetrator, of the very argumentative and sarcastic statements that caused the retalitation.

Seems like your letting YOUR beliefs get in the way of your usuallly good judgement!

Yes, I was also somewhat offended like James, about the previous comments directed on this thread. However, I like most Christians, was letting it slide off my shoulders until I read your biased belittling of James. I don't know you personally MAC. However, I've come accustomed to reading your threads and replies since I've joined this forum. Until now, I always thought you were knowledgible, courteous, and very politically and religiously unbiased. That's why it surprised me so much to read your comments on James's quote, and not Mr. Lyttle's

Remember, freedom of speech goes both ways, NOT just to the LEFT!

[Nikhil Rao]

Remember, freedom of speech goes both ways, NOT just to the LEFT!

You do realize dont' you that the Christian Right as a political movement is younger than I am (23), right?

And secular conservatism as a political force in this country has always been more dominant up until very recently right?

Your assumption that non-christian = left is something I find extremely insulting, being a non-christian that has probably been more vocal and had more exposure as a non-lefty than you have.

I also find it troubling. I left conservatism for libertarianism because ultimately while personally very socially conservative I didn't see that I had a right to force people to live the same way as I did. I still don't approve of such behaviors that I'm in favor of legalizing (like prostitution and drugs), but I won't stop another man from doing them.

We all talk about God or some higher power being the final judge, so lets not be so egotistical as to try to do his work for him using government. As 311 says, do what you will should be the whole of the laws until you violate the rights of another. And lets leave the moral judgment to god, to church, and to our communities, rather than to the government.

Course, I'm a heathen so I'll leave you with an article from a Christian:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34361

[ADAMBAUER]

Hey folks this was a thread about our personal heros, therefore we don't have to agree with each other. We all have our rights to believe what we want, lets not trample each others beliefs lets just respect them.

[Jason Thurston]

My lord and savior Jesus Christ goes without saying. My dad and grandma are my other heros. My dad raised 4 children as a single parent, and my grandma helped him out a lot. Without those 2 people I wouldn't be the man I am today.

[Russell Selcho]

Yes, I was also somewhat offended like James, about the previous comments directed on this thread. However, I like most Christians, was letting it slide off my shoulders until I read your biased belittling of James. LEFT!

why is it every time I see a christian trying to back up an argument they have to justify it by saying something like the above quote, such as "slide off my shoulders". As a few people on here know I am always reading through threads, but rarely post, and never get into these arguments but this one hit the spot. I was an altar boy for 4 years in the catholic church and belonged to a non-denominational church for awhile. I agree with alot of your argument, just leave out the part of most christians. Remember there are alot of guys on here with very high testosterone and very intelligent, calling them stupid will always get a reaction.
Oh yeah my hero is my Grandpa. He joined the Army during WWII to be able to become a citizen of the U.S so he would be able to provide a better life for his family. A bronze star and two purple hearts later, both for being shot, he finally made it back to the U.S to live out his dream in the U.S.

[Nikhil Rao]

Hey folks this was a thread about our personal heros, therefore we don't have to agree with each other. We all have our rights to believe what we want, lets not trample each others beliefs lets just respect them.

Respect being the key word there.

I actually consider Jesus and Buddha to be my two most important influences. I don't consider them heroes, because they were both kinda above that level of classificiation if you know what I mean.

[Paul_Koskinen]

I find it ironic how western nations talk about how screwed up the middle east is when they themselves can't even come to terms in an internet forum.
If you're critical of others beliefs it's more an indication of how uncertain you are of your own.

[Paul Neuhaus]

WOW! Of all the debates I've seen on this forum, I never thought I'd read a thread where people are debating on the exhistence of God. Reading through this thread, I've seen some biased and offensive statements coming from both sides.

I think you all know who my hero is. I pray to him every day, sometimes 3 or 4 times a day.

For those of you who don't believe in him, that's ok. I respect you and place no judgement on your character at all. God will judge me with the full measure that I judge others, and he will also forgive me with the full measure that I forgive others. I'm not saying I'm perfect, because sometimes I do slip up. But, I'm doing my best. God bless all you believers and non-believers.

