Business Advice (Personnel Training/Gym Stuff)

[Jay Hagadorn]

Hey Everyone,

I am looking for some advice...

I own a gym, and we are making our bills, excluding wages. We have been in business for two years and have never developed our personnel training base. I have noticed that there are many personnel trainers/business owners on this forum. If you have some success stories or good ideas on how to build a client base, it would be much appreciated.

Here's some side stuff about the gym:
6,200sq ft
400 members
brand new equipment (Paramount Functional Trainer, Paramount XL series, True cardio Treads and Bikes, Separate "Big Boys and Gals Room" where we have clean platforms, and freeweights.)
Dance classes
Free Style Defensive Arts
Code of Ethics based on Biblical Principals
etc...

I respect all your guys (and gals) opinions, so please shoot away!
Thanks
Jay Hagadorn

[patrick w.]

offer a free training session or two when new members join the gym.

come up with some sort of uniform physical fitness assement that the trainers can use to not only show clients where they need help (the value of PT) but also as a way to set goals and come up with a program to achieve those goals.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Thanks Patrick, I'll implement this. The suggestion is very much appreciated. What's your background as far as the gym thing goes.

Jay :C:

[patrick w.]

Thanks Patrick, I'll implement this. The suggestion is very much appreciated. What's your background as far as the gym thing goes.

Jay :C:


I am a personal trainer in NYC (have been for a number of years). I work for a main gym since it is convienent to get clients and meet new people to train. I also train people outside of the gym at private trainers gyms around the city or in their apt. buldings if they have a gym.

[patrick w.]

Other things you could do to motivate clients is have a wall dedicated to those that exceed at training. A friend of mine that had his own private trainers place did this. It worked great. He would have before and after pics and stats of those that were training to loose weight, for better heath and body composition. That motivates others to get a trainer as well as those that have one to keep on going! They want to work for themself but also to get up on the wall. Also, he would have stats of guys that used trainers for help with strength gains..like a before and after bench press and pics. Or people that are looking for improving cardio vascularly, stats like their improvement in speed in the mile or something.


another way to get clients is to pay your trainers a small fee to do floor shifts (like $6-8/hr). On the floor shifts they walk the floor (best at busy times of the day) and are there for people so they can answer questions or assist with help on form for exercises. A good selling trainer can help someone with the form of and exercise and usually get a few sesssions or more out of it if they can show the person the value of having a personal trainer.

[Mike Westerling]

I've been in and out of personal training and gym management for 20 years now. There was a breif time that I was in college and then got a few "real" jobs in R&D for the US army and then for a private filtration company. But, after seriously considering crashing my car every day on the way to work just so I wouldn't have to go I got back into personal training. I've worked in and/or managed a few gyms along the way and the two best set ups I've seen for personal training were:

1. Gym is open to all outside trainers. All trainers pay a $10 fee for every client trained (or 5 for half hour appt's). Gym also has a few staff trainers that do the free session with every gym membership. The staff is paid 10/hr but they are given first crack at all new sign ups. Usually once they get there business up and running theyu will no longer do the freebies but you just get the next crop of wannabee's coming in-lol.

2. Gym is closed to outside trainers and open to staff only. The gym usually takes a 40% cut off each session and only has one or 2 trainers on staff. The selling point to the trainers is that they will have no competition from outside trainers. The staff trainers will do the orientations for 10-15 per hour and get 60% of paid sessions. Once this gets going one trainer can be put in charge and paid a % of the other trainers. This approach makes the most $ for the gym but comes with the most headaches.

Like Patrick said it's all about salesmanship to work. Good trainers will put in a lot of free time and spend it hanging out giving free workouts to the members. For example when I first started I would just hang out in the gym for 8-10 hours on my off days and walk up to people and say "What are you training? Can I give you a free workout?" After 3 months I was turning people away. Recently a freind of mine started training and I gave him the same advice. It's 6 months later and he's doing 60+ appt's a week. If you are good at talking to people and know your stuff you can make a ton of money. If you are lazy and would rather sit around and shoot the bull you'll starve. Forget about marketing and spending a ton of money on advertising. Word of mouth will spread faster and costs nothing but time. Just my 2 cents.
-Mike

[patrick w.]

Both are good ideas there Mike and I have seen both work well. For #1 the only thing you need to be sure of as a gym owner that allows private trainers is having a good method to make sure you are getting all the money you should be getting from the outside trainers and they are not ripping you off. $10/hr for the outsiders is good (that is cheap as hell....in NYC you are lucky to find $20-30 fee for trainers). The only thing that sucks about the outside trainers, and my biggest issue with it, is that you are going to get some sh*tty/sloppy trainers and they could make your business look bad (even though that isn't your business at all). If I am in charge I want really good trainers to work for me and when you have anyone come in off the street sometimes the shit can hit the fan.

[Mike Westerling]

Both are good ideas there Mike and I have seen both work well. For #1 the only thing you need to be sure of as a gym owner that allows private trainers is having a good method to make sure you are getting all the money you should be getting from the outside trainers and they are not ripping you off. $10/hr for the outsiders is good (that is cheap as hell....in NYC you are lucky to find $20-30 fee for trainers). The only thing that sucks about the outside trainers, and my biggest issue with it, is that you are going to get some sh*tty/sloppy trainers and they could make your business look bad (even though that isn't your business at all). If I am in charge I want really good trainers to work for me and when you have anyone come in off the street sometimes the shit can hit the fan.

The gym I am working out of now was origionally set up as closed to outside trainers. I ran the department and refused to hire anyone I didn't feel was worthy. Eventually I had gotten so many people interested in personal training that I didn't have enough hours in my day to train everyone. I also refused to have people work for me that sucked. Eventually we opened the gym up to outside trainers and I decided to work just for myself. My busisness has gotten to the point that I am turning people away and a couple of my freinds are in the same boat. The staff trainers they eventually hired although they may gety a client here or there me or one of the other 2 outside trainers invariably end up with them. The problem is good trainers don't want to work for the club becuase the club takes too big of a hit and the ones that are just starting out don't know enough to keep the clients interested. In the end us outside trainers are making all the money and the staff trainers are basically sending the people running to us. That being said tha fact that the staff trainers stink doesn't seem to reflect poorly on the club. People come in get there "orientation" and when they hit a wall they come to one of the trainers they've seen get results. Members are psyched to get there free workout from the club and we are all too happy to continue the members training when they are ready. Meanwhile the club is raking in a few bucks from each of us every day. In the end everyone wins. Especially the staff trainers who eventually realize they need trainers themselves. Right now I am training a few of the staff trainers (and one of the other outside trainers). One is my best client.

[patrick w.]

yes, you are right about the outside trainers making all the money. the only reason I work for a chain gym is to get meet new clients and then they usually realize