Poundstone Rant

[Derek Poundstone]

What gives, a post about the possability of a SS contest at MSG and there's three pages of posts and a boat load of reads. Al Thompson posts the info about the Team USA vs Team World competion being held in Philly and there is a meager 8 replies and only a hand full of reads and it seems like no interest on this forum!! Also, whats the point of being a US Pro anymore, you get ten times the recognition by just competing in an amature competition! The two America's Strongest Man qualifiers got just about no attention, as apposed to the dozens of amature contest being held with threads upon threads of details about the contest! I found out all about the Amatures in Clovis but had to actually wait and hear from Travis to find out about the Pro's!!! WTF

Rant over!!!

[rickfreitag]

Derek,

You made a great point. It's something to think about for sure.

As evident by the posts, the AM's create their own hype for contests in much detail. That is good for them and for the sport.

I think the pro's are often too humble, or just the opposite, too arrogant to create their own hype. In the case of the humble pro, enough said. In the case of the arrogant pro, I think they may expect others (promoters, media, fans, etc.) to create hype for them, after all they are pro. I think there is something to be said for that. Ultimately, the success of SM depends on a lot of things, and one big factor is HYPE. Hype can start from top down or the bottom up. Either way people need to be talking and writing about the sport and contests in as many formats as possible. For all the fans, enthusiasts, and competitors alike, this a good message Derek has raised. For the sake of the sport, I hope people are listening.

[Scott Markowitz]

What gives, ...

I can't speak for everyone else, but I know I'm interested in both, but not likely to be able to travel to either. That, and I talked to Al about it in chat one night.

Oh...and what Rick said made perfect sense and is absolutely correct. It doesn't matter how great the product is, if nobody knows about it they won't buy. That is the biggest liability of pro strongman, and strongman in general, at this point I think. Everyone I talk to tells me that if there was a contest they could swing logistically that they'd be there in a heartbeat. Even taking into account that some percentage of them are just blowing smoke, there's still a lot of potential spectators that don't make it to stuff (pro or am) because they didn't know about it.

That said, as Rick also pointed out, there is a fine line between being a good self-promoter and being an ass. There's nothing wrong with the first, but too many of the second could kill the sport. Especially when ptos are relatively few and far between, one bad experience with someone might completely turn someone off. That said, I don't recall ever having had one of those experiences.

But yeah, Derek, you have a point.

[Billy Wolt]

What gives, a post about the possability of a SS contest at MSG and there's three pages of posts and a boat load of reads. Al Thompson posts the info about the Team USA vs Team World competion being held in Philly and there is a meager 8 replies and only a hand full of reads and it seems like no interest on this forum!! Also, whats the point of being a US Pro anymore, you get ten times the recognition by just competing in an amature competition! The two America's Strongest Man qualifiers got just about no attention, as apposed to the dozens of amature contest being held with threads upon threads of details about the contest! I found out all about the Amatures in Clovis but had to actually wait and hear from Travis to find out about the Pro's!!! WTF

Rant over!!!


Derek,

I am very interested in checking out the Team contest...it's got the strongest men in the world...BUT,,,,,,,,it's a 3 day event. Philly is a 3 hour drive for me, i'm not driving back and forth 3 times or paying to stay at a hotel. Coming down for 1 days worth of events seems just silly to me. I don't want to see part of a contest, I want to see it from start to finish.

The other problem is the timing of the results...and that goes for any contest (amatuer or pro). I go to the NAS site or AmericanStrongman, and results take several days to appear or sometimes weeks. I know people are busy, but that stuff NEEDS to be updated during, day of or day after. And i mean full results, not just placings...i want to see who did what, as I'm sure others do as well.

[Scott Tully]

Derek,

Alot of Ams get home the night of the show or at the hotel and post a writeup, Higa was the only one to do so befroe Travis did yesterday from Cali, kinda hard to get hyped up about it when we have no idea how or what anyone did, also there is 90 Am contests a year and alot larger percentage of competitors are not pros that use these boards, so your gonna see more info posted, I like to know about both, also alot of pros arent even goign to shows, thers like 40-50 pros and 13 show up to a qualifier, if the numbers were bigger so would the interest and hype. I can pull 40-50 Ams out for a silver show, but I put up 5 grand and get 6 lightweigh and 6 heavyweight pros to our pro am. Its everyones responsibilty, the promotes, organization and the athletes to pump the sport.

Scott Tully

btw i am very excited about Als show and will be there helping.

[Garrick Daft]

Derek, maybe you didn't kick severe enough ass in St. Pats to be heard.

Oh and Jesper, don't let Derek Poundstone compete in your SS shows unless you desire your beloved Mariusz to be wiped all over the place.

Here is more info about Clovis Derek. http://z9.invisionfree.com/Strength_Discussion/index.php?showtopic=5558&st=0&#entry2346460

Just saw this on Ironmind...inspiring.

Inspiration from philosopher-poet and stone lifter Steve "Inver Stone" Jeck,
co-author of Of Stones and Strength
Like a Rolling Stone
Remember Sisyphus and how he was condemned to rolling a boulder to the top of a mountain only to watch it roll back down to the plain, time and again, for all eternity? His punishment was to symbolize our daily struggle in which it appears “our whole being is exerted toward accomplishing nothing.”

Well, Sisyphus learned something that might just help you deal with what appears to be “futile and hopeless labor.”

Each time he walked down the mountain to retrieve his stone, he reflected upon his actions. During what Albert Camus called his “hour of consciousness,” Sisyphus was “superior to his fate” and “stronger than his rock.”

If you’ll take the time to find significance in what you do, you’ll be ready, with Sisyphus, for your next trip to the top of the mountain!

[Derek Poundstone]

Derek, maybe you didn't kick severe enough ass in St. Pats to be heard.

Oh and Jesper, don't let Derek Poundstone compete in your SS shows unless you desire your beloved Mariusz to be wiped all over the place.


Great post Garrick, I guess you can you can speak first hand about my ability since spending a few days "in my life"!!

Everyone else, you all bring up great points!! Freitag, awesome post. My excuse for not posting was that by the time I got back from St. Patts, I had to rest for half a day then off to work! By the time I found enough time to post a write within a few days, I searched the 2 boards I frequent for some sorta write up and was very let down that no one really posted anything in regards to my performance. In my mind I overcame a career ending back injury and dominated the contest, since then I've kinda had a chip on my shoulder. I guess I had too high of expectations, thats my fault.

I think US SM athletes are getting the short end of the stick with the seperation of SS and IFSA. I mean WTF, what legitimacy does any contest I do have if guys like Phister, Marunde, Nee, Pope and others dont show up to the American Contest's. I know it sucks because these shows pay out peanuts compared to the international contests, but I for one DO NOT compete for the money. As a matter of fact, I'm going down to Travis's place next week for his Amature Contest to do an Expo with McClure, Ostlund and new PRo Brugal just because. I'm not asking for an appearence fee and turned down Travis's offer to pay my way because I love this sport!! I've only recently looked for sponsorship because I haven't been able to comprehend someone paying me for doing something I love so dearly. But damn it, the US Pro's need to stick together and do these qualifiers and National level contest's and other appearences to further the sport. It also makes no sense that one American SM cane be titled WSM and a totally differed competition can be titled America's Strongest Man!! This sport has no legitimacy among the average Joe in the US because of this. I for one would compete in any contest that I can fit in my schedule if it wasn't for this seperation. I was an alternate for the SS Show at Mohegan Sun last year but soon found out that by competing in a SS contest, I would not be ale to compete in IFSA. I cant take the chance of qualifying for WSM then not getting the invite like what happened to Gillingham last year. Unless their was more to the story then the obvious, this is what I saw. It killed me not to be able to compete at the show to the point where I didn't even attend the contest when it was a mer 1.5 hour drive from me!! Again, I cant take the risk that I will qualify for a contest then not get the invite to the next. You cant argue with IFSA and ASC's approach. If you qualify, you qualify, no matter what!! I'm not bagging anyone, just ranting about this stuff. This honestly keeps me up at night because I love being a Pro Strongman but to the average Joe, they dont care!

Rant #2 over, I've got so much more but will save it for future Rants!!!

[Billy Wolt]

derek...

maybe the pros need to get together and try and straighting this crap out. the federations are nothing without you guys.

I think it's BS that the top athletes can't compete against each other because of politics.

[Elliot_Storey]

LBStone,

I'm loving your rants man. That kinda sounds bad, but I totally see where you're coming from. I don't profess to know too much about it, but what you say makes perfect snese.

On a different note, is free Red Bull enough to get you to come to Maine on July 7th? The purpose of coming would be to further the sport in the northeast whether you use it as a training day/expo, hand out awards at the end, sing "take me out to the ball game", anything.

[MarshallWhite]

Derek- You are making some good points...but you know as well as I do that for pros it is incredibly difficult to "promote" yourself and keep up with the incomprehensible amount of training it takes to be a pro, and your "day job" and family, etc. So who is to blame for the lack of exposure? We have no one to blame but ourselves...your comments here have opened my eyes in the way of showing that I need to post contest reports (no matter how small or large) after EVERY SHOW, the same goes for every pro. I think you did an AWESOME job at St. Patty's Day but let's be honest where was your write up, pics, etc? No one will do this for us, we have to do it ourselves. And it is not the WSMSS that won't let you compete in IFSA it is the other way around, IFSA wants a monopoly on SM and that is what they have set out to do....I have recently come around to being pro IFSA style of shows (except for the really dark production on TV) I think they are more entertaining and they are what the crowd wants to see but they need a name like WSM to really get exposure (that is why they need to allow cross federation competition). Also I think that if ASC would toss in a little something like a hotel room or payout to all competitors more pros would show up and we would have better pros, it seems like in ASC pretty much all you compete for is pride...and I'm sorry but sometimes that is not enough...although I'm totally bummed I didn't get to qualify for Nats this year! Again it is up to us as the athletes to demand what we want, not be told what to do by someone who doesn't care about the athletes. I'm down for any show any time I just want to compete and make a little money regardless of federation (I can't do Travs show as I am doing the Sequim one the same day).
Garrick- Comments like that DO NOT help they only encourage distention between athletes, which should not be the goal, we should encourage unification!