[Jay O'Neill]

I swear We can get an arguement going with the simplist of threads...
The Point of this thread is WHO IS YOUR HERO? We are not questioning the existance of your hero... Just WHO THEY MAY BE.
If The Incredible Frickin Hulk is your Hero... SO be it.

[Paul Neuhaus]

I swear We can get an arguement going with the simplist of threads...
The Point of this thread is WHO IS YOUR HERO? We are not questioning the existance of your hero... Just WHO THEY MAY BE.
If The Incredible Frickin Hulk is your Hero... SO be it.
God bless you too, Jay! :N:

[Corey DuCharme]

God bless you too, Jay! :N:

Hey everybody, it's Tiny Tim Neuhaus!!! :B: :YR: Paul!

Brouse, what the heck does the "H" stand for anyway, I can't find it anywhere in the Bible??

Jay Lyttle, I don't believe in you. I've never seen any documentation proving your existence, you don't even have a pic in your avatar!! You're probably just a computer virus found in every message board placed by the evil heathen left wing solely in existence to denounce Jesus!!! :N:

Just messin everybody..................that's how silly this has become.

[Brandon Clements "BC"]

My mom is my hero, she was able to beat breast cancer twice. And of course God because through him all things are possible.

[Matt Schumann]

these are people i have alot of respect for and find motivation....

Pat Tilman, ABSOLUTELY SELFLESS, TRUE AMERICAN

Kevin Nee, SOMEONE WHO COMES FROM THE SAME AREA I DO, COMPETED IN SOME OF THE SAME CONTEST I HAVE AND HAS MADE IT TO WSM

Brad Cardoza, Basically Brad is where i want to be with strongman...

Randy Coture (ALWAYS LIKED HIM BUT AFTER HIS LAST FIGHT I HAVE A GREAT RESPECT FOR HIM AND REALLY FIND MOTIVATION)

Lyndon Byers (LB), Basically this dude use to be a Boston Bruin (back when they were good) he's known for being a tuff sob, he is now a co-host on the radio show i listen to in the morning, the reason why i mention him is because a while back Gene Simmons was on their radio show, being a total pompus ass, LB said to him "maybe you have more money than me and you can probaly get more women than me but i bet i can kick your ass! " I just thought that was awesome basically he threatend him....

cant really think of anyone else off the top of my head

[Jay O'Neill]

God bless you too, Jay! :N:

God Bless You as well my Friend! :)

I totally Agree with teh Pat Tillman one as well... Now that was a HEro!!!

[Jake Peeterse]

I'd have to say my Dad. He persivered through tons of pain and when asked about it said pain doesn't hurt if you don't think about it. He did also give 28 yrs of this life to the United States Army...the sweetest smelling Army in the world! No really my Dad is the man!

[james rude]

Mac
Not polite to call people stupid because of YOUR beliefs. For every document that proves the existence of Jesus (which during that time was a popular name), someone could provide an equal amount of evidence proving the contrary. So don't knock people because they don't believe as you do.

some people also argue that there is historical eveidence that the holocaust never happened. I did not say that he was God. i did not say that he was the savior. i did not say that i am a christian. the roman government kept detailed records, and they recorded the execution of Jesus of nazareth. metaphysics and dogma aside, he was a teacher of non violence and love for each other, and of how to live in peace. I do not need to be a christian to respect his teachings. i think of ghandi the same way, but his focus was a little different.

this is not meant to be offensive to you or anyone else, but i would be interested to see that evidence which proves the contrary.

p.s. if you don't believe that the holocaust happened, you are stupid and i don't care if you are offended.

[Scott Tully]

My hero is my Grandpa Tully, He passed about 13 years ago, and was a inspriation to me in every sense. He earned a college degree when most did not get high school eduacations, tought school, farmed, coached and was a father and husband all at the same time. He also was very involved in athletics and loved to talk about boxing with me when I was a kid. He farmed until his late 80's and told me that work kept him young.

