Elite Athlete Strength??

[MarshallWhite]

So I posted this on another forum a while ago and got some good responses so I am going to post it here as well.....What do ya'll think "Elite Strength Athlete" numbers should be? I am talking regardless of specialization, etc. To be considered an elite strength athlete I think you should have the following:
400lb power clean
400lb overhead
450ish bench (raw)
700lb squat(raw)
830DL (belt only)
Now I know someone is gonna say "What about stones?" but I think that is a specialized movement.
What do ya'll think?

[NickBrugal]

I would bump the bench to 500+ raw and the overhead to 450. Other then that I agree.

[MalachiMcMullen]

in respect to the 400lb clean I'd say that is setting the bar quite high. Is there anyone here who can power clean 400? Everything else seems pretty good.

[Scott Porter]

What about LW's? You can't expect guys that give up at least 70 lbs. in bodyweight to most HW's to have the same strength levels, especially with respect to 4 of those movements you listed being static strength.

Also, why 830 exactly? Is that your PR or something? What's wrong with 825?? ;)

[Mac Smith]

in respect to the 400lb clean I'd say that is setting the bar quite high. Is there anyone here who can power clean 400? Everything else seems pretty good.


Our very own Seminole resident Matt Meinrod can hang clean 400+!!!

I think you hit in on the head M-Dub. I'm a little leary of the clean though because IMO it's a specialized movement that a lot of the freakishly strong cannot do. Either way, I've got a ways to go! LOL!!!!

Thanks for giving me new focus M-Dub!!!

[davebeers]

i would assume when you say "power clean" that dipping under the bar is not allowed
If so then 400 is a very good number and would definitely make a lifter "elite"

I would lower the deadlift to 800....alot of pro's claims to have 800lb deadlifts but i have yet to see video of any except kevin.

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

So I posted this on another forum a while ago and got some good responses so I am going to post it here as well.....What do ya'll think "Elite Strength Athlete" numbers should be? I am talking regardless of specialization, etc. To be considered an elite strength athlete I think you should have the following:
400lb power clean
400lb overhead
450ish bench (raw)
700lb squat(raw)
830DL (belt only)
Now I know someone is gonna say "What about stones?" but I think that is a specialized movement.
What do ya'll think?

Good numbers.
To be considered an elite strength athlete do you mean the individual would be capable of doing ALL of these lifts?
If that's the case the numbers seem to be a pretty good reflection of an elite strength athlete.
It would be hard to find a lot of athletes capable of doing ALL of these lifts.
-Perhaps the bench should be higher.
Maybe a 500+ bench.
Power Clean maybe over 425.
A lot of college football players hitting well over 400.

link to numbers of strong ,college age,athletes (www.nsca-lift.org/Awards/awarddis.shtml)
Scroll down.
8 football players and two track and field athletes over 400.
Several over 420.
250lb Full back Owen Schmitt with a 445 and Thrower Lance Pfeiffer with 446lbs.

[Elliot_Storey]

Good numbers.
To be considered an elite strength athlete do you mean the individual would be capable of doing ALL of these lifts?
If that's the case the numbers seem to be a pretty good reflection of an elite strength athlete.
It would be hard to find a lot of athletes capable of doing ALL of these lifts.
-Perhaps the bench should be higher.
Maybe a 500+ bench.
Power Clean maybe over 425.
A lot of college football players hitting well over 400.

link to numbers of strong ,college age,athletes (www.nsca-lift.org/Awards/awarddis.shtml)
Scroll down.
8 football players and two track and field athletes over 400.
Several over 420.
250lb Full back Owen Schmitt with a 445 and Thrower Lance Pfeiffer with 446lbs.

At least I had better numbers than the field hockey players. :o

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

At least I had better numbers than the field hockey players. :o
huskers hang clean records (www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=6174)
How about the huskers Baseball player(330lbs)or the Golfer(262)or the mens Tennis(244). :confused:
Kevin Coleman did 463 way back in 1993---why don't these guys get into strongman after track and field days (or football)are 'over'?