[Scott Tully]

Good points Marshall, some I agree with others I dont, we were going to provide hotel rooms at first for monsters of the mall, and realized this was gonna be a pain in the butt to try and do, so instead we gave away event win money, and charged no entry fees to the pros, the event win was 150 per event in LW and HW, and hte meet was 100$ to enter, and still only 6 showed up, plus we gave 1000, 500, and 250, alot of small pro ams give out 500, 300 and 200. Ive spent as much as 10K in one year traveling to shows to compete, help, etc becasue I love the sport, so when you put up money and guys still dont show up, its tough to feel too sorry. By the way the group of pros we had in Salina were top notch, and they were awsome with the crowd. But it would have been nice to have a few more out. Also as far as write ups or congrats who is better to do a writeup about there performance than the guy who competed, I agreee with you 100% there Marshal. We try to do a writeup whithin a day or so, because right after the show we are busy loading out the equipment, and trying to finally get a bit in, haha. I would have no problem paying each a pro a little bit, but if I do that at our pro ams, then the prize money will go down, I would think youd rather earn your money, Ams drop 100$ of dollars to win a plaque/invite to Nats.

Scott

[Garrick Daft]

Marshall, sorry if what I said came across wrong...what I was saying was between Derek and I....I just got back from seeing him train like an animal, and he confided his concerns he posted. Just kinda upsetting to see you guys work so hard for so little sometimes. Just like, what the hell do you have to do in America to get the respect you deserve as a Strongman athlete..... I guess if someone else doesn't promote you then the athlete has to do it himself.

Of course I'm all for Unification between USA IFSA and USA SS athletes....what better place to do it then at the Madison Square Garden!!

Off topic, this is a badass video and song!! Can't stop watching it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Vw402IaII&mode=related&search=

The Strongman sport needs to shake the political monkey off its back...what better way then if the USA Strongmen unite!!

Derek's post on St. Pats...nothing but good to say.

"BTW, Dave Ostlund looked great and the competition would have been a little tighter for the lead had he gotten a rep on the log. He was damn close but at 6'7", he got some damn long arms!! Tom McLure had a good show but he had a lot more in the tank. A mishap on the truck pull took some wind outta his sail but he was just looking to qualify and keep his back, knee and shoulder health. As of lately he was having some problems with his knee and lower back during training. He payed a visit to my massage therapist on Wednesday but his back was still bothering him before the contest. I expect some great things from him at Nationals and am excited that the both of us will be representing Connecticut!!! John Anderson was also just looking to qualify as his knee is only 6 months post-op. He killed the entire fied on the truck pull getting it 15 sec. quicker the the next closest competitior (Ostlund) and being one of the three guys to finish the ungodly heavy pull (lighter truck but for some reason the pull was the hardest I've ever experienced!!). Anderson also strict pressed the 330 log for a few reps! Nick Best was also a blast to compete against, he's so energetic and the crowd seemed to love him. I think he got in lifted about a dozen fans overhead for pictures well before most of us had event began warming up on the first day of competing. Guys like him are great for the sport!! I know his left bicept was bothering him after day one and his DL on day two was outta the groove a bit probably due to his bicept. Van Hatfield looked to be doing much better this year. He started off slow on day one but was definitly one of the guys to beat on day two! I was sure he was gonna pull 825 on the DL as the bar came of the ground quickly but stalled just below his knees. Rob Mulenburg and Ostlund also had strong DL's. I was shocked to see how easily they were pulling as the weight increased to 750, 775 then 800!! Van also hitting 330 on the log for 7 reps was very respectable especially while pressing on the stage which seemed to knock off a few reps from my OHP! There was no buildings tall enough or anything really to get a point a refrence while pressing. You were left looking into the bright blue sky which wrecked havoc on balance IMO!"

I'm all over the place...haha...

[DaneGarreau]

I'll take some of the blame for not posting about the St. Pats show too.

I was there, and I saw the dominance of Poundstone. Not sure if I posted anything, but in the future I will make sure I post a writeup(from the outside looking in) about every pro contest I am able to attend(which thankfully is a lot).

The pros do need to be pumped up more. I have been to about 4 or 5 live pro shows and they are awesome to watch. I always come back really pumped to train because the so called limits of the human body are broken there time and time again.

[Derek Poundstone]

Josh, Sorry if things seem to have gotten off topic a bit but think about the significance of Strongman at Madison Square Garden, only an hour from me and I wont be able to compete at an amazing venue. I regard myself as one of the top American Strongman and I wont be there unless things change! What a F'ing drag. This rant has been a long time coming for me. I see all this press for all the WSMSS stuff but ASC get little or no exposure!!

Marshall, great post bro. BTW, I heard you were looking massive and strong at Clovis. Your light hearted humor will be missed at America's Strongest Man this year. On another note, I compete for myself, not at all for money. I want to go up against the likes of Zadrunas, Misha and Visyal and hopefully come out on top one day!! In defense of Garrick, you have to understand where he's coming from. He just spent the majority of last week up here in CT and has seen first hand what I'm capable of. All have to say is keep an ear to the ground come Nationals!

Elliot, as a matter of fact I'm working on something with Red Bull right now, its funny you mentioned them!! But on the topic of your competition, let me know what you have planned. Is it a one day show or two? I'll check my schedule and let you know, I'd be glad to help out!!

[MarshallWhite]

Marshall, great post bro. BTW, I heard you were looking massive and strong at Clovis.
I must have been huge since I was all the way across the nation at the Mohegan Sun :F: either that or there is some other big red headed mortician impersonating me!!!

[Scott Porter]

What gives, a post about the possability of a SS contest at MSG and there's three pages of posts and a boat load of reads. Al Thompson posts the info about the Team USA vs Team World competion being held in Philly and there is a meager 8 replies and only a hand full of reads and it seems like no interest on this forum!! Also, whats the point of being a US Pro anymore, you get ten times the recognition by just competing in an amature competition! The two America's Strongest Man qualifiers got just about no attention, as apposed to the dozens of amature contest being held with threads upon threads of details about the contest! I found out all about the Amatures in Clovis but had to actually wait and hear from Travis to find out about the Pro's!!! WTF

Rant over!!!

Apparently you have not talked to Scott Brengal. He made it apparent to me that once you become pro you are no longer allowed on the internet.

In regards to your post: "Boo whoo"!!!

[Scott Markowitz]

Apparently you have not talked to Scott Brengal. He made it apparent to me that once you become pro you are no longer allowed on the internet.

So that means you turned down the pro card? :LOL: :T:

[Patrick McGuffin]

I must have been huge since I was all the way across the nation at the Mohegan Sun :F: either that or there is some other big red headed mortician impersonating me!!!

That was your Bizzaro world evil (or maybe in your case good) twin Lashram! Ironically he is a obstetrician.

[Derek Poundstone]

I must have been huge since I was all the way across the nation at the Mohegan Sun :F: either that or there is some other big red headed mortician impersonating me!!!
Thats what I meant bro, oops!!!

And Scott, "boo whoo" what?? This is a very relevant conversation about the current affairs of strongman in the US! Glad to see what page your on!!

[Scott Porter]

So that means you turned down the pro card? :LOL: :T:

Please! You think I'm going to listen to anything Scott Brengal says.

:BB:

[MarkSikora]

As a big time fan of the sport, and try to be competitor in the sport, here is my take:


All the above posts are relevant. I was there both days in Fresno/Clovis for the lw and hw Pro/Am. Best show I have seen w/o competing. I would have loved, and would still love, to here/see/read about ANYBODY'S experience there. Shoot, they guy that was the love child of Little Richard and Prince shouting out "It's just a baby" in his fey voice while the hvw and hvw pros were loading stones was worth the price of admission alone.

I think, what it boils down to is: like was said: We need pros or anybody associated w/ the contest to post up their thoughts. Shoot, there were a ton (literally) of pros and ams in Fresno. Great show in both lw and hw. But who gets all the press: New Lightweight Pro Scott Porter so far. Let me say: deservedly so. But....the lw pros, hw ams, and hw pros could also get some of those write ups....but...seriously, to get any press, you have to pimp yourself a little. Not even in a bad way, just post up a write up. Higa does it every contest, for himself and anybody he trains with. That gets some attat boys for his crew and some press for strongman in general.

Just look at the last couple of months here. The Freak Factory got Kevin Kinzy on a National game show, and Scott Brengal on a statewide (?) commercial. They did that, I would guess, with some of their own footwork.

Now, don't get me wrong, Derek, I think you guys should get one hell of a lot more press/publicity. But, unfortunately, it all starts with you guys writing up reports and gettting out there. Once again, this is not a slam at all. EVERY pro we have come across has been more than accomadating to us and has helped us out, be it working out w/ us, or just talking at a contest.

Maybe Nasinc. and/or ASC needs to have a full time meet reporter or something?? Shoot guys post up about events here, and on other sites, maybe there needs to be a central site to post up write ups that can then be distributed out to all other sites??

As for ams getting more "hits" on this and other sites: it's probably because they were competing w/ or against us last month/week/year and are now pros. A lot of ams just know them better because we have met/talked/competed w/ the more than the pros. It's hard to throw a slam at a 300 lb guy you never met before. :LOL:

Sorry for the rant. I firmly belive you guys deserve a hell of a lot more publicity, not just on strongman sites, but in the real world. I hope it happens for all of you soon.

Keep inspiring us little guys..

see ya

Mark

[MarshallWhite]

That was your Bizzaro world evil (or maybe in your case good) twin Lashram! Ironically he is a obstetrician.
I KNEW IT!!!!!!

[Derek Poundstone]

Mark, well put post! The problem with this sport is it can be very time consuming as Marshall stated in his post. Between all the training eating and for most of us holding down a full time job to support out "hobby"!! I for one have been doing a ton of leg work trying to get something together. I'm currently working with two sponsors trying to get some figures ironed out, one of which is a billion dollar company! I also have an agent in NYC who has been trying to sell me to companies for any type of advertising including print and TV. As a matter of fact, my last audition was for the Culligan water company who was looking for a "big guy" for a commercial. I got to the audition and I was 100 lbs heavier then the next biggest guy!! I think there definition of big and my agents definition were slightly off. On top of that I have a killer work and workout schedule as Garrick can attest to. He was up here in CT and experienced the insanity of my life first hand! It is by choice but I'm trying to be successful in every avenue of my life! So I for one have been trying and will continue to, we just need all the help we can get!

My original post has caused a major thread hijack. Maybe a moderator can move all these relevant post to another thread. Perhaps it could be named "Poundstone's rants".

