IFSA or not?

[Peter Rundberg]

Hi all,

I saw that Jesse took second at the Super-Series in Venice Beach (btw congratulations, good job). It just dawned on me that this was one of the qualifying competitions for the WSM. What are your opinions here in the forum on the current feud between IFSA and the current World’s Strongest Man Super Series as arranged by WCE and TWI?

In Sweden we are banned from IFSA if we enter one of the "other" competitions. As there will be a WSM qualifyer here in Sweden it is sort of sad that entering that will automatically ban you from any IFSA sponsored competition. This matters because the national championships in Sweden are an IFSA sponsored event.

I really feel it is sad and not at all beneficial to the sport that this feud exists between the different federations. Any thoughts?

Best regards,

Peter Rundberg

[Jacob Sauter]

I dont compete(yet) but its pretty lame IMO. People should be allowed to compete in what they want.. and is selfish of the IFSA to do what they're doing.

[Jesse Marunde]

I don't want to state publically all of my feelings on the matter. But I will say this, 5 different ESPN TV shows is too much to pass up with what little pursuation IFSA has offered me.

I beleive that IFSA should let it's athletes compete in the Super Series. Why not? It's just more exposure for their athletes.

Jesse

[ScottDowney]

I believe the same as you Jesse.

All the new federations at the moment are opperating a "free to compete" policy with the Super Series and Strongman Cup open to trading athletes. This kind of policy is going to benefit the athletes and the fans whereas IFSA's closed book policy is going to benefit no-one but IFSA.

The new federations are trying to move the sport forward and those who know the sport inside can see that it is starting to progress and move forward at an alarming rate and the only people who are holding it back are IFSA (I hope you guys dont mind this, edit as you see fit)

A lot of people are complaining that there will now be 3x world titles up for grabs from the 3 federations and now there are 3 uk based titles also, but if IFSA would allow there athletes to compete elsewhere and become open to other federations, the world could soon have a tri-federational world championship with the best 10 guys from federation competing in one big competition.

I respect anybody and everybody that competes, but IFSA as "The world governing body" need to open there eyes a little!

[D.Norris]

No comment as this board cannot take the amount of anger and the use of bad language I have for the federation above!

[ScottDowney]

oooohhhhhh Im not feeling the love in here today!!

[lhprop1]

The last thing I want to see is to have strongman end up like the labyrinth of federations like powerlifting currently has.

To give a parallel, in rugby, the world governing body is the IRB (Int'l Rugby Board) and each nation must abide by the records, scheduling of international matches, and laws of the IRB, but each nation is free to conduct itself how it sees fit within those regulations. There are regularly scheduled international matches, an official World Cup, and a structured, proven method of determining rankings.

A multitude of federations will not do anything to further the sport if there is not a strong, unified governing body for all of them to determine inter-federation championships and rankings. (Jeez, I feel like Publius.)

[ScottDowney]

Thats my point, TWI and the World Strongman Cup are pretty much unified as in they share athletes or at the very least are open to share athletes whereas IFSA (The so-called World Governing Body for the sport of strongman) will not partake in any cross federational exchanges.

If they did, it would be huge!

[Clint Darden]

I don't want to state publically all of my feelings on the matter. But I will say this, 5 different ESPN TV shows is too much to pass up with what little pursuation IFSA has offered me.

I beleive that IFSA should let it's athletes compete in the Super Series. Why not? It's just more exposure for their athletes.

Jesse

Ditto....

You know my feelings as well.