[Mac Smith]

huskers hang clean records (www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=6174)
How about the huskers Baseball player(330lbs)or the Golfer(262)or the mens Tennis(244). :confused:
Kevin Coleman did 463 way back in 1993---why don't these guys get into strongman after track and field days (or football)are 'over'?

Sometimes the body is just too beat up! I know several former football players that had longer careers than I had simply don't want to put on the weight (or maintain the weight) anymore after their playing days are over. They want to just work, enjoy their family, and enjoy life. Sometimes we just have to move on.

[tackle78]

Mac said it, I've known a few guys who had the potential to be great but not the passion. We had 8 guys cleaning over 365 last season. But aside from one of them who will go pro baring injury, six of those guys won't do anything lifting wise.

I would also agree on the clean being a little higher, maybe 450, but then say clean or continental maybe?....I don't know. And like Brugal said, 500 bench to me says "elite".

[Paul F.X. Armstrong]

huskers hang clean records (www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=6174)
How about the huskers Baseball player(330lbs)or the Golfer(262)or the mens Tennis(244). :confused:
Kevin Coleman did 463 way back in 1993---why don't these guys get into strongman after track and field days (or football)are 'over'?

Sometimes the body is just too beat up! I know several former football players that had longer careers than I had simply don't want to put on the weight (or maintain the weight) anymore after their playing days are over. They want to just work, enjoy their family, and enjoy life. Sometimes we just have to move on.

The guys that make it to the pros I fully understand.
I've had a few friends that played in the league and though much younger than me they are way more beat up.
I've even asked them about strongman and they've just said"I'm done--it's over--lifting weights was my job"

--I was basically referring to the hundreds of big-fast- strong kids(from College Football and from Track and Field)that are "left over"each year after the draft is over. :o or aren't part of the group of International/Olympic level throwers.
Guys big enough and fast enough and strong enough to have got a full ride D1 Scholarship--but not quite good enough for the NFL.
Even the players that don't make the NFL are far above average athletes.

---it's just too bad they don't find there way into strongman(some do :cool: )
There is so much potential strongman talent out there.

[Bob Toth]

I think Elite should be based upon your weight... and what the current world record is.
Average = 35% of World Record
Strong = 50% of World Record
Very Strong = 70% of World Record
Elite = 85% of World Record.

So for a Super Heavyweight - an Elite DL would be >852 lbs... (85% of 1003)

While for a 148lber - an elite DL would be > 722.5lbs (85% of 850lb record)
Very Strong 148lber = 595 lbs DL
Strong = 425 lb DL
Average = 297 lb DL

[Mac Smith]

The guys that make it to the pros I fully understand.
I've had a few friends that played in the league and though much younger than me they are way more beat up.
I've even asked them about strongman and they've just said"I'm done--it's over-lifting weights was my job"

--I was basically referring to the hundreds of big-fast- strong kids(from College Football and from Track and Field)that are "left over"each year after the draft is over. :o or aren't part of the group of International/Olympic level throwers.
Guys big enough and fast enough and strong enough to have got a full ride D1 Scholarship--but not quite good enough for the NFL.
Even the players that don't make the NFL are far above average athletes.

---it's just too bad they don't find there way into strongman(some do :cool: )
There is so much potential strongman talent out there.

Yeah, my doc says I have the body of a 45+yr old even though I'm 33. Too many surgeries, concussions, etc. I continue to compete because its fun, but I don't take it as serious as most. I think if I did I would probably do a lot better than I've done. Oh well, strongman at this time takes a back seat to family and career. There just isn't enough time in the day, I guess.

But a lot of guys who have the potential simply don't want to commit the time and money it takes to be a successful strongman. This isn't an inexpensive sport. And many of these top athletes (college, etc) just don't have the resources to get into this game. Plus they don't see the reward outweighing the risk. Just ask Matt Meinrod who probably has the most potential I've seen in a while, but he just doesn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Sorry about the hijack.

[DaneGarreau]

I would lower the deadlift to 800....alot of pro's claims to have 800lb deadlifts but i have yet to see video of any except kevin.

At St. Patricks day Van Hatfield, Dave Ostlund, Rob Muelenberg, and Derrick Poundstone both pulled 800 from the floor.