ST

[Mac Smith]

Look everyone who got bent out of shape because of my posts: I was replying to a post in which James called everyone who didn't believe that Jesus existed was stupid. I wasn't debating whether the man (or entity) existed. This has nothing to do with being left, center, or right leaning. I was just mentioning the fact that it is not necessary to condemn someone for beliefs that differ from yours. By the way, I guess I am considered agnostic because I believe that the existance of God (any god) is unknowable, IMO (again just my opinion it is impossible to prove the existance of God). I do believe in a higher power but I don't believe in any organized religion. Remember I am the son of a preacher man. But I consider myself very logical and highly educated and I cannot bring myself to fully believe in anything that I cannot justify with my senses or science. Plus I like to piss people off in a very articulate manner!!! LOL!!!

I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever diety or higher power (rather real or not). But I've found that if someone doesn't believe in the Christian God on this forum or any other than they are condemned. Everyone has the right to believe as such and no one has the right to call someone stupid because their view differs from the majority.

The purpose of this thread was to state who your heroe is. If God, Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Shiva (Nick did I spell that right?), Buddha, Lucifer, or some superheroe is your heroe so be it!! Just don't condemn someone who doesn't agree with your idea of your higher power. I appreciate Paul's post, as he doesn't force or belittle people for their beliefs, just strong in his. That I can respect.

As far as your evidence James Rude check your PM's. I will not debate the existance of any deity on this thread. But I can provide evidence for both sides.

Remember this forum is for differences of opinion, none of whom is right or wrong. And I come from a different background as 99% of the people on this forum. But isn't it funny how no one gets bent out of shape because non-believers are being called stupid or I was considered ugly because of my so-called "uber-liberal" beliefs (I know it was done in jest Chris, just trying to make a point), it's just when someone deviates from the norm that they are condemned.

[Matt Meinrod]

Look everyone who got bent out of shape because of my posts: I was replying to a post in which James called everyone who didn't believe that Jesus existed was stupid. I wasn't debating whether the man (or entity) existed. This has nothing to do with being left, center, or right leaning. I was just mentioning the fact that it is not necessary to condemn someone for beliefs that differ from yours. By the way, I guess I am considered agnostic because I believe that the existance of God (any god) is unknowable, IMO (again just my opinion it is impossible to prove the existance of God). I do believe in a higher power but I don't believe in any organized religion. Remember I am the son of a preacher man. But I consider myself very logical and highly educated and I cannot bring myself to fully believe in anything that I cannot justify with my senses or science. Plus I like to piss people off in a very articulate manner!!! LOL!!!

I respect everyone's right to believe in whatever diety or higher power (rather real or not). But I've found that if someone doesn't believe in the Christian God on this forum or any other than they are condemned. Everyone has the right to believe as such and no one has the right to call someone stupid because their view differs from the majority.

The purpose of this thread was to state who your heroe is. If God, Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Shiva (Nick did I spell that right?), Buddha, Lucifer, or some superheroe is your heroe so be it!! Just don't condemn someone who doesn't agree with your idea of your higher power. I appreciate Paul's post, as he doesn't force or belittle people for their beliefs, just strong in his. That I can respect.

As far as your evidence James Rude check your PM's. I will not debate the existance of any deity on this thread. But I can provide evidence for both sides.

Mac you just summed up exactly how I feel as well. Thanks for saving me the time to post my sentiments.

As far as my hero's:

1. My dad - raised 5 kids from the time he was 18 - took care of all of us always putting family before himself - all the while being a great dad and someone I could go to anytime day or night for help and advice.

2. My mom - putting up with me even to this day is no easy task.

3. Dorian Yates - he was my inspiration as a teenager and responsible for a good amount of the work ethic and training principles I implement today.

4. From my football days at FSU - it was Anquan Boldin. He's the only guy I know who had the total package as an athlete - brains, athleticism, work ethic, disicipline, strength, big heart, desire, etc...he'll be in the NFL Hall of Fame one day...I look up to him even to this day.

[Ed Eliason]

Mangoo the Magnificent is my hero :D :D :D

[Nikhil Rao]

Well said Mac, very well said.