Clint

[Patrick McGuffin]

I am beyond words , i dont even know anything about the different federations and was not even planning on joining this conversation until i was on ironmind.com and read on of thier news articles and found out that IFSA was going to standardise strongman events!!! What the hell are they thinking!!!!!!???? To standardize strongman events would be a travesty!! That would destroy one of the best aspects of strongman, which happens to be the variety of the events in which the promoter has the choice of choosing from. But in thier new system the would have the same events for every contest, how lame is that!! They are blind if they dont see that to do so would be ripping the soul strait out of strongman. Not to mention how boring it would end up being, one of the main exitements of strongman is finding new ways to test yourself and have fun at the same time. They say they are going to "captivate the audience" by making thier equipment shiny for a show, hahahaha!!!! give me a break. The things that capture the most attention are things that the audience has not seen verry often. Unless of course the audience is consisting mainly of crows or something, then shiny will do. That and the whole thing about not being able too enter contests outside of the federation is also a load of crap. If they have thier way strongman will end up another lifeless sport driven by money. ( i love being able too speak my mind, without having to worry about what others think)( i do understand though that they will probably be using old favorites, but that cant be all) :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Clint Darden]

Never forget...

The rules can and will be broken if the people in charge wish to break them.

Clint

[Patrick McGuffin]

like when they figure out that shiny does not always equal better :D

[Brad Provick]

Where does it say that they will only use the standerdized events? My understanding was that some of those events would be thrown into every contest. I like the idea, you can guage yourself against lifters from anywere in the world, like with IWF or the IPF. Stongmen shouldn't be circus monkys doing crazy events "because the crowd wants to see it".... thats just entertainment.

To me SM is a sport.



..

[Jesse Marunde]

If there are no fans there is no sport. the people sitting in the stands and watching on TV must be entertained. But you can entertain and still have legit performances and strict judging. for example, the deadlift, while a great test of strength, often takes too long to keep the crowd entertained when the contest has more than 20 competitors. The deadlift is best saved for contests with 8 or so athletes IMO. It's better to do events like tire flipping that are big, visual, make alot of noise, athletes can go head to head and it's easy to move around and set up.

Jesse

[Jamie T]

Jesse

The politics of the sport is the shits!!!!! You hit one of the problems right on the head.. There is always a fine line between keeping the crowd impressed and "true tests of strength".. the problem is the general crowd has no comprehension of the difference between a 600 lb DL or an 800 lb DL.. theye simply see a big bar and go "ohhh"..thats why you have to depend on visually impressive events: truck pulls..car flips etc..with no crowds there are no contests and then no sport: and at that point all we are is a bunch of overgrown dudes with a bunch of useless heavy shit in our yards..

J

[Rob Okey]

I think by standardization they mean the equipment itself, not dictating which events you have to have in a competition.

They have a couple of "official IFSA" equipment plans posted on their website. Oh, and I believe that IFSA also sell this new standard equipment. Next we'll probably have an announcement that all IFSA sanctioned contests must use the new polished steel IFSA logo equipment. Surprise...

I'd rather see something interesting being carried like the railway section carry or timber frame carry than some polished steel cylinders with a big lazer-cut IFSA logo on each end.
Oh and the plans for the new shield walk implement are just sad. The Husafel stone carry is a tradition, an honourable test of strength, it shouldn't be reduced to a large steel IFSA logo. Even with steel shields it can be interesting, making a logo is going too far.
This really is sad. I'm not anti-IFSA, just anti-stupid stuff and lots of stupid stuff seems to be coming from them lately.

[J. Alexander]

If there are no fans there is no sport. the people sitting in the stands and watching on TV must be entertained. But you can entertain and still have legit performances and strict judging. for example, the deadlift, while a great test of strength, often takes too long to keep the crowd entertained when the contest has more than 20 competitors. The deadlift is best saved for contests with 8 or so athletes IMO. It's better to do events like tire flipping that are big, visual, make alot of noise, athletes can go head to head and it's easy to move around and set up.

Jesse

I agree with you here. The crowd has to be entertained. All of us here could appreciate a deadlift event, but the average joe in the crowd see's it as just picking up a bar. But, everyone can appreciate picking up a car for a deadlift event, or pressing a log that is made out of a tree trunk. Visually, everyone can appreciate that, and the more that do, the more people that will come to watch. If no one comes to watch, the sport will go away.

Having head to head events is also probably the best way to get a crowd pleaser. Even a simple BB deadlift for reps is far more exciting when there are two competitors pulling at the same time.