I believe Jon pulled either 750 or 775 and he was just coming off bad knee injury

[Jared Enderton]

I do think all of those numbers would be considered 'elite'. To complete all of those lifts you would be very well rounded, and very elite.

[Michael Ambrose]

I agree with this concept. I mentioned a powerlifting formula that does just this in this thread...

http://www.marunde-muscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6991

I see no reason as to why this can not be adapted for any lift. It also takes weight into account which you can not remove from the equation.

That being said, there's also nothing wrong with some general benchmarks that are weight neutral to define 'strong' and or 'elite'. The question is where do you define 'elite'? The top 1% of the population, the top 1000 lifts, top 100, top 10?


I think Elite should be based upon your weight... and what the current world record is.
Average = 35% of World Record
Strong = 50% of World Record
Very Strong = 70% of World Record
Elite = 85% of World Record.

So for a Super Heavyweight - an Elite DL would be >852 lbs... (85% of 1003)

While for a 148lber - an elite DL would be > 722.5lbs (85% of 850lb record)
Very Strong 148lber = 595 lbs DL
Strong = 425 lb DL
Average = 297 lb DL

[LeoKhersosnkiy]

no offense....but those are some rediculous numbers/statements....

400 ohp compared to 450? are u kidding me.....450 raw bench is light years easier....

First of all everything is relative....especially in terms of bodyweight. Also seems to me a lot of 'world records' are set in robotic costumes that lift a high amount of weight so then using that for % is pretty rediculous. For example what a guy does for his squat in a triple ply shorts+belt+knee wrap+out of monolift.....and using that for 85% is beyond rediculous for a raw squat....

there's also a reason why formulas like wilks are used.....

i like the 830 figure for deadlift...lol....that 148lber is sure one weak sob if he can only do 805....

[Brandon Campbell]

i think 800 dead is elite, not a whole lot of folks who can do 800+ deads 500 on bench is way to low, at the lowest 550, for an elite! 600 more like elite. Overhead if its front press, then over 400 is awsome BHN jerks more like 450-500

[Derek Poundstone]

At St. Patricks day Van Hatfield, Dave Ostlund, Rob Muelenberg, and Derrick Poundstone both pulled 800 from the floor.

I believe Jon pulled either 750 or 775 and he was just coming off bad knee injury I got a video of Van and I pulling 800 but Georgette is screaming like a mad women in the background!!

[MarshallWhite]

I got a video of Van and I pulling 800 but Georgette is screaming like a mad women in the background!!
I would love to see that!!! Please post that!!

Guys I am talking numbers that ANY elite strength athlete can do...I seriously doubt an oly lifter could hit a 600lb raw bench ( I could be wrong) and I dont think that most strongmen could hit a 230kg clean...but I do believe the numbers I put up are attainable by any Elite strength athlete regardless of chosen sport. Why the 830 dead? I don't really know I just thought that was a good number 900 is freak show and 800 (in my opinion) does not an elite athlete make...although I know a very limited amount of Americans that can consistenly pull 800 and it does make you one strong m'fer. I like the percentage chart but again only if they are the raw records.

P.S. I am talking for heavy weights lets say 231's and above but I would love to hear what LW's think is elite.
P.S.S. 400+ overhead to me that is insane I don't care who you are!

[Michael Ambrose]

I agree with the equipment statement made below. But how do account for that AND the often 'loose' judgeing criteria that is reputed to be used by certain federations? You can't, but you have to use something. I also agree that if the benchmark is for a raw lift , that has to be stated. If it's for any lift then you have to take all offical records into account. I did not specify that previously.

Of course there is the other can of worms that inevitebly gets opened... (not that I care personally) What's elite for a 'lifetime clean lifter' vs. the 'lifter that dares not speak its name'? You have the same basic premise as that used for the raw vs. equipped equation, an added advantage.