The most important people in my life have been people with very strong faith, be they Hindu or Christian, despite my agnosticism/nontheism (I refuse to believe in god and refuse NOT to believe in god at the same time if it makes any sense). Although they are concerned with the state of my soul (lol), they never judge me as less than them because of my lack of faith.

I am not directing this at anyone in particular but just a generalized rant from someone who has spent most of his life in the bible belt and on balance prefers it to the northeast and europe.

Back in HS I used to say that just because I'm going to hell and you're not doesn't make you better than me. I meant it then and I mean it now. I don't believe that you can judge a person's character on their belief system no matter how deep said fth runs. I do not believe morality has anything to do with who you pray to, how you pray, or even if you do it at all.

But I see many make this misattribution fallacy both in my religion and in christianity. The Vaishnavas and other sects in Hinduism won't quite come out and say it but will definitely intimate that by virtue of belonging to said sect, they are in some way morally superior to other Hindus. And I see Christians doing it to.

It can be as simple as saying 'What some people don't get about Christians' or 'the way Christians see it' or anything like that, implying and 'us vs them'. I've seen it with regard to all sorts of moral issues, from drinking to pornography to charity.

Understand this, Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. There are bad Christians, there are good heathens. Just because your faith in Jesus Christ compels you to shun certain activities and partake in others does not in any way shape or form mean that you are the only ones who try to be better people.

Yet on more occasions than I can count, people have told me that I 'wouldn't understand' the pursuit of moral perfection because I'm not Christian. Which troubles and upsets me.

We have a saying in Hinduism, that the soul is the thing. Everything else is just trappings. And in that we include belief, faith, prayer, and philosophy. I tell my friends that you don't have to belong to my religion to be a 'Good Hindu'. Because you don't. Under our conception, God doesn't care about our relationship with him, he cares about our relationship with the rest of the world.

The way I see it, it's rather similar to showing your love for your parents. I can't remember the last time I said 'I love you' to my parents, can't remember the last time I bought them any kind of greeting card or any kind of gift. I prefer to make my love for them shown by making good with my life, striving to be the best man I can be, making sure they know that my successes are theirs and my failures are my own, and using to the fullest every gift they've given me.

Which is why I consider Jesus one of my most important moral teachers. Not because of anything he 'said' about the path to salvation, but on how he told people to live. Throwing the money lenders out of temple, lecturing the Pharisees on their lawyering, clothing beggars, and seeing people for who they were not what they were described as *cough* Mary Magdalene *cough*

In fact there is more than a little evidence that Jesus never said 'through me is the path to salvation'. There is plenty of evidence both direct and indirect to show that what he said was in fact 'what I say, what I do, this is the path to heaven'. Meaning love your neighbor and live as purely as possible.

I do not bow my head in prayer to any God. And would not even if he appeared in front of me and proved he was in fact god. If that's the price of salvation, then it's just plain too high. A god who would judge me on anything but my character is not a god I wish to follow. I simply wake up every day and try to be a better man than I was the day before. And that is the only thing I judge others on, regardless of what motivates them to do so.

[Brian Brouwer]

Tyler man, you opened up a can of worms!

However, I must also firmly state that Jesus is my role modle and although not always noticable threw my actions, is my dominating focus in life. He is God in the flesh, the ultimate sacrafice for our sins, and the only way to eternal life. Therefore, my absolute "hero". BTW, for anyone who prayed for me and my open tibia fracture that happened 4 weeks ago, thanks. Cast came off today, and putting weight on leg. Doc said for a compound fracture of this nature is rare to be out of a cast and walking/rehab in 4 weeks. Glory be to my hero!

[Tyler MacCallum]

Wow, I didn't expect such a discussion but am intreged by everyone's thoughts. Brian, keep up the speedy recovery.

[Eric Jett]

We can go on for years about religion and such, but I like part of what Nik said, it being about your relationships with the world and (here's where I add in my own beliefs) God. I do not judge someone because they are not Christian. I like Nik just fine and he is not Christian. I love the guys on my football team, although they are not all Christian.

ANYWAYS...