[Patrick McGuffin]

I would but I am the moderator with special needs that has never done that and doesnt know how too. :BB:

[Jared Enderton]

I really enjoy reading write-ups of contests. Just like most kids, the more well-known the person, the more interested you are. I guess the way to get more well-known is kick some butt and post it haha! I hope this takes place at the Garden because it'd be huge for the sport.

[SBaier]

Edit note: I split the thread. Let me know if I missed one, or move a post wrong.

Great comments on this thread.

[NickBrugal]

What gives, a post about the possability of a SS contest at MSG and there's three pages of posts and a boat load of reads. Al Thompson posts the info about the Team USA vs Team World competion being held in Philly and there is a meager 8 replies and only a hand full of reads and it seems like no interest on this forum!! Also, whats the point of being a US Pro anymore, you get ten times the recognition by just competing in an amature competition! The two America's Strongest Man qualifiers got just about no attention, as apposed to the dozens of amature contest being held with threads upon threads of details about the contest! I found out all about the Amatures in Clovis but had to actually wait and hear from Travis to find out about the Pro's!!! WTF

Rant over!!!
Derek, its already been said but I'll say it again. The pro's aren’t visible enough. As of now you only have 67 posts and most of the pros that I know who read this board almost never post. While on the other hand guys like: Dan Harrision, Clay Edgen, Mac Smith, Scott Porter, and others were on this board talking smack and making prediction about the California show which builds a lot of hype and excitement. I didn't even know which pro's were going to show up to Cali until I saw them that day. I'm not saying that the pro's need to spend hours on the board but I bet if some of the guys had been on the boards making predictions, talking up the show, or even calling each other out it would be more interesting.

Show here it goes: Derek I'm taking you down at Nationals.

[MarshallWhite]

Show here it goes: Derek I'm taking you down at Nationals.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Wow!! Just.... Wow!

[NickBrugal]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Wow!! Just.... Wow!
And now you see what I'm talking about. I bet you're slightly more interested then before?

[craig kruse]

how many pro's truly contribute to this board. we are all busy. it takes 5 minutes to post a workout log. how many pro's post their log? not many. I bet all of the am's would love to read those logs.
how many pro's have put out a dvd? not many at all. people would buy a dvd made by a hand held especially if it was $10. It would not have to be a fantastically shot and produced dvd either. It shouldn't have to cost $45 or more.
how many dvd's are available of pro contests?
how many pro's give positive feedback to training questions. not many. it isn't because they are busy. promote the sport from within

[Wes Richardson]

I agree 100% Craig, also your log is just as sick and motivating as the pro's. JMO especially for us under 200's.

[Derek Poundstone]

Brugal, WOW!! Make sure your mouth ain't writing checks your body cant cash!!! :EL:

Craig and Brugal, I have 900 post on Irontrybe and just recently stopped posting a trainnig log. I held one there since November 04 when I started my comback. I also have a detailed log about how I overcam my tramatic back injury that almost ended my Strongman career!! I always felt weird posting on MarundeMuscle, Its another strongmans forum! IF that makes any sense!!

[Derek Poundstone]

Edit note: I split the thread. Let me know if I missed one, or move a post wrong.

Great comments on this thread.
THanks Baier!! Seems like a grat topic to discuss!

[Ian Duggan]

But then to take a slightly different view, whilst I love seeing pros doing interviews, posting opinions, writing up training logs, where's the website that covers the sport completely? I mean Ironmind has strongman news, but I've still yet to see a complete results sheet from Mohegan.

That's the top level of strongman contests in the US, in fact the WSMSS is one of the premier series in strongman full stop. And yet I can't read a comprehensive report on the event, complete with full results and interviews / quality photos etc.

Don't get me wrong, it's amazing to be able to read first hand opinions from Terry Holland, Marshall White and Jason Bergman, and I always enjoy seeing photos and reading the impressions of the members on this board who were there, but this sport is crying out for a one stop shop website. A site you can go to on Monday and be guaranteed to find the results at the very least from all the competitions from that weekend.

Look at MLB.com. A website like that for all aspects and levels of strongman, primarily in the US, but also covering world-wide stuff, is what's needed to bring the sport to a new audience.

[MarshallWhite]

how many pro's truly contribute to this board. we are all busy. it takes 5 minutes to post a workout log. how many pro's post their log? not many. I bet all of the am's would love to read those logs.
how many pro's have put out a dvd? not many at all. people would buy a dvd made by a hand held especially if it was $10. It would not have to be a fantastically shot and produced dvd either. It shouldn't have to cost $45 or more.
how many dvd's are available of pro contests?
how many pro's give positive feedback to training questions. not many. it isn't because they are busy. promote the sport from within
No offense but for most pro's it took a lot of work to finally get a training regimen that worked to get them to the level that they are and I'm not sure they want to just go around posting it up all the time.
Do you know how much time, money and effort it would take to produce a dvd? When would anyone of us have the time to do that? Most american pro's have to have a full time job as well.
In regards to the training questions...direct them at the pro's and I'm sure they would be Happy to help out I know I would. I'm not making excuses here but I'm trying to illustrate that although we could do more things like that take a lot of time and money so we will take it one step at a time.
P.S. you have totally inspired me though to be more pro-active in promoting myself and other pro's.

[Billy Wolt]

But then to take a slightly different view, whilst I love seeing pros doing interviews, posting opinions, writing up training logs, where's the website that covers the sport completely? I mean Ironmind has strongman news, but I've still yet to see a complete results sheet from Mohegan.

That's the top level of strongman contests in the US, in fact the WSMSS is one of the premier series in strongman full stop. And yet I can't read a comprehensive report on the event, complete with full results and interviews / quality photos etc.



I think i mentioned this in my post....results need to be posted immediately. NAS and ASC always take a week or sometimes several to get the results up.

I would be happy to create/maintain a website that covered the SPORT of strongman and post results of all contests...but I don't have a source to get these results.

[craig kruse]

Brugal, WOW!! Make sure your mouth ain't writing checks your body cant cash!!! :EL:

Craig and Brugal, I have 900 post on Irontrybe and just recently stopped posting a trainnig log. I held one there since November 04 when I started my comback. I also have a detailed log about how I overcam my tramatic back injury that almost ended my Strongman career!! I always felt weird posting on MarundeMuscle, Its another strongmans forum! IF that makes any sense!!


This forum has a lot of members. By posting here you will have a large audience. It will help promote from within. I would think this is one of the most known strongman forums. I had never heard of Irontrybe before you mentioned it, for what it is worth.

[craig kruse]

No offense but for most pro's it took a lot of work to finally get a training regimen that worked to get them to the level that they are and I'm not sure they want to just go around posting it up all the time.
Do you know how much time, money and effort it would take to produce a dvd? When would anyone of us have the time to do that? Most american pro's have to have a full time job as well.
In regards to the training questions...direct them at the pro's and I'm sure they would be Happy to help out I know I would. I'm not making excuses here but I'm trying to illustrate that although we could do more things like that take a lot of time and money so we will take it one step at a time.
P.S. you have totally inspired me though to be more pro-active in promoting myself and other pro's.


You are right, I don't know how much time, money and effort it would take to produce a top notch dvd. But I bet a ton of people would pay $10 for a home made dvd of Jesse instructing on stones, Kevin Nee instructing on deadlifts, any pro's instructing on anything. For a half hour dvd, how many runs through would it take to do if you had it all scripted out? The freak factory had a small section on a Powerlifting Video a couple of years ago. I know it was short but I liked it.

Dane used to sell some strongman dvd's on ebay. Do a search on ebay for strongman. There are NO instructional dvd's. I bet if you or any other pro filmed themselves on an events day just talking about technique basics it would sell a ton. It would not even have to be a fantastic dvd. Just something simple. Computers can copy those dvd's. I bet people could make at least $10 per dvd. can you imagine how happy you would be if you sold 50 a month. Who wouldn't want an additional $6,000 a year. Wouldn't that pay for a lot of travel and expenses for pro events.

[Mike Westerling]

I don't know if anyone already said this but this board is filled with am's and I think we are always talking about what we are doing and/or plan to do. It's like living in a house with a bunch of brothers who all play ball at various levels. They will discuss and be very into the NFL games but a lot more discussion would probably center around how each other is doing and their own workouts etc.....just my 2c's.
-Mike

[Scott Porter]

Good idea craig. I'll talk to Kevin and maybe we'll figure something out.

He's got a ton of experience and it would be worth it to just see his freaky strength. I might even drop some knowledge on ya. ;)

[Elliot_Storey]

I think i mentioned this in my post....results need to be posted immediately. NAS and ASC always take a week or sometimes several to get the results up.

I would be happy to create/maintain a website that covered the SPORT of strongman and post results of all contests...but I don't have a source to get these results.

Billy this is a great idea. Maybe take that small business loan for your gym and use it as start up money for your own website. You would have enough to make a top-notch site, and enough left over to get to and/or hire someone to go to every single show there is. Obviously ad space on a site like that would sell at a very nice rate, and you could sell other stuff as well. You could be similar to Jackal's in what you sell-including some new pro instructional DVDs perhaps.

[Nick Best]

Hey Guys, I will say I as guilty as others for not posting very often(especially after a contest), but the 24hr day just seems about 4 hours short to me. I am a single dad, work 45 to 50hrs a week, train, and play with my son. He went down about a hour ago and I took a minute to read some threads and saw this one. I love to promote this sport whenever I have a chance, I just don't have alot of free time. My boy comes first without a thought or regret! As far as calling people out well this is not WWE, most of the guys like and respect each other and don't do that (not publicly anyway). There is alot more I could go on with but I am about to fall asleep at the cpu. I will try to post more often. Nick

[Derek Poundstone]

Hey Guys, I will say I as guilty as others for not posting very often(especially after a contest), but the 24hr day just seems about 4 hours short to me. I am a single dad, work 45 to 50hrs a week, train, and play with my son. He went down about a hour ago and I took a minute to read some threads and saw this one. I love to promote this sport whenever I have a chance, I just don't have alot of free time. My boy comes first without a thought or regret! As far as calling people out well this is not WWE, most of the guys like and respect each other and don't do that (not publicly anyway). There is alot more I could go on with but I am about to fall asleep at the cpu. I will try to post more often. Nick
I agree with Nick!!! MOst of the Pro's I know are well accomplished in every aspect of their lives!! Be it personal or professional!! And I know Nick has his hands full with his little ball of energy (he takes after you Nick)!!! I, for one, can give you a million excuses for why I didn't post St. Patts. But I've posted a detailed overview of every competition ever since I got back into the scene in Dec. of 05 with the exception of that one contest!! I just like to dedicate my time to one forum and spent most of it on Irontrybe because it was the first forum I got hooked on. Doesn't mean I dont try and post on every forum. I got turned onto Murande Muscle by Garrick last year and he got banned form Irontrybe trying to get a hole'd of me to post here!! Ever since I've been posting here and browsing!! Listen, Pro's and Amatures, we're all the same. We all Love the sport (hopefully) and want it to grow in the US. I hate constantly being asked why I'm not seen on ESPN. I cant go into a 10 minute descusion with every Tom, Dick of Harry that asks me this question. As far as a training DVD, we'll se what happens. Maybe Garrick can shed some light on some ideas!! He has been spending alot of time filming SM events and editing video's!! :EL:

I plan to post a few video's of some sick training I've been doing to prepare for America's Strongest Man on both forum's over the next week or so. Its not a trainig DVD,but it will be better because its free!! BTW, you better study hard Brugal, you might learn a thing or two!!! Also, I'll show you how to Log Press at Nationals!!!!!!!!