The formula I mentioned is a Wilks type formula. I did not write it. Mel Siff kindly passed it along to me and a lot of other folks on his Supertraining list while he was still alive. That man knew more about sports science than I'll ever hope to to even read about.

no offense....but those are some rediculous numbers/statements....
First of all everything is relative....especially in terms of bodyweight. Also seems to me a lot of 'world records' are set in robotic costumes that lift a high amount of weight so then using that for % is pretty rediculous. For example what a guy does for his squat in a triple ply shorts+belt+knee wrap+out of monolift.....and using that for 85% is beyond rediculous for a raw squat....

there's also a reason why formulas like wilks are used.....

[dave barron]

Who do you consider "strength athletes", beyond powerlifters O lifters and strongmen? Is shotputting a "strength" sport? Wrestling? Lots of sports where numbers don't mean much without results - an 800+ deadlift is NOT the same as lifting a 400# stone or clearing 16" in the 56# weight for height. Just saying...

[Matt Reynolds]

So I posted this on another forum a while ago and got some good responses so I am going to post it here as well.....What do ya'll think "Elite Strength Athlete" numbers should be? I am talking regardless of specialization, etc. To be considered an elite strength athlete I think you should have the following:
400lb power clean
400lb overhead
450ish bench (raw)
700lb squat(raw)
830DL (belt only)
Now I know someone is gonna say "What about stones?" but I think that is a specialized movement.
What do ya'll think?

I know Rippetoe and Kilgore's text, which is the supreme text on the subject, give numbers for different levels of athletes at different bodyweights. Those numbers are no where near what you posted Marshall. I think because of the nature of what we do, our views on strength are incredibly skewed. I wuld wager to say that virtually NO ONE can hit all of those numbers at any given time. Those numbers are therefore not elite, but rather world class numbers.

Accorsding to the book, an elite level athlete (say 275lbs), will have roughly a 410 bench press, a 275lb strict military press, a 575lb raw squat, a 610 deadlift, and a 365 power clean (all raw). (That's right out of the book). Anything above that is just furthering their status as elite and eventually to a world class athlete.

Now granted, those numbers look a little low to me as well, but I'd think to be elite in specifically a strength sport, the numbers would be somewhere between the book's numbers and you numbers. Somewhere along the lines of:
Squat: 600 raw
Deadlift: 700
Power Clean: 385
Bench Press: 450
Strict Overhead: 315

I don't know how you could say that all the pro strongmen in this country are NOT elite? I think all of them are elite level athletes and I bet there isn't more than a handful of guys who could hit all the numbers you posted on any given day.

An 830 conventional deadlift is virtually unheard of. There probably isn't more than 10 or 15 guys in whole US who can pull that. So that's not elite, that's world class.

[Rob Haan]

If some one lags behind on one of the lifts could they still be considered elite or do you have to be able to do all of the lifts with in a week, a month, or the same day.

As far a light weight goes I would say

power clean 330
over head 330
squat 625
deadlift 700
bench press 400

I also think moving with weight is important so some kind of carry should be included

[Michael Ambrose]

Matt,

What is the name of that book and what else does it cover?

I know Rippetoe and Kilgore's text, which is the supreme text on the subject, give numbers for different levels of athletes at different bodyweights.

[Matt Reynolds]

Matt,

What is the name of that book and what else does it cover?

Practical Programming. The first book was Starting Strength. SS covers how to perform and coach the basci lifts and how to program for a beginner. Practical Programming is how to program for any level of athlete - with chapters on programming for novices, intermediates, advanced, and elite athletes.

They are up there with Supertraining and Science and Practice as far as how much impact they are having ont he strength community.

Matt

[MarshallWhite]

I know Rippetoe and Kilgore's text, which is the supreme text on the subject, give numbers for different levels of athletes at different bodyweights. Those numbers are no where near what you posted Marshall. I think because of the nature of what we do, our views on strength are incredibly skewed. I wuld wager to say that virtually NO ONE can hit all of those numbers at any given time. Those numbers are therefore not elite, but rather world class numbers.

Accorsding to the book, an elite level athlete (say 275lbs), will have roughly a 410 bench press, a 275lb strict military press, a 575lb raw squat, a 610 deadlift, and a 365 power clean (all raw). (That's right out of the book). Anything above that is just furthering their status as elite and eventually to a world class athlete.