Heroes...I'd go with the obvious, and a few other people as well. My parents, always there for me and with me. My first strength coach, Coach Hornbeck. Not only did he teach me how to lift and about the different parts of health and the body, but he taught me and the rest of the class how to be better men. Every Friday, he would dismiss us and say "Have a good weekend, no number one signs (flipping off), and most importantly...love your parents." I think I learned more in his class than I did in every other class in high school.
Other heroes...I can't think of any more.

[Lacy]

My husband would be my main hero.
Other than that calamity Jane comes to mind

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

Nik, you do know that there is nothing in the Bible to say Mary Magdalene was a prostitute/woman of the night etc?

I find it hard to believe how anyone could not bow their head before God if they stood before Him. We're talking about the creator of the universe here, not an idol. Most of us would almost bow before a top strongman, nevermind the Eternal.

[Nikhil Rao]

Nik, you do know that there is nothing in the Bible to say Mary Magdalene was a prostitute/woman of the night etc?

Yeah I know that. Just a convenient example


I find it hard to believe how anyone could not bow their head before God if they stood before Him. We're talking about the creator of the universe here, not an idol. Most of us would almost bow before a top strongman, nevermind the Eternal.

lets just put it this way. If I met the creator face to face, I'd put my faith in the fact that He'd choose to judge me not on what I did at that meeting, but what I did in the world before and what I did in the world after.

I didn't mean to totally take this thread off track, just saw a soapbox waiting and had to get on it.

Jono and anyone else feel free to PM or IM me if you want to keep discussing.

[Jay O'Neill]

Well said Mac, very well said.

The most important people in my life have been people with very strong faith, be they Hindu or Christian, despite my agnosticism/nontheism (I refuse to believe in god and refuse NOT to believe in god at the same time if it makes any sense). Although they are concerned with the state of my soul (lol), they never judge me as less than them because of my lack of faith.

I am not directing this at anyone in particular but just a generalized rant from someone who has spent most of his life in the bible belt and on balance prefers it to the northeast and europe.

Back in HS I used to say that just because I'm going to hell and you're not doesn't make you better than me. I meant it then and I mean it now. I don't believe that you can judge a person's character on their belief system no matter how deep said fth runs. I do not believe morality has anything to do with who you pray to, how you pray, or even if you do it at all.

But I see many make this misattribution fallacy both in my religion and in christianity. The Vaishnavas and other sects in Hinduism won't quite come out and say it but will definitely intimate that by virtue of belonging to said sect, they are in some way morally superior to other Hindus. And I see Christians doing it to.

It can be as simple as saying 'What some people don't get about Christians' or 'the way Christians see it' or anything like that, implying and 'us vs them'. I've seen it with regard to all sorts of moral issues, from drinking to pornography to charity.

Understand this, Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. There are bad Christians, there are good heathens. Just because your faith in Jesus Christ compels you to shun certain activities and partake in others does not in any way shape or form mean that you are the only ones who try to be better people.

Yet on more occasions than I can count, people have told me that I 'wouldn't understand' the pursuit of moral perfection because I'm not Christian. Which troubles and upsets me.

We have a saying in Hinduism, that the soul is the thing. Everything else is just trappings. And in that we include belief, faith, prayer, and philosophy. I tell my friends that you don't have to belong to my religion to be a 'Good Hindu'. Because you don't. Under our conception, God doesn't care about our relationship with him, he cares about our relationship with the rest of the world.

The way I see it, it's rather similar to showing your love for your parents. I can't remember the last time I said 'I love you' to my parents, can't remember the last time I bought them any kind of greeting card or any kind of gift. I prefer to make my love for them shown by making good with my life, striving to be the best man I can be, making sure they know that my successes are theirs and my failures are my own, and using to the fullest every gift they've given me.

Which is why I consider Jesus one of my most important moral teachers. Not because of anything he 'said' about the path to salvation, but on how he told people to live. Throwing the money lenders out of temple, lecturing the Pharisees on their lawyering, clothing beggars, and seeing people for who they were not what they were described as *cough* Mary Magdalene *cough*

In fact there is more than a little evidence that Jesus never said 'through me is the path to salvation'. There is plenty of evidence both direct and indirect to show that what he said was in fact 'what I say, what I do, this is the path to heaven'. Meaning love your neighbor and live as purely as possible.