Just my .02,

[lhprop1]

the problem is the general crowd has no comprehension of the difference between a 600 lb DL or an 800 lb DL..

This is exactly why the standardized equipment is not such a hot idea. Sure, it gives them an easier way to assess competitors against the others who have not actually gone head to head, but the crowd could care less. That's why they don't show the IPF meets on ESPN, it's just big guys picking up a bar.

Instead of seeing a guy pick up a shiny doohickey and thinking, "600 lbs, hrmmmm. That's pretty heavy" the average guy will see a guy dragging a rusty old anchor chain and think "HOLY SHIT THAT'S AWESOME!" regardless of the weight.

[Patrick McGuffin]

either way i think what they are doing is stupid, and if they are not careful thier contests will end up being only about selling a product, then we will have all kinds of stupid problems in it just like baseball has in all its controversy, i agree with rob in that whole hussafel stone thing. what a waste of tradition.

[Brad Provick]

There are all kinds of fans.... there is clueless gawkers (agreed, the majority) and there are knowledgable fans who know what heavy is. There are more of these fans than you may think. I talk to them all the time.

Deadlift vs. anchor chain? no comparison. I've had scores of people congratulate me on a deadlift I did on TV last year, eventhough I didn't WIN the event. It was a weight far ahead of the rest and only one other guy could do. I won the medley at the same contest and not a single person has mentioned it..... because almost everyone else completed it too. You can or you can't events really stand out in the crowds mind in my experience.

Medleys, largely, are not going to show that one person is that much better than the others. Most are contested by the clock and some only vary winner-10th place by as little as 20 sec.... not real impressive. (Unless one competitor completly blows away the field ala Jesse in WSC, which happens very rarely.)

Back to standardization, I've had a few emails and questions from people about what the world record is in things like the farmers walk, yoke and log. I can only answer one of these questions accurately.... Think how exiting it would be for the crowd if the announcer knew the national and world records in a standardized event and was telling them how far the competitor had to go to get close to the record. The events mean more than winning that day.

People still file into international track and field meets (not like ML sports, but way more than strongman) to watch the decathalon. Its been the same for a hell of a long time!! They hold my intrest................



:IMHO:


..

[Vlad Redkin]

From IFSA federation day: :BB:
• Available for purchase (USD 26,000 without deadlift and USD 34,000 with deadlift), or
for rental (USD 700-2,500 per week). Manufacturing cost in excess of USD 40,000, so
these are subsidised rates available only for national federations and not for resale.
• Content:
– (a) 1 log for log-lift
– (b) 1 IFSA shield
– (c) 4 farmers walk / yoke cylinders with 180kg of additional weights
– (d) 2 yoke attachments
– (e) 1 stone circle ring
– (f) stainless steel start/finish posts and distance markers
– (g) 6 stones 120kg-180kg
– (h) optional deadlift

[ScottDowney]

Hey Vlad welcome onboard my friend, its been a long time!!

Thats a lot of money for equipment with the IFSA logo on it IMO, Id rather build my own stuff and paint it up...sure it looks tatty, but I built it and didnt pay the earth for it.

IFSA have put a lot of money (The Dubai Consortiums money actually) into making this equipment and according to IFSA themselves its supposed to be the highest quality, safest and precision cut and calibrated equipment...which I was told the yoke had to be removed out of safety issues!! Dont know how true this is though.

Now myself, I dont look at a competition and think "Wow.....big shiny circle walk thingy" I think about the weight that is in the big shiny circle walk thingy.

Id rather make a deadlift bar with engine blocks welded to the ends of the bar and plate loded on the top....the crowd could relate to it well.

I do agree with Brad Provick with the idea that if there were widely known records for all events, both national and world record that would be great because you could have a normal event like the farmers walk and any given athlete could break a national or world record during that performance!