Now granted, those numbers look a little low to me as well, but I'd think to be elite in specifically a strength sport, the numbers would be somewhere between the book's numbers and you numbers. Somewhere along the lines of:
Squat: 600 raw
Deadlift: 700
Power Clean: 385
Bench Press: 450
Strict Overhead: 315

I don't know how you could say that all the pro strongmen in this country are NOT elite? I think all of them are elite level athletes and I bet there isn't more than a handful of guys who could hit all the numbers you posted on any given day.

An 830 conventional deadlift is virtually unheard of. There probably isn't more than 10 or 15 guys in whole US who can pull that. So that's not elite, that's world class.
For one I don't consider myself an "Elite" athlete...and I definitely think there are some Elite athletes in America for sure I know right now I could name a bunch...but I think your numbers are a little low I know amateurs that can hit those numbers...hell before I went pro I could hit them all but the 385 clean (mine was 352). I'm just talking a really high standard that a person could go by to say..."ok now I am a freak and I can compete on a world level" again regardless of what they have chosen. I guess I'm of the opinion that Elite and world class should be pretty much interchangeable.
Dave- I'm glad you brought that up...I consider HG athletes to be strength athletes as I do track and field throwers and probably even fighters/wrestlers...I guess any sport where strength plays a huge role in your success. (Not to sure about the fighters/wrestlers, I don't really follow or know that much about those sports)

[Matt Reynolds]

If some one lags behind on one of the lifts could they still be considered elite or do you have to be able to do all of the lifts with in a week, a month, or the same day.

As far a light weight goes I would say

power clean 330
over head 330
squat 625
deadlift 700
bench press 400

I also think moving with weight is important so some kind of carry should be included

That's ludicrous. Again, there would be virtually no lightweights who can hit all those numbers. I most certainly am not the best lightweight in the country, but I do believe I am one of the strongest at static lifts, especially the lower body lifts. I squat raw right at 600 (below parallel), I deadlift around 725. So even I'm not sure if I can hit the squat number. My pressing strength is my weakness, but I have close gripped 425, push pressed 320, and cleaned a little over 300, which isn't very good.

Again, those are not elite numbers. Those are world class numbers if we're talking about an athlete being able to hit all of them.

[Matt Reynolds]

For one I don't consider myself an "Elite" athlete... I guess I'm of the opinion that Elite and world class should be pretty much interchangeable.


Marshall,

Then that's where you are wrong. Elite and world class are defined terms, with world class being the elite of the elite, and "elite" being what the top 1% of all athletes can do.

Clearly you are an elite level athlete, as is Jesse, and I would consider myself as one as well. You're talking about professional strongmen in a sport where only the strongest in the world can compete working their way up the rankings until they win a pro am against the other top amateurs in the nation. That, my friend, is elite.

Now world class? I would never even put myself in the same paragraph as what I see guys like Sadler (as a ligthweight), Marius, Hussein Reza. etc. do. Those guys are world class.

[Reggie Brown]

So I posted this on another forum a while ago and got some good responses so I am going to post it here as well.....What do ya'll think "Elite Strength Athlete" numbers should be? I am talking regardless of specialization, etc. To be considered an elite strength athlete I think you should have the following:
400lb power clean
400lb overhead
450ish bench (raw)
700lb squat(raw)
830DL (belt only)
Now I know someone is gonna say "What about stones?" but I think that is a specialized movement.
What do ya'll think?

I'm sure there are more people out there, but I can only think of a handfull of guys that could truly complete that list. It's something to aspire for though.

Reggie

[Eric Todd]

I am a pro, but certainly do not consider myself "Elite". I have some work to do to get to that level. Nor do I think having a pro card makes you elite. Everybody had to travel a different road to get there, different people are at different levels, performance wise. To say I am elite would be to say that I compete at the same level as say Ortmeyer. I obviously dont.

That aside, I petition to make the strongman "elite" numbers exactly those that I can hit regularly. BEing able to say that I am elite would make me feel pretty swell!
ET

[Jay Hagadorn]

That aside, I petition to make the strongman "elite" numbers exactly those that I can hit regularly. BEing able to say that I am elite would make me feel pretty swell!
ET

That made me laugh out loud... :LOL:

[Ryan Brown]

I tend to agree with Matt Reynolds on this one Marshall. I think elite means a lot less than world class.