[Patrick McGuffin]

BTW, you better study hard Brugal, you might learn a thing or two!!! Also, I'll show you how to Log Press at Nationals!!!!!!!!

Oh its on like donkykong now lol

[NickBrugal]

BTW, you better study hard Brugal, you might learn a thing or two!!! Also, I'll show you how to Log Press at Nationals!!!!!!!!
I will study long and hard, and then I will have your secrets :EL:

[Rob Haan]

I think some one should organize a strongman contest
and invite everyone, like the contest in Oklahoma a year ago or the strongest man alive contest from several years ago. It could be in the end of November or early December so it does not interfer with qualifying or competeing in WSM or IFSA world championships or any NAS contest and it would not be a qualifer for any contest. Any one could show up Pro, AM, elite international pro, freak that trains alone in their garage and every one would have to qualify for the final events. I think it would be a huge thrill for any athlete to be able to compete against the best. Their are no other sports that it could be done. Who would not want to walk up to the start of a farmers walk and turn to the side and see that Virystuk is on one side and Pfister on the other and you are all their to beat Mariuz's time. It would be the ultimate Pro vs. Joe contest.

The limiting factor would be money, who knows how much it prize money would be needed to get the top athletes to show up or what else they would want? Money and exposure could come from Spike tv and supplement companies. The supplement companies have more money than they know what to do with. Spike tv has done a lot for making MMA more main stream and not just a freak show. A web site could be set up with training footage from various competitors leading up to the contest to promote it. Or short training clips could be shown on tv as comercials.

Rob

[Billy Wolt]

Billy this is a great idea. Maybe take that small business loan for your gym and use it as start up money for your own website. You would have enough to make a top-notch site, and enough left over to get to and/or hire someone to go to every single show there is. Obviously ad space on a site like that would sell at a very nice rate, and you could sell other stuff as well. You could be similar to Jackal's in what you sell-including some new pro instructional DVDs perhaps.


I can build the site no prob....as far as paying someone, i'll just hold off on that.

If I could coordinate with promoters/competitors to send me results, write-ups, vid's the day of or day after a show, then it could be worthwhile.

i've scrapped the gym idea for now btw.....getting a regular 9-5 to save up dough for something else.

also...the sport is definately growing...our training crew has 2-3 times more regular people than it did over a year ago. I'm sure other crews have grown as well (hopefully).

[Josh Thigpen]

Hey Derek no worries man, i understand what you are saying. I just wanted to make sure that the importance of Madison Square Garden wasn't lost in the other thread.

Believe me man, I want unity in the sport as much as any other. I can see how having two federations can in some ways help the sport, but i would rather us all compete together. I am tired of all of the talk about who is better etc. When I think about strongman athletes or competitions I don't really think about the different federations, I just see strongman. Wish thats how everyone saw it. Either way man I want the sport to grow for all, and I am going to do my best to help out with that. Anyways, see you next weekend bro!!

[rjpe99]

This forum has a lot of members. By posting here you will have a large audience. It will help promote from within. I would think this is one of the most known strongman forums. I had never heard of Irontrybe before you mentioned it, for what it is worth.

There are several strongman on the trybe - a bunch of pros as well. I have posted my journal there for 2 years - its a good supportive environment. I know that I can put up a video there and get good constructive critcism there.

[ShanePetrelli]

I know for myself i think of the pros as a celebrity of sort. When you watch the WSMSS and finals and see people like Josh, Jesse, Terry, Nee, And the list goes on and on i think that it is awesome that i am on the same site as they are. My GF has people on her facebook or myspace but you know most celebrities have someone else post their replys to people on most forums. Whats unique about strongman is the Am's can directly talk and get responses and good support from the pros. I dont know about everyone else but i love knowing that there are pros that might look over my workout or how i did at a contest. It means alot to people to know that the people at the top of strongman are interested in what were doing. Just like in the NFL where the pros sign stuff and encourage kids to play football. In strongman i know we dont have quite the fans of football but we still all love running into Kevin Nee or Jesse Marunde. It makes our day. I'm still new here and to strongman with two contest under my belt and i would love to become a pro someday. I realize how tough it is to work long days and have a family. What some pros might not realize is most Am's have it just as hard. I dont have a family(kids) but i coach football and track, i go to Grad school which is currently an hour and 10 minutes from my house, try to do things with my friends and family, try to get all of my lifts in and try to afford contest. It's not that much but i'm out of the house everyday by 9-10am and dont usually get back until 11:30pm after school is done. Other Am's have it much worse. I guess the bottom line is everyone has to work, get their workouts done, spend time with their families, etc. Most Am's look forward and cant wait to get home to post on Marunde or NAS or whatever else they are on. I know Craig had his stuff up before i even got home from the contest. I think he does this because he is proud of what he did and cant wait to share it with the strongman family. I do the same thing. Not too many people respond to my Log or my post but i still feel that what i have to say counts and eventually people will reply and it will make me better. I'm not trying to say that Pro's arent proud of themselves but for some Am's Strongman is a big priority, because we aspire to be like you. I always look for any sort of post from the pros because i know what they are doing and they have to say is usually top notch. Also The pro Am's are a little bit more money i usually struggle to get the 35 or 50 for some Am contest that are close to me. I will eventually do some pro Am's and i think it will be awesome to be right in the mix of some of the strongest people in the country. I also think criag is right i would buy a DVD for 10$ on any event from the pros. I want to buy Phil's DVD but i just cant afford that much yet. Anyway Am's and Pro's need to stick together because we are all a part of the strongman family and there is no other sport out there in the world quite like this one, thats why i love it so much.
Hope i made some sense in there and didnt offend anyone. Later Shane

[Elliot_Storey]

Great post Shane.

[Jared Enderton]

Good post Shane. You bring up a goo dpoint about when a pro comments to you. Others, as well as I, see pros like celebrities.

[ShanePetrelli]

Thanks guys,
My point was that as an Am i place the pro's on a pedalstool because of what they have done and accomplished. I constantly read through peoples results to see how everyone is doing or if i recognize a name from a forum or previous contest. There are some really strong Am out there. Which only leads me to believe how much stronger you have to be to be a pro. With being a pro you have to be at your best yearround. Which is also what us Am's try to do as well. When i read a post by someone and see that they are a pro or pro thrower like Criag Smith, there is already a lot more respect to what they have to say. It's not that i dont respect the Am's as well because there are a ton on here that have some great post and seem to be really great people. The Pros just have more of an influental voice. If thats a real word... not sure. When they talk(post) i listen.
Later Shane

[Garrick Daft]

Poundstone showing me the bandaid on his finger, surfing the forums, and flex drinking Corona. haha just kidding around... Poundstone is around 315lbs with about 8% bodyfat I think. Just wanted to put some picture to the rant... :D

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

Posting on this forum will help.
I know there are quite a few lurkers 'tuning in'--some have money and good organizationals skills.
The write ups since Dereks 'rant'have been great.

[Derek Poundstone]

Poundstone showing me the bandaid on his finger, surfing the forums, and flex drinking Corona. haha just kidding around... Poundstone is around 315lbs with about 8% bodyfat I think. Just wanted to put some picture to the rant... :D Thanks Garrick, thats some funny stuff!!! You're wrong about the bf % though, I'm actually 8.5%, I forgive ya!!!

And for more info about me, in my spare time I manage my own small apartment building and work on my pride and joy Viper Powered Truck. I scared Garrick a few times in this thing!!!

[Matt Burns]

Thats a sick truck! I thought you drove one of those G-wagons(?), either way nice truck.

[Jared Enderton]

very very massive...also that is a sweeeet truck man.

[Garrick Daft]

I think you scared more of the other drivers then me...going from 40 - 120 in about 4 seconds while under an underpass with your exhaust makes a lot of noise! Plus you were weaving in a out of lanes passing people, crazy stuff, but fun!! :FF:
Who thought of dropping a Viper engine into a truck anyways?? :mag:

[Kevin Cronin]

haha, that was coming back from trianing, right? i was following you guys - i figured as long as I'm behind derek, he'll be the one the cops'll pull over and he'll be fine - but i couldn't quite keep up with you after that

[Derek Poundstone]

haha, that was coming back from trianing, right? i was following you guys - i figured as long as I'm behind derek, he'll be the one the cops'll pull over and he'll be fine - but i couldn't quite keep up with you after that
Kevin, that was just one of many times that I scared Garrick in my truck!!

[davebeers]

If pro's want to be more involved then they should involve themselves more. Simple as that


It would be nice to see the pro's get more involved in the forums, maybe post some training advice once in a while or start a training log

Here's a link to steve mac's log over at elite

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?tid=119&__N=Steve%20MacDonald

[Jeff Bach]

I have said it before but it all boils down to one thing. The Coin Rules the Day!

Kind of a crazy cycle at this time.

There is not enough money in the sport to give the pros the kind of time they need to apply to training and promoting. It really it two full time jobs.

At the same time more promoting will bring in more money.

What it will really take is the right people running things. Don't know if it will happen or not.

Someone with the money and fortitude to really promote and grow strongman would do many things.

Help the athletes have time
Bring in even more good athletes
Unite orginizations (Athletes will follow the Coin)

The list goes on and on. Unfortunately these "right people" don't seem to be around at present. Hopefully they will get attracked to Stongman and appear, or some of the existing players will grow to the level needed.

Until then hopefully Strongman will keep slowly but surely improving in the US.

My 2 cents.