[Vlad Redkin]

Hi Scott my friend! Yes, its been a long time!! :I:
You now, I am ANTI IFSA! IFSA politics is the shit! For example:
National Federation Do’s and Don’ts
Do’s
•Talk with non-IFSA federations/athletes to
convince them to join forces under IFSA
rules
•Talk with good athletes from other
strength sports to try out in Strongman
competitions
•Talk with other IFSA NF to plan joint
events or series (Cekol Cup?)
•Look for promoters of international events
and ask IFSA to help arrange competitions
•Disqualify and suspend any athlete that
breaks IFSA rules or help to undermine
IFSA rules (in particular those competing
in non authorized events)
Don’ts
•Sanction or collaborate in organizing any
international event not expressly
authorised by IFSA (WSMSS, USS, WSC...
But also own events not authorized by
IFSA)
•Allow any National or Elite Athlete to
participate in a non-sanctioned event, and
particularly in those where suspended
athletes take part (WSMSS)
About the standardized equipment I think for log lift, farmer, deadlift is not bad. Very good for fix records.
We have great classical events- tire flips, hercules hold, conan weel, truck pulling and etc.. They cannot and not be standardized probably. It gives our sports popularity and love of spectators.

[Jesse Marunde]

Brad, I totally disagree with you bro, but well stated and I admit that you do have a point!

Jesse

[Patrick McGuffin]

i like the thought of records but it is not fair to just throw away all the events they dont want, every event brings something unique to the field and should be a consideration when putting on any show.

HAHAHAHAHAHA i feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to pay that much for strongman equipment, i can get everythong there for under their rental cost.

thier rules are total bs

Ps. welcome to the board Vlad

[Chuck Marunde]

The development of a sport on a national and interntional level requires many things and many people, but fundamentally, its success will be a function of good leadership. In July of 2002, I wrote the following comments about what it will take to make a successful strongman federation or association.

1. Outstanding event planning and organization, promotion and events that operate smoothly,
2. Helping to promote Strongmen across the country in various media by arranging their appearances, for example at talk shows around the nation,
3. Taking care of our athletes at each event, including all details and costs of their travel, lodging, and meals,
4. Addressing specific needs of our athletes in appropriate ways, always working to promote their best interests,
5. Raising the ante on prize money substantially, which will do more for morale in this sport than anything right now,
6. Including some extraordinary prizes, such as a Harley Davidson or a Hummer, and
7. Setting aside personal interests in leadership and ownership of the federation/association, a corollary of promoting the best interests of strongmen.

and I wrote that there is much more to building a successful organization, including in relevant part:

-A view to each Strongman's success, not only while competing, but beyond that into retirement;
-A role for each active Strongman as an Ambassador of the federation/associaiton (with training and a network of support);
-A role for each retired Strongman as an Ambassador of the federation/associaiton;
-Benefits for Strongmen that are not offered by any other sports promoter or organization;
-A view to involving each Strongman's family in a way that meets their personal interests and fosters an environment of support and encouragement for the Strongman as well as fulfillment for the family members;
-An underlying theme of honesty and integrity in all dealings with Strongmen;
-Creation of a nationwide network of screened experts for Strongmen (trainers, sports physicians, sports psychologists, sports agents, financial planners, etc.); and
-Developing a network of discounted services (beyond direct product sponsorships) and products for Strongmen (equipment, supplies, supplements, etc.).

Foundational to such a powerful organization and the success of each strongman is good leadership. There are many leaders, but not many good leaders. There are some good leaders, but fewer still great leaders. I hope the future of strongman has the promise of great leadership. As we all know, in nearly every sport, the greatest athletes often don't get to the top because their best interests are not promoted.

Charles E. Marunde, Doctor of Jurisprudence
Business Attorney, Rabid Strongman Fan, Amatuer Photog

[Karl Gillingham]

100% Correct! Many of the same things I have tried in vain to communicate. :mag:

[Patrick McGuffin]

yeah too bad they arent meeting alot of those criteria

[Vlad Redkin]

It's ok! But I think for strongman sports and strongmen normal development need international public strongmen federation!