I further think that for a strongman to be elite he need not have any of those lifts necessarily and certainly not all of them. To me, an elite strength athlete would be a strongman who is very high level at strength feats and who wins strongman contests. Their static gym lifts may or may not be that great. At one time I'm fairly certain Phil Phister was tearing up most of the world in strongman and couldn't hit all of those lifts. I doubt Travis or someone like that who routinely wins most any big american contest would hit all of those lifts. The strongest guy doesn't always win. Lots of super strong guys essentially suck at strongman because they are not capable, despite their strength, of excelling on the events.

To me it is impossible to assign required static numbers to a strongman. Yes the top few guys in the world can probably hit all of those numbers, but beyond that I think people would be surprised.

[Matt Reynolds]

I am a pro, but certainly do not consider myself "Elite". I have some work to do to get to that level. Nor do I think having a pro card makes you elite. Everybody had to travel a different road to get there, different people are at different levels, performance wise. To say I am elite would be to say that I compete at the same level as say Ortmeyer. I obviously dont.

That aside, I petition to make the strongman "elite" numbers exactly those that I can hit regularly. BEing able to say that I am elite would make me feel pretty swell!
ET

Eric,

That's ridiculous man. You are clearly an elite level athlete. It seems like alot of you guys are trying to be so humble that regardless of how strong you are or what you've accomplished you'd never call yourselves elite. Admitting that you are an elite level athlete doesn't mean that you are claiming to have "arrived" or that you are happy with where you are. I'll never be satisfied with my level of strength, regardless of how high it gets.

Also, Travis is one of the top pro strongmen at his bodyweight in the country. You are one of the top pro strongmen at your bodyweight in the country. Hence, you compete at a similar level.

[Eric Todd]

Well, I appreciate the accolade. :marv:
ET

[Scott Porter]

I'll agree with Matt Reynolds.

LW numbers I consider Elite:

Deadlift 700
Squat 600
Bench...what's bench?
OHP 350
Log 300
Stones up to 400 in a series
Farmers 325
Yoke 750
Tire 900

[Terry_hollands]

I'm sure there are more people out there, but I can only think of a handfull of guys that could truly complete that list. It's something to aspire for though.

Reggie
We are talking about elite level here!!

I would say there are more than a handful that could do those, I for one can do all those bar the o/h press (Which I've hit 180kg which is 396) and I'm certainly not known for my static strength.

[Rob Haan]

Matt Reynolds- Ludicrous, I would say you are very close to all of those numbers from what you posted and I was close to all of those numbers. Look at the videos being posted Scott Porter has deadlifted 700 and jerked 320 on an axle in the last six weeks. You posted a 230 teen doing a 300 log. I picked the weights by adding a little weight to my best lifts which were not done at the same time. I would never claim to be an elite athlete, I competed in several strongman contests a few years ago and was mediocre at best. I worked hard on improving my events and my max strength decreased and than for other reasons quite lifting for a year and a half. Now I am working to beat all of my old PR's it will most likely take me 2 years to do it but that is what I am working for now and to do that I will be close to all of the elite numbers I posted.

my best lifts were
power clean 300
push press 300
strict press- 240
squat- 600 definately below parrellel
deadlift 615-3
bench press well over 400- close grip 405-3 when I concentrated on bench press and not much else
I have never weighed more than 220 and the power clean, push press and bench press I weighed more like 200 or a little less. So I beleive most of the top Light weight Pro's weighting 230 or more should be able to do at least 3 of the lifts and be close on the others.

Rob

[Josh Kamins]

I think that the original post idea has gotten lost in that he wasn't trying to find numbers for elite strongmen, but rather numbers that make a strength athlete in general elite. Be it Oly, PL, or strongman

[Reggie Brown]

We are talking about elite level here!!

I would say there are more than a handful that could do those, I for one can do all those bar the o/h press (Which I've hit 180kg which is 396) and I'm certainly not known for my static strength.