[DaneGarreau]

All it really takes is one good sponsor, or one good TV deal.

Take a look at where the UFC was at a few years ago. They get one good reality tv series and the sponsors start rolling in.

The USS have partypoker.com as their sponsor and they sponsor every contest of theirs.

Also, promoting the sport the right way helps. Strongman is still a new sport and getting people to come out and watch is difficult. You have to bring the contest to the people, ie. have the contest in conjunction with a festival or something of that nature.

[rjpe99]

That is definitely key. I always thought it would be cool to have a big show in Central Park. Tens of thousands of people are in that place every day - free admission and you would get amazing crowds there.

[Jeff Bach]

All it really takes is one good sponsor, or one good TV deal.

Take a look at where the UFC was at a few years ago. They get one good reality tv series and the sponsors start rolling in.

The USS have partypoker.com as their sponsor and they sponsor every contest of theirs.

Also, promoting the sport the right way helps. Strongman is still a new sport and getting people to come out and watch is difficult. You have to bring the contest to the people, ie. have the contest in conjunction with a festival or something of that nature.

I don't follow UFC but doesn't it also take someone capable once the money flows? There have been a few money shots and it wasn't handled well. There where some decent contracts a few years ago but nothing ever came of it.

Leadership will have to go with the money.

[Ryan Brown]

I hope I am wrong on this, but I am skeptical as to whether strongman will ever become viable for TV--that is unless some fairly major changes are made to the productions IMO. On the contest level I have few issues and I think that is working well. I've always felt it was very exciting to compete in NAS or ASC contests. But I am no longer a fan of the TV. When I was into strongman hardcore everyday and thinking of it constantly, I would of course record all of the TV shows and watch them and think they were great. My thought was "how can people not love this stuff--it is so entertaining." My wife was like--"trust me; it is not entertaining."

However, in the last 6 months or so I have been fairly distant from the sport. I am recently getting back into training, etc., but with a little different view. I've had the 6-8 months away from it to gain some perspective. My DVR is still set to record the strongman shows. However, when I see them now I typically fast forward through them or even delete them after looking at it for a few seconds. Unfortunately they strike me as very boring; and this is coming from a person who actually knows a lot of the competitors and knows all about the events. The last few episodes I saw had some guys deadlifting for reps the same spherical balls I've seen a million times (a different contest, but essentially the same equipment); then they cut to some guys deadlifting the replica of the apollon's axle for reps. They were going one guy at a time. Now I love deadlifting, but deadlifting for reps on TV is not entertaining. I don't care if the balls weigh 900 lbs. And certainly don't show two deadlifting events back to back.

The only thing that is exciting on TV is a true competition--suspense. They did an ok job (not great) on the Phil and Mariuz show down. However, after reading the write up about how awesome the comeback Phil made was, I found the actual show to be a complete let down. Anyone who had not read about it would not feel the emotion of the comeback. On the IFSA stuff, it is so cut up now that it is just like random feats of strength--and boring ones at that. To me this is somewhat a function of needing to think about event selection when it is going to be a TV event; but a lot of it is pure production I think after the contest is over. So far they are missing the boat.

[Eric Johnson]

I hope I am wrong on this, but I am skeptical as to whether strongman will ever become viable for TV--that is unless some fairly major changes are made to the productions IMO. On the contest level I have few issues and I think that is working well. I've always felt it was very exciting to compete in NAS or ASC contests. But I am no longer a fan of the TV. When I was into strongman hardcore everyday and thinking of it constantly, I would of course record all of the TV shows and watch them and think they were great. My thought was "how can people not love this stuff--it is so entertaining." My wife was like--"trust me; it is not entertaining."

However, in the last 6 months or so I have been fairly distant from the sport. I am recently getting back into training, etc., but with a little different view. I've had the 6-8 months away from it to gain some perspective. My DVR is still set to record the strongman shows. However, when I see them now I typically fast forward through them or even delete them after looking at it for a few seconds. Unfortunately they strike me as very boring; and this is coming from a person who actually knows a lot of the competitors and knows all about the events. The last few episodes I saw had some guys deadlifting for reps the same spherical balls I've seen a million times (a different contest, but essentially the same equipment); then they cut to some guys deadlifting the replica of the apollon's axle for reps. They were going one guy at a time. Now I love deadlifting, but deadlifting for reps on TV is not entertaining. I don't care if the balls weigh 900 lbs. And certainly don't show two deadlifting events back to back.

The only thing that is exciting on TV is a true competition--suspense. They did an ok job (not great) on the Phil and Mariuz show down. However, after reading the write up about how awesome the comeback Phil made was, I found the actual show to be a complete let down. Anyone who had not read about it would not feel the emotion of the comeback. On the IFSA stuff, it is so cut up now that it is just like random feats of strength--and boring ones at that. To me this is somewhat a function of needing to think about event selection when it is going to be a TV event; but a lot of it is pure production I think after the contest is over. So far they are missing the boat.

I agree completely, my DVR is set up to record all of them and I rarely watch them, the current IFSA TV production is boring. The team compition from a few years back however where excellent and I really got into those.

[Nikhil Rao]

a lot of that could be remedied just by going to a head to head format. The way a lot of events were seemingly done a few years ago but not anymore.

There are very few events that CAN'T be done head to head, but very few that are...

[Eric Jett]

a lot of that could be remedied just by going to a head to head format. The way a lot of events were seemingly done a few years ago but not anymore.

There are very few events that CAN'T be done head to head, but very few that are...

The problem with doing a more head-to-head format is...how do you figure out points? IIRC, it was 2004 when they did the head-tohead competition in the heats, then traditional in the finals. You'd get 5 points for finishing an event, plus a bonus if you won it. If you only finished part, you get partial points. Is that the scoring system you would like to see? Because then someone could REALLY get hosed. Let's look at an example using, say, Steve MacDonald, because I think he is one of the best strongman at everything, not necessarily the best at any one event, but proficient in all.
Steve gets paired against Jesse in a farmer's race head-to-head. Jesse beats Steve, because Jesse is great at moving events. Next, there's a log press, and Steve draws Big Z to compete against. I think Big Z wins that heat. Now his times and reps were good enough to beat some of the other guys, but he is denied the bonus points because he did not win his heat, and those bonus points could make the difference between him making it to the finals and someone he would've beat in every event making it.

[Chris Bartley]

I agree with Ryan brown.

personally, i love SM but i find it boring to watch on TV. I think the IFSA shows are dull, very poorly presented, and have an extremely annoying announcer. the announcer makes comments that are simply incorrect.

i think the old school WSM's were cool to watch. i felt last years WSM was very boring to watch.

[Ryan Brown]

The problem with doing a more head-to-head format is...how do you figure out points? IIRC, it was 2004 when they did the head-tohead competition in the heats, then traditional in the finals. You'd get 5 points for finishing an event, plus a bonus if you won it. If you only finished part, you get partial points. Is that the scoring system you would like to see? Because then someone could REALLY get hosed. Let's look at an example using, say, Steve MacDonald, because I think he is one of the best strongman at everything, not necessarily the best at any one event, but proficient in all.
Steve gets paired against Jesse in a farmer's race head-to-head. Jesse beats Steve, because Jesse is great at moving events. Next, there's a log press, and Steve draws Big Z to compete against. I think Big Z wins that heat. Now his times and reps were good enough to beat some of the other guys, but he is denied the bonus points because he did not win his heat, and those bonus points could make the difference between him making it to the finals and someone he would've beat in every event making it.

I think by head to head, he could just mean having 2 guys go at the same time. This is done sometimes and it does make it more exciting. This does not require changing the scoring system. Essentially you are going against the field, but at least there is more than one guy to watch.

To me though this doesn't completely solve the problem. To be honenst I'm not sure it is possible to make a deadlift event exciting for TV. It is fun to do. Even fun to watch in person to me. But not on TV; head to head or not.

I guess my point was that it is likely almost impossible for almost anyone who posts on this forum to fully understand to what degree strongman on TV is or is not entertaining because most of the people on here are involved in the sport. I am not involved in football, but I still can find it fun to watch the playoffs because there is drama about who will win. The hype allows me feel the excitement or pain of the teams--even if I have not been following their season.

In the last six months I felt I became more like an average, disinterested person; not completely as that would be impossible given my background with this sport, but much more so than I used to be. At that point I realized that the strongman on TV has no drama and is therefore not that interesting beyond having the show going in the background at a restaurant (if you are not directly involved in the sport). The closest to drama has been Phil the american winning WSM--but like I said I think they did not make of that what it should have been. Phil created that drama by doing something incredible. The producers should have played it up much more like the Olympics or something.

[Ian Duggan]

I agree with the un-watchable aspect. This years WSM was presented flawlessly I thought (or at least five's coverage in the UK was), but even then now and again I was getting a wee bit bored with it, and I was waiting 6 months to see that.

The trouble is, as I see it, that the thing that tends to make a sport successful is mainly tension. The most exciting parts of all sport tend to be the latter stages, watching the battle slow unfold to it's conclusion. Add into this existing rivalries, and in most team sports some kind of area based affiliation for the fans, and badaboom! you've got a successful spectator sport.

Well, strongman has trouble with all of these elements. Even working out who's won a particular event when 8 plus guys are going one after the other can be tricky unless the TV presentation is PERFECT (and watching in person it's even worse), add onto that a minimum of 2 hours for the entire show, scoring methods that aren't always the easiest to follow (eg. zeros for not finishing / getting a rep etc.) and the waters become even muddier.

Strongman as a sport in general needs some kind of consistency to it. Go to a football / baseball / soccer game in any country, at any level and you know exactly what you're going to get.

Plus it needs some kind of progression to it. The WSMSS is good, top 4 qualifying for the WSM finals, but it need more tension to it. By the time the Super-series is nearing an end, it's actually the top 8 or 9 or more placces that qualify, because the top guys are already in.

Maybe some kind of league, with the top strongman in one division and the lesser / up-coming guys in a lower league... Or more national based events, although I'm still not convinced that strongman suits a team format. I don't know.

At the moment, the excisting fans of the sport are quite happy to potter along and watch things as the way they are, but look at the recent pro-am in California (the one that started this conversation / sequence of rants) - the most talked about aspect, on this board anyway, was the LW ams - because we knew the people involved and knew exactly what was at stake. Get that kind of atmosphere across all levels of strongman, and you'd have a much more marketable product.

Right, rant over. That ended up being WAY longer than I anticipated...