I do not bow my head in prayer to any God. And would not even if he appeared in front of me and proved he was in fact god. If that's the price of salvation, then it's just plain too high. A god who would judge me on anything but my character is not a god I wish to follow. I simply wake up every day and try to be a better man than I was the day before. And that is the only thing I judge others on, regardless of what motivates them to do so.

Give me the number of your chief resident! You have WAY TOOO much time on your hands!

[Nikhil Rao]

2nd year student jay! no rotations yet. Just class. Boring sucky class.

Also, that took very little time to write, like less than 10 minutes

[Lance Betts]

[QUOTE=Nikhil Rao]
Your assumption that non-christian = left is something I find extremely insulting, being a non-christian that has probably been more vocal and had more exposure as a non-lefty than you have.

Nik,

With all do respect. NO WHERE in my reply did I state that non-christian=left! Sorry you misinterpeted anything I was stating with that last comment!

Whats with the statement "more exposure as a non-lefty than you have" quote?
Do you even know me? NO! Thus, that statement is irrelevant.

Listen, I will say it again for everyone who evidentally did not read every part of my reply to Mac. "I respect every individuals own religious and even political beliefs" As a christian it would be hypocritical for me to state or believe that I am better than anyone due to my beliefs! I am not going to quote scripture and make this more than what it was. However, I will say Yes, I know I'm a sinner! I've never been perfect! Thus, l try to follow the statement Jesus makes when he says; "Do not judge others, for god alone will judge all". I believe it's not my place to try and judge others just because they don't believe the same as I.

So your a libertarian. That's great! I have friends who are so as well. Guess, what? I have family and friends whom are of MANY different religions, races, political parties, etc...
I think you get my point. DO NOT read to much into my last quote.

Maybe I should have explained why I stated it like that! I think that when someone "calls out" or lectures someone they should remember that, it always takes two to tango! Thus, don't belittle one person with out belittling the initial perpetrator that initiated the insults! No matter what their religious beliefs are! My interpretation of what Mac wrote was that he lectured one guy, but not the instigator. Simply that, nothing more!

I respect Mac for his insight and knowledge in many areas. I just did not agree with how he interjected in on this particular incident.

Sorry Mac, and all others that misinterpeted what I was getting at! I enjoy this forum and for didn't intend on this being a major issue. So let's get back to talking about training, competitions, and other what not!

[Nikhil Rao]

Lance my apologies for the misinterpretation. Just the sense I got. And because I could feel Mac's frustration since I think he and I are very much on the same page with religion. I do realize that there were some disparaging remarks made about christians/christianity that started the whole thing off, but didn't Christ himself say to turn the other cheek? One person's disrespectful attitude to your religion did not necessitate the painting with such broad brush strokes that got Mac (and myself) upset.

By the way in no way shape or form was that gigantic novel of a post I wrote later related to anything you said. That was just something that's been rolling around in my head for the past few years.

[Jared Enderton]

nikhil, I came to the conclusion that you are onnne smart dude haha... you use many words and I have NO clue what they even mean haha.. you come off as VERY smart, and you probably are...but anyway.. I have many heroes.. but one of them definately has to be my Weightlifting Coach...he inspires me and is one of the only people who really believes I can do what I want... so... I guess when you have someone believe in you its easy to look up to them.. also some girl that none of you all know...not my girlfriend either, just a friend... she's the hardest working person, girl or guy, I've ever met... she's a great role model to all.

[Mike Landrich]

My three heroes (you'll see a pattern here)

1. My uncle William, died in Begium in Nov 1944.

2. My father, earned a Bronze Star fighting in Germany in 1945

3. My step-father, who survived 18 months as a POW in a German Stalag.



They fought, suffered and died so we have the ability to have discussions such as this.

[Lance Betts]

Thanks Nik!

You seem very intelligent and well informed for such a younger man! No dispect due to age intended! I didn't mean to use such "broad strokes", it just came off that way.

Anyway, I really don't believe in hero's per say. However, I do admire or respect the attributes and works of many people of this earth.