Cool to see you on here. You would definatly know better than me, that's for sure. Just seems that some of the numbers by themselves are reasonable, but the entire list much harder. That is amazing you can complete them all, then again your a large man. Nice job.

Reggie

[Scott Porter]

I think that the original post idea has gotten lost in that he wasn't trying to find numbers for elite strongmen, but rather numbers that make a strength athlete in general elite. Be it Oly, PL, or strongman

In that case...gym lifts are only means to achieve an end for the strongman. None of the lifts he mentioned are events in strongman.

As Ryan Brown said, there's plenty of top strongman that cannot achieve those "elite" numbers originally posted.

[Kevin Cronin]

In that case...gym lifts are only means to achieve an end for the strongman. None of the lifts he mentioned are events in strongman.

As Ryan Brown said, there's plenty of top strongman that cannot achieve those "elite" numbers originally posted.

well, except for the deadlift. there is the occasional max deadlift from the floor at some shows.
...and if by overhead you mean pressing overhead any which way including muscle jerks, that isn't an event in any strength sport that I know of either. it'll get red lighted in OL if the bar isnt caught overhead with the arms fully extended

I think what marshall is getting at is that most, if not all of us, know that there is a difference between being brutally strong and being a technician at the events. Sure, an 800lb raw squat might only be a means to an end for a strongman ... but it would still be really impressive to see

[Elliot_Storey]

All I have learned from this thread, I already knew...I am NOT elite. When I get there, I'll post my numbers so everyone knows for sure which numbers are elite. I think everyone gets the point. Other good points have been raised as well.

[Michael Ambrose]

Thanks Matt. I laready have Supertraining and do not utilize it nearly enough. I need to strat getting my act together and hitting the books again!

I agree with your point that with regards ot this thread, the terms elite and world class alread have some predefined meanings in the strenght and conditioning world. I think to many folks are having issues with recifying those definations with personally pre-concieved ones.

I'm more than happy with the top 1% being elite and like you said, I'm damn proud to be there (but I sure as hell have a LONG way to go before I reach the level of many guys here) and saying so will not make complacent... I want more... size, strength, speed! If we're involved in this sport, we already have a slightly compulsive nature and I see no reason to not embrace it fully :D BIGGER STRONGER FASTER!

Practical Programming. The first book was Starting Strength. SS covers how to perform and coach the basci lifts and how to program for a beginner. Practical Programming is how to program for any level of athlete - with chapters on programming for novices, intermediates, advanced, and elite athletes.

They are up there with Supertraining and Science and Practice as far as how much impact they are having ont he strength community.

Matt

[MarshallWhite]

In that case...gym lifts are only means to achieve an end for the strongman. None of the lifts he mentioned are events in strongman.

As Ryan Brown said, there's plenty of top strongman that cannot achieve those "elite" numbers originally posted.
My point in this discussion is that there has to be a "level" by which to decide a strength athlete is elite...and since most strongman events are specialized I think that these lifts should be the standard. You dont agree? Which lifts would you choose? And all those lifts except the power clean (unless you power clean an axle Bergmanis style) and bench are strongman events at some time or another.
And I agree with Ryan that there are a lot of top strongmen that cannot hit those numbers...but we all know what specialization can do...i.e. powerlifting. But if these strongmen could hit those numbers wouldn't they be better? (Myself included)

Terry-Thanks for proving my point..I would definitely consider you elite!

[Scott Porter]

True, but no contests I've seen have a deadlift belt only event. Unless your name is Clay Edgin, then you make it an evil deadlift for reps on a 2" axle no straps or suits. Typically you'll see them allow suits, straps, hitch, etc for a deadlift.

And the squat is losing ground as an event as well (except in WSM).

But we do agree. I think the lifts you chose are fine and are in a general sense. You are right that most strongman events are specialized. That is fortunate for me b/c I wouldn't be competitive otherwise.

Except bench. Laying down can't be considered a workout. ;)

[ClayEdgin]

Unless your name is Clay Edgin, then you make it an evil deadlift for reps on a 2" axle no straps or suits.

Hey, at least I didn't say that you had to use a double overhand grip! :)

[SAM SOLOMI]

What would you all consider elite for a 105kg/231lbs strongman competitor?