[Al Thompson]

We recently had three ASC guys appear on an MTV show "Road Rules"

Last spring Van Hatfield appear in a major role in the season finale of ABC's "Extreme Makeover-Home Edition."

Kevin Nee is in this month's Men's Fitness national magazine and Planet Muscle always covers strongman.

The "World's Strongest Man" is on ESPN2 all the time still and the IFSA World's is on the Versus network saturation.

Phil Pfister was on a number of shows including the David Letterman Show after winning WSM and was featured in numerous national magazines and the New York Times.

Magnus Ver is in a Coors Beer commercial that is airing all the time (Magnus has become part of the American scene I believe).

The Super Series has been on TV.

Jon Anderson was featured in an ESPN cell phone commercial that ran for over 6 months.

The Arnold is on TV all over the world.

Virtually every ASC qualifier and Nationals is on TV in that area in some way.

It's not like American Pro Strongmen are not getting exposure. Maybe there are no hot topics to talk about right now.

[Kevin Cronin]

We recently had three ASC guys appear on an MTV show "Road Rules"

Last spring Van Hatfield appear in a major role in the season finale of ABC's "Extreme Makeover-Home Edition."

Kevin Nee is in this month's Men's Fitness national magazine and Planet Muscle always covers strongman.

The "World's Strongest Man" is on ESPN2 all the time still and the IFSA World's is on the Versus network saturation.

Phil Pfister was on a number of shows including the David Letterman Show after winning WSM and was featured in numerous national magazines and the New York Times.

Magnus Ver is in a Coors Beer commercial that is airing all the time (Magnus has become part of the American scene I believe).

The Super Series has been on TV.

Jon Anderson was featured in an ESPN cell phone commercial that ran for over 6 months.

The Arnold is on TV all over the world.

Virtually every ASC qualifier and Nationals is on TV in that area in some way.

It's not like American Pro Strongmen are not getting exposure. Maybe there are no hot topics to talk about right now.

i think from 8 pages of posts it's pretty evident that people disagree, and feel there's a lot of room for growth

[Jeff Bach]

I think by head to head, he could just mean having 2 guys go at the same time. This is done sometimes and it does make it more exciting. This does not require changing the scoring system. Essentially you are going against the field, but at least there is more than one guy to watch.

To me though this doesn't completely solve the problem. To be honenst I'm not sure it is possible to make a deadlift event exciting for TV. It is fun to do. Even fun to watch in person to me. But not on TV; head to head or not.

I guess my point was that it is likely almost impossible for almost anyone who posts on this forum to fully understand to what degree strongman on TV is or is not entertaining because most of the people on here are involved in the sport. I am not involved in football, but I still can find it fun to watch the playoffs because there is drama about who will win. The hype allows me feel the excitement or pain of the teams--even if I have not been following their season.

In the last six months I felt I became more like an average, disinterested person; not completely as that would be impossible given my background with this sport, but much more so than I used to be. At that point I realized that the strongman on TV has no drama and is therefore not that interesting beyond having the show going in the background at a restaurant (if you are not directly involved in the sport). The closest to drama has been Phil the american winning WSM--but like I said I think they did not make of that what it should have been. Phil created that drama by doing something incredible. The producers should have played it up much more like the Olympics or something.

Ryan I believe we agree. (Just don't tell anybody:-) But I still think money and leadership can fix it. Done right with the right athletes it could be a lot of fun on TV. How exactly? I don't know. I am not a TV producer and don't even watch much TV. In fact it has probably been a week since I have sat in front of a TV.

I just don't see the money or leadership involved today. Hopefully a Joe Weider (sort of) will come along.

[Derek Poundstone]

Wow, a lot of great posts guys!!! Ryan, glad to hear you gonna be around again! Your opinions seems brutally honest but I have found almost everyone I meet to know about strongman. Almost every time I go out somewhere other then the gym I find someone asking me if I either play pro ball or if I'm a bodybuilder. Sometimes they hit the nail right on the head and ask if I'm a strongman but for the others that guess wrong, once I say I'm a pro strongman they'll say something along the lines of "oh yeah, so you squat cars" or "ohh yeah, so you lift up those big atlas balls". Then the conversation turns into questions of why they don’t see me on TV which usually starts one of my rants. Kevin is all to familiar with these rants!! So this leads me to believe that almost everyone has seen the sport at one time or another! I just think they have a hard time following it. It wouldn't make sense to play a football game then air it weeks or months after the game took place!! A regular schedule with only a few days between competition and air time would be great!! This is what Ian was touching upon.

Al's post demonstrates that Strongman is growing and I hope it will continue to grow. I have seen a huge growth in my past 5 years in the sport. I think NASS only had a handful of contests a year when I first got into competing and now there is virtually one every weekend!! ASC too has grown, There was no ASC when I first got my pro card, we were all IFSA-USA, I still have the old Pro Card. I just wish all the American athletes were on the same page and could be on the same page. What's one to do when they are faced with the decision of whether to compete in IFSA or SS?? There is a logical explanation to both and it seems like everyone knows the pro's vs cons of each, but what has troubled me is that the ASC contests have gotten very little recognition on this and many other forums. I think in order to make this sport great in America, there has to be a loyal following for the American contests. ALL the pro's need to compete in them. We all know the money isn’t there but sometimes things aren't done for money. If we want the sport grow in this country we need 30 or 40 Pro's going head to head in these contests. This will make us better athletes to better take on the likes of Misha, Zadrunas Virastuk and the other world class athletes and will also draw better crowds!! Once we can start selling out stadiums, the TV coverage will follow. Some big shot somewhere might get the idea to pump a bunch of money into the sport if they see sell out crowds. Think UFC, did people know all the contenders 10 years ago when they were growing. The answer is no but people still watched and crowds still drew because you had more then a handful of fights on the card. Next thing you know you get a couple of multi million dollar investors to purchase the franchise and viola, they make kicking the sh!t outta people a prime time show, WTF!! Look at the sports (an I use this term loosely) that Americans follow and that get a ton of TV time. First off you have your usual football, baseball, basketball and hockey. Then you have sports like Nascar and other sanctioned race events like NHRA. Does every fan understand the point system of the races, I doubt it but fans watch because they like to see cars go fast plus the added bonus of a crash. You also have poker, WTF, you wanna talk about boring, but they have found a way to make it very entertaining. Even professional eating gets more air time then we do. I can pick out ane thins from all the successful sports and show you how strongman has a similar side. You got a bunch of really big guys performing unbelievable feats of strength, what more is the to love. Why just last night I had to move an old coin operated washer and dryer from my building out to the curb for pickup. I called buddy but he was busy so I muscled each unit down a few stairs and outside. Once I got the things outside, I grabbed the bottom and top of each one and one by one walked about 150' with it to the curb. I had every neighbor either looking out their window or stopping what they were doing to watch this. I even had a car drive by slowly with the operator staring at me (I live on a very quit street). People love to see this sort of thing. We just need to capitalize on it and I hope one day we can!!!

[MarshallWhite]

Wow, a lot of great posts guys!!! Ryan, glad to hear you gonna be around again! Your opinions seems brutally honest but I have found almost everyone I meet to know about strongman. Almost every time I go out somewhere other then the gym I find someone asking me if I either play pro ball or if I'm a bodybuilder. Sometimes they hit the nail right on the head and ask if I'm a strongman but for the others that guess wrong, once I say I'm a pro strongman they'll say something along the lines of "oh yeah, so you squat cars" or "ohh yeah, so you lift up those big atlas balls". Then the conversation turns into questions of why they don’t see me on TV which usually starts one of my rants. Kevin is all to familiar with these rants!! So this leads me to believe that almost everyone has seen the sport at one time or another! I just think they have a hard time following it. It wouldn't make sense to play a football game then air it weeks or months after the game took place!! A regular schedule with only a few days between competition and air time would be great!! This is what Ian was touching upon.

Al's post demonstrates that Strongman is growing and I hope it will continue to grow. I have seen a huge growth in my past 5 years in the sport. I think NASS only had a handful of contests a year when I first got into competing and now there is virtually one every weekend!! ASC too has grown, There was no ASC when I first got my pro card, we were all IFSA-USA, I still have the old Pro Card. I just wish all the American athletes were on the same page and could be on the same page. What's one to do when they are faced with the decision of whether to compete in IFSA or SS?? There is a logical explanation to both and it seems like everyone knows the pro's vs cons of each, but what has troubled me is that the ASC contests have gotten very little recognition on this and many other forums. I think in order to make this sport great in America, there has to be a loyal following for the American contests. ALL the pro's need to compete in them. We all know the money isn’t there but sometimes things aren't done for money. If we want the sport grow in this country we need 30 or 40 Pro's going head to head in these contests. This will make us better athletes to better take on the likes of Misha, Zadrunas Virastuk and the other world class athletes and will also draw better crowds!! Once we can start selling out stadiums, the TV coverage will follow. Some big shot somewhere might get the idea to pump a bunch of money into the sport if they see sell out crowds. Think UFC, did people know all the contenders 10 years ago when they were growing. The answer is no but people still watched and crowds still drew because you had more then a handful of fights on the card. Next thing you know you get a couple of multi million dollar investors to purchase the franchise and viola, they make kicking the sh!t outta people a prime time show, WTF!! Look at the sports (an I use this term loosely) that Americans follow and that get a ton of TV time. First off you have your usual football, baseball, basketball and hockey. Then you have sports like Nascar and other sanctioned race events like NHRA. Does every fan understand the point system of the races, I doubt it but fans watch because they like to see cars go fast plus the added bonus of a crash. You also have poker, WTF, you wanna talk about boring, but they have found a way to make it very entertaining. Even professional eating gets more air time then we do. I can pick out ane thins from all the successful sports and show you how strongman has a similar side. You got a bunch of really big guys performing unbelievable feats of strength, what more is the to love. Why just last night I had to move an old coin operated washer and dryer from my building out to the curb for pickup. I called buddy but he was busy so I muscled each unit down a few stairs and outside. Once I got the things outside, I grabbed the bottom and top of each one and one by one walked about 150' with it to the curb. I had every neighbor either looking out their window or stopping what they were doing to watch this. I even had a car drive by slowly with the operator staring at me (I live on a very quit street). People love to see this sort of thing. We just need to capitalize on it and I hope one day we can!!!
FANTASTIC POST!!!!!! One thing though...you actually got a physical card when you turned pro???!?!?!?! Dang I totally wanted one...I wanted to whip that out at every dinner conversation or at every traffic stop I was involved in! Screw it I'm just gonna make my own!