1.) My wife and soulmate
2.) My former pastor Wayne Stout
3.) My grandmother who helped raise me.
4.) Arnold Schwartznegger (for what he has accomplished with "the american dream" philosophy) Sounds cheezy, I know!
5.) All peoples who strive for love, peace, knowledge, strength, and inner growth!

[Mac Smith]

[QUOTE=Nikhil Rao]
Your assumption that non-christian = left is something I find extremely insulting, being a non-christian that has probably been more vocal and had more exposure as a non-lefty than you have.



Sorry Mac, and all others that misinterpeted what I was getting at! I enjoy this forum and for didn't intend on this being a major issue. So let's get back to talking about training, competitions, and other what not!

No need to apologize brotha. I respect your opinion! The reason I didn't mention the original antagonist was because he basically recantted his statement after he made it.


AFter reading Mike Landrich post I forgot to mention my Grandfather as one of my heroes. He fought in WWII and was a member of the all black tank battalion that was one of the first units to enter Paris during it's liberation. It amazed me that he was willing to fight for the freedom of others while fighting for a country that didn't offer him the same in return. Talk about selfless!!!!!

[Jay Hagadorn]

Out of Websters:

Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Everyone has a "god" that they worship. For out of the abundance of your heart your mouth will speak. What do you spend most of your time speaking about? Is it cars, girls, working out, school, work, etc... This is your God...

I know the one true living God. That may freak some of you out...but that's O.K. You are going to chose to seek the truth, or seek to fit into groups. Be careful what authority you base your opinion on. Make sure it's not just an opinion (because everyone has one of those like a belly button and they all look a little different) but base it on an ultimate authority.

I have a joy and a peace that surpasses all understanding, and for that I thank my "hero" Jesus Christ.

It amazes me how badly people can freak out when the name of Jesus comes up.There's power behind the Name.

[Paul_Koskinen]

If I had to choose a "hero" it would probably be your everyday person. The same person who goes to work everyday to provide for their family. Someone who tries to pass along good values to their children and are always willing to help a neighbour. They take pride in whatever they do.
It's the kind of person who never receives glory or awards for their efforts & only family members know about all the hard work and sacrifice. The very same person who makes up a majority of our country yet is taken for granted by most.
It's one thing to channel your energies in an effort to seek glory, it's quite another to channel your energies to do what's right.

[Jonathan Macfarlane]

Out of Websters:

Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Everyone has a "god" that they worship. For out of the abundance of your heart your mouth will speak. What do you spend most of your time speaking about? Is it cars, girls, working out, school, work, etc... This is your God...

I know the one true living God. That may freak some of you out...but that's O.K. You are going to chose to seek the truth, or seek to fit into groups. Be careful what authority you base your opinion on. Make sure it's not just an opinion (because everyone has one of those and they all look a little different) but base it on an ultimate authority.

I have a joy and a peace that surpasses all understanding, and for that I thank my "hero" Jesus Christ.

It amazes me how badly people can freak out when the name of Jesus comes up.There's power behind the Name.



He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:8-11

Amen brother Jay

[Kÿle Vezeau]

This one is for Mac.


“Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans. I’m one of the few people that believe it was the blacks.” Sarah Silverman :D

[Scott Markowitz]

No offense to Pat Tillman, because I think he is definitely a hero. However, I don't think he's any more of a hero than the thousands of others who did the same thing he did. Just because they didn't leave behind a pile of money does not render their sacrifice any less important. [/soapbox]

[Eric Jett]

No offense to Pat Tillman, because I think he is definitely a hero. However, I don't think he's any more of a hero than the thousands of others who did the same thing he did. Just because they didn't leave behind a pile of money does not render their sacrifice any less important. [/soapbox]

I agree with you. Now, some people may think this is silly, but I had a teacher one time say this: anyone who signs up for the military has just died. They have just said that they are willing to die for you and I, and so they have given their life.

[Mac Smith]

Damn yet another thing white people blame us for!!!!! :M: :T:


This one is for Mac.


“Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans. I’m one of the few people that believe it was the blacks.” Sarah Silverman :D