[Ryan Brown]

good post Derek. To clarify my post, if I didn't think it could be fixed I wouldn't bother posting. I think strongman is very entertaining. I just think they need to figure out how to convey that emotion and excitement onto the TV better than they typically do. I have, of course, seen some strongman footage that I thought was great.

Oh, and Marshall, you do get an actual card or at least you used to. Get on Dione about it..lol

[Derek Poundstone]

FANTASTIC POST!!!!!! One thing though...you actually got a physical card when you turned pro???!?!?!?! Dang I totally wanted one...I wanted to whip that out at every dinner conversation or at every traffic stop I was involved in! Screw it I'm just gonna make my own!
You didn't get a card? Might be a new thing Dione is doing. Ohh, trust me, I've pulled the card out a few times but as you can imagine, no one was really impressed.

[MarshallWhite]

You didn't get a card? Might be a new thing Dione is doing. Ohh, trust me, I've pulled the card out a few times but as you can imagine, no one was really impressed.
Yes but did you WHIP it out with flair? Hahahahahaha no I didn't get one which totally sucks! I don't care if no one is impressed with it (my wife would at least act impressed) I would punch a hole in it and wear it around my neck just to stop the freaking football questions!

[Steve Kirit]

DP-
I think the popularity of strongman dips and goes up in weird cycles. I remember shows in the USA back in 2001-2002 where there were 100 pro am competitors and the stands were filled (boston, 2001) then two years later another show had 40 people watching.

A big thing about this sport is there is no professionalism in it's journalism. No official sight of records where interested people can actually look and see who has done what over the years and who has really beaten who and who is really among the best.

So then you have many athletes and people in power alike taking huge advantage of this, by promoting themselves , pumping up their favorite guys and creating a skewed public perception. This happens in everything in life unfortunately, the thing is, is that in other sports, take MMA for example, the dedicated fans are able to go to official stats sights and truly see who has beaten who and who the elite really are, unlike Our sport.
Until there is a hall of records and amatuers and pros alike will be able to form their own personalities and alternate realities and the truly heroic performances (such as your st pattys day destruction) will evaporate under a web of lies and manipulation. Yes, it is truly sad.
I remember at a pro am in WV in 05 where steve mac got his pro card, Schoonie was their helping out a couple of am's who couldnt lift a 300 stone said to him and I we look like big guys we should give this sport a try if we think we are tough enough. We just laughed.

There are a lot of great athletes out there, as long at they are all competing hard, I am confident that sooner than later righteousness will prevail (as it did at last years nationals) and a day of reckoning will come.
DP, you will have your day in the sun.


SK

[Mike Westerling]

...that a site that actually keeps track of all the records and contests etc would help the sport alot. I notice when I look up past contests on the anvil they will have times and points recorded but never the weights and or distances or details of the event. You see stuff like farmers winner got 14 sec, 2nd got 16 sec, etc.....without knowing the weight, distance, turns etc who cares? Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing NAS, I'm sure they have plenty of other stuff to do getting ready for up and coming stuff and keeping track of memberships and such for probably not a lot of profit BUT it would be nice if someone would put something together where promoters could post past contests and such and we could look up records etc......
Just my 2c's,
-Mike

[Kevin Cronin]

...that a site that actually keeps track of all the records and contests etc would help the sport alot. I notice when I look up past contests on the anvil they will have times and points recorded but never the weights and or distances or details of the event. You see stuff like farmers winner got 14 sec, 2nd got 16 sec, etc.....without knowing the weight, distance, turns etc who cares? Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing NAS, I'm sure they have plenty of other stuff to do getting ready for up and coming stuff and keeping track of memberships and such for probably not a lot of profit BUT it would be nice if someone would put something together where promoters could post past contests and such and we could look up records etc......
Just my 2c's,
-Mike

the problem with records is the variation between events and variation between the equipment itself. As far as the variation of events, how do you compare? which is better, a 300lb farmers for 50 feet in 9 seconds, or 375 farmers for 50 feet in 15 seconds? the second guy was moving slower, but the first guy might very well not even be able to pick up 375. What if you throw in more variations? Lighter farmers for longer distances, farmers with teh same weight and same distance but with turns ... the variations are myriad.

And as far as equipment goes, we all know that there are 300 lb stones and then there are 300 lb stones, the added challenge can come from larger diameters, concrete that settled kind of "off center," virgin stones with the concrete flaking off, etc Or to stay with the farmers analogy, farmers with long handles will be harder than farmers with shorter handles, farmers with a higher pick will be easier than those with a lower pick, etc etc etc

You can try to standardize it, as ifsa is doing, but even then that robs strongman a bit of its uniqueness, the fact that each show and its equipment has a slightly different "personality," for lack of a better word

[Eric Jett]

the problem with records is the variation between events and variation between the equipment itself. As far as the variation of events, how do you compare? which is better, a 300lb farmers for 50 feet in 9 seconds, or 375 farmers for 50 feet in 15 seconds? the second guy was moving slower, but the first guy might very well not even be able to pick up 375. What if you throw in more variations? Lighter farmers for longer distances, farmers with teh same weight and same distance but with turns ... the variations are myriad.

And as far as equipment goes, we all know that there are 300 lb stones and then there are 300 lb stones, the added challenge can come from larger diameters, concrete that settled kind of "off center," virgin stones with the concrete flaking off, etc Or to stay with the farmers analogy, farmers with long handles will be harder than farmers with shorter handles, farmers with a higher pick will be easier than those with a lower pick, etc etc etc

You can try to standardize it, as ifsa is doing, but even then that robs strongman a bit of its uniqueness, the fact that each show and its equipment has a slightly different "personality," for lack of a better word


Kevin, I don't think Mike meant standardizing it, but rather RECORDING everything. If I wanted to know the best time for a 340 farmer's, I look through the contests, find out which ones are 340, look for the best time. Also, there might be overlap between 4 contests that all had 340 farmer's for a similar distance, so one of those can be the record.

[Kevin Cronin]

Kevin, I don't think Mike meant standardizing it, but rather RECORDING everything. If I wanted to know the best time for a 340 farmer's, I look through the contests, find out which ones are 340, look for the best time. Also, there might be overlap between 4 contests that all had 340 farmer's for a similar distance, so one of those can be the record.

right, but then you wind up with umpteen records with every permutation(sp?) of every event.
Max Farmers Pickup
Max time farmers hold with 400
max time farmers hold with 350
and so on with decreasing weight
.
.
.
max distance farmers with 300
max distance farmers with 250
.
.
.
fastest time for 150' no turns with 300
fastest time for 150' with 1 turn with 300
fastest time for 150' with 2 turns with 300
fastest time for 150' no turns with 275
.
.
.
fastest time for 100' no turns with 350
.
.
.

and these are just the variations off the top of my head. Sure it might be nice to record it for posterity's sake, but you would wind up with some VERY random record holders, simply by nature of the fact that some events are not often contested.

In a worst case scenario, this could result in the pendulum swinging the other way towards LESS variation as every single contest becomes 12" log for reps, 18" dead for reps, farmers for time and stones ... and I cry myself to sleep at night because i'm bored to tears

Of course, this has all given me a great idea for the pro-am that you and I are going to put on jett, we'll have an 18 lb log for reps, 30lb farmers for max distance, a 105 lb yoke for time and a 90-95-102-112-115 stones series. Not only will we get our pro cards, but we will walk away with 4 WRs each in the LWs and HWs, since those events have never been done before. it will be sweet :cool:

[Jared Enderton]

right, but then you wind up with umpteen records with every permutation(sp?) of every event.
Max Farmers Pickup
Max time farmers hold with 400
max time farmers hold with 350
and so on with decreasing weight
.
.
.
max distance farmers with 300
max distance farmers with 250
.
.
.
fastest time for 150' no turns with 300
fastest time for 150' with 1 turn with 300
fastest time for 150' with 2 turns with 300
fastest time for 150' no turns with 275
.
.
.
fastest time for 100' no turns with 350
.
.
.

and these are just the variations off the top of my head. Sure it might be nice to record it for posterity's sake, but you would wind up with some VERY random record holders, simply by nature of the fact that some events are not often contested.

In a worst case scenario, this could result in the pendulum swinging the other way towards LESS variation as every single contest becomes 12" log for reps, 18" dead for reps, farmers for time and stones ... and I cry myself to sleep at night because i'm bored to tears

Of course, this has all given me a great idea for the pro-am that you and I are going to put on jett, we'll have an 18 lb log for reps, 30lb farmers for max distance, a 105 lb yoke for time and a 90-95-102-112-115 stones series. Not only will we get our pro cards, but we will walk away with 4 WRs each in the LWs and HWs, since those events have never been done before. it will be sweet :cool:

You have very good points and a good idea haha.

[Eric Jett]

right, but then you wind up with umpteen records with every permutation(sp?) of every event.
Max Farmers Pickup
Max time farmers hold with 400
max time farmers hold with 350
and so on with decreasing weight
.
.
.
max distance farmers with 300
max distance farmers with 250
.
.
.
fastest time for 150' no turns with 300
fastest time for 150' with 1 turn with 300
fastest time for 150' with 2 turns with 300
fastest time for 150' no turns with 275
.
.
.
fastest time for 100' no turns with 350
.
.
.

and these are just the variations off the top of my head. Sure it might be nice to record it for posterity's sake, but you would wind up with some VERY random record holders, simply by nature of the fact that some events are not often contested.

In a worst case scenario, this could result in the pendulum swinging the other way towards LESS variation as every single contest becomes 12" log for reps, 18" dead for reps, farmers for time and stones ... and I cry myself to sleep at night because i'm bored to tears

Of course, this has all given me a great idea for the pro-am that you and I are going to put on jett, we'll have an 18 lb log for reps, 30lb farmers for max distance, a 105 lb yoke for time and a 90-95-102-112-115 stones series. Not only will we get our pro cards, but we will walk away with 4 WRs each in the LWs and HWs, since those events have never been done before. it will be sweet :cool:


Then how about this: classify each as "heavy" and "light."
>320 is heavy. <320 is light. Then, you can classify distance, and decide what is more impressive and get input, what time is more impressive for a specific weight, and so on. It would take an objective person to do this, so maybe ask someone an the street what they think is more impressive, I do not know. Just saying you don't have to make it so complex.

[Garrick Daft]

Then how about this: classify each as "heavy" and "light."
>320 is heavy. <320 is light. Then, you can classify distance, and decide what is more impressive and get input, what time is more impressive for a specific weight, and so on. It would take an objective person to do this, so maybe ask someone an the street what they think is more impressive, I do not know. Just saying you don't have to make it so complex.
Good idea... maybe ASC or NAS can come up with "standard specifications" for the events and those will be what the record will be measured by. So therefore in order for it to be a record, the implement and conditions have to be the same as the standard. Require equipment makers pay to have their equipment "approved by ASC or NAS" in order to be used in an official record attempt. Now this doesn't mean that everything has to be standardized in contests...it just means that in order to be counted as a record and put in the books, the event must be performed on ASC or NAS approved equipment set to their standard specifications. Be cool cause then you can announce to the crowd that this is an official record attempt.
Past records can stand as is, but moving forward will be more official.
So like for example...
350 Farmer's for 250ft with 2 turns using ASC spec Pitbull equip. Time (or Distance until completion of the course occurs)
LW and HW would have different standards of course, with LW being able to hold HW records.
Have seperate amateur and pro recordbooks....
WTF do I know though...just trying to get in on the conversation...haha..
No offense meant to anyone, hope noone takes anything the wrong way, just offering up something for the conversation....nothing written in stone so to speak.

[Eric Todd]

NAS already has that to a degree. They dont have specs on the euipment (ie type of farmers walk used or diameter on stones, etc)
ET

[Ryan Brown]

NAS already has that to a degree. They dont have specs on the euipment (ie type of farmers walk used or diameter on stones, etc)
ET

This is true Eric. NAS does have an entire listing of the various events and their variations on which records can be achieved. And you see contests from time to time that are "record breaker" contests or something where several of the events are set up so that records can be set.

I think on the pro level Dione had mentioned actually requiring standardized manufacture of equipment at larger contests--just to maintain quality control. A good idea I think.

I think the reality right now is that it is up to the athletes need to sort of help generate promotion for themselves. Others like ASC will do what they can, but money is not unlimited and nobody knows more about an athlete than that athlete themselves. I have always posted a lot on the Internet; but I know when I turned pro I felt almost like there was some sort of pressure by example of others not to even post. I still did some, but always felt like some of the other pros would be like what is this guy posting about like he is something. When the top guys are not doing any promotion of themselves and you are competing against them you almost feel funny posting up your results and analysis on a board you know they are reading. Almost a "too cool for school attitude." I really appreciate guys like Travis and Poundstone who are two of the top guys and actually do post up very detailed reports with analysis, etc. People like reading that stuff.

[Eric Todd]

I really appreciate guys like Travis and Poundstone who are two of the top guys and actually do post up very detailed reports with analysis, etc

Amen to that. I know I enjoy reading reports, etc.
ET

[DaneGarreau]

Good idea... maybe ASC or NAS can come up with "standard specifications" for the events and those will be what the record will be measured by. So therefore in order for it to be a record, the implement and conditions have to be the same as the standard. Require equipment makers pay to have their equipment "approved by ASC or NAS" in order to be used in an official record attempt. Now this doesn't mean that everything has to be standardized in contests...it just means that in order to be counted as a record and put in the books, the event must be performed on ASC or NAS approved equipment set to their standard specifications. Be cool cause then you can announce to the crowd that this is an official record attempt.
Past records can stand as is, but moving forward will be more official.
So like for example...
350 Farmer's for 250ft with 2 turns using ASC spec Pitbull equip. Time (or Distance until completion of the course occurs)
LW and HW would have different standards of course, with LW being able to hold HW records.
Have seperate amateur and pro recordbooks....
WTF do I know though...just trying to get in on the conversation...haha..
No offense meant to anyone, hope noone takes anything the wrong way, just offering up something for the conversation....nothing written in stone so to speak.

Your absolutly right Garrick. A record is WORTHLESS if your not using the same equipment all to the same specs. IFSA does this allready and IMO, it's a great idea and a great way to keep track of records.

[Matt Reynolds]

Your absolutly right Garrick. A record is WORTHLESS if your not using the same equipment all to the same specs. IFSA does this allready and IMO, it's a great idea and a great way to keep track of records.

I think standardized records might be nice for the competitors but I'm always afraid of strongman becoming the same 5 or 6 events. The nice thing about this sport is that every contest in completely different from the last.

Additionally, I don't think records are that important in our sport. It's not a numbers based sport anyway. We did lots of stuff at a big strongman exhibition I put on last weekend, logs, deadlifts, etc., but the stuff that the crowd went wild over was pulling a school bus, a huge tire flip, and loading the atlas stones. The regular person has no idea what 600lb, 700lb, or an 800lb deadlift means. It's just weight on a bar. But you pick up a car, or pull a bus and pick up a huge rock and that means something to average person.

[DaneGarreau]

I think standardized records might be nice for the competitors but I'm always afraid of strongman becoming the same 5 or 6 events. The nice thing about this sport is that every contest in completely different from the last.

Additionally, I don't think records are that important in our sport. It's not a numbers based sport anyway. We did lots of stuff at a big strongman exhibition I put on last weekend, logs, deadlifts, etc., but the stuff that the crowd went wild over was pulling a school bus, a huge tire flip, and loading the atlas stones. The regular person has no idea what 600lb, 700lb, or an 800lb deadlift means. It's just weight on a bar. But you pick up a car, or pull a bus and pick up a huge rock and that means something to average person.

Yea, I'm not saying to make the sport like Powerlifting, but it was/is nice to have a few set records where guys can make/break records.

[Eric Todd]

I agree with reynolds on this. Standardized equipment might make things more fair across the board, make records possible and fair, but it detracts from what makes strongman strongman. I think it is fun to pull a big truck or a bus. However, it is not a completely fair event. What if they back it up 3" to the right for the next guy where there is a pebble? What if the steering is not 100% consistent (and it wont be, no matter how hard you try)? However, pulling a huge truck is impressive and enjoyable to watch. When my kids at school ask me about strongman it is "Do you lift those big balls?" and "Have you ever pulled a ...?" Never how many reps can you pull a ___# deadlift for. Not having an standardization is what makes things interesting. One day I might be loading a keg, the next time an atlas stone, the next time a field stone, and the next time a fire hydrant. So what if we switched to using the same size fire hydrant for every contest. It would be consistant, there could easily be records, and it would be as boring as watching someone do tricep kickbacks for reps. What makes strongman popular at all is that it is a freak show. When I first started watching it I liked it because it was freaks doing things that I thought I couldnt probably do. They were in remote locations with fantastic backdrops doing fantastic things. Standardizing things to any degree detracts from that as far as I see it. I know this type of stuff has been debated before, but this is my take on it.
ET

[Mike Westerling]

...what I actually meant was the records for that contest. There could be stanadardized records as well but I would just like to see the details for every contest. It would be nice to be able to go through the old contests and see exactly what was done. I don't really care which is better as far as different weights for distances etc. I would just like to be able to look back and say "so and so got 350 farmers with 12" pickup and 1.3" handles for 100ft with one turn in 30 sec...2nd place got 35 sec...3rd 37 etc...". That makes reading the contest results a lot more meaningful than just posting the winning times. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way though...
-Mike



the problem with records is the variation between events and variation between the equipment itself. As far as the variation of events, how do you compare? which is better, a 300lb farmers for 50 feet in 9 seconds, or 375 farmers for 50 feet in 15 seconds? the second guy was moving slower, but the first guy might very well not even be able to pick up 375. What if you throw in more variations? Lighter farmers for longer distances, farmers with teh same weight and same distance but with turns ... the variations are myriad.

And as far as equipment goes, we all know that there are 300 lb stones and then there are 300 lb stones, the added challenge can come from larger diameters, concrete that settled kind of "off center," virgin stones with the concrete flaking off, etc Or to stay with the farmers analogy, farmers with long handles will be harder than farmers with shorter handles, farmers with a higher pick will be easier than those with a lower pick, etc etc etc

You can try to standardize it, as ifsa is doing, but even then that robs strongman a bit of its uniqueness, the fact that each show and its equipment has a slightly different "personality," for lack of a better word

[Eric Todd]

I agree, that makes it more interesting than knowing that they got 23 seconds in farmers (what was the weight? What was the distance? Any turns?)
ET

[Kevin Cronin]

I agree with reynolds on this. Standardized equipment might make things more fair across the board, make records possible and fair, but it detracts from what makes strongman strongman. I think it is fun to pull a big truck or a bus. However, it is not a completely fair event. What if they back it up 3" to the right for the next guy where there is a pebble? What if the steering is not 100% consistent (and it wont be, no matter how hard you try)? However, pulling a huge truck is impressive and enjoyable to watch. When my kids at school ask me about strongman it is "Do you lift those big balls?" and "Have you ever pulled a ...?" Never how many reps can you pull a ___# deadlift for. Not having an standardization is what makes things interesting. One day I might be loading a keg, the next time an atlas stone, the next time a field stone, and the next time a fire hydrant. So what if we switched to using the same size fire hydrant for every contest. It would be consistant, there could easily be records, and it would be as boring as watching someone do tricep kickbacks for reps. What makes strongman popular at all is that it is a freak show. When I first started watching it I liked it because it was freaks doing things that I thought I couldnt probably do. They were in remote locations with fantastic backdrops doing fantastic things. Standardizing things to any degree detracts from that as far as I see it. I know this type of stuff has been debated before, but this is my take on it.
ET

Eric did a much better job of saying what I was trying to say

[Kevin Cronin]

...what I actually meant was the records for that contest. There could be stanadardized records as well but I would just like to see the details for every contest. It would be nice to be able to go through the old contests and see exactly what was done. I don't really care which is better as far as different weights for distances etc. I would just like to be able to look back and say "so and so got 350 farmers with 12" pickup and 1.3" handles for 100ft with one turn in 30 sec...2nd place got 35 sec...3rd 37 etc...". That makes reading the contest results a lot more meaningful than just posting the winning times. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way though...
-Mike

my misunderstanding. in that case I completely agree

[Scott Markowitz]

it would be as boring as watching someone do tricep kickbacks for reps.

Hey man, kickbacks for reps is A W E S O M E !!!

I agree with Mike W - I've often been frustrated looking at results and not having any idea what the weights were. For the contests I know the weights, I use the results as a gauge for myself. But seeing that someone got 4 stones in 35 seconds, not knowing if they missed a 270 or 370 5th stone doesn't tell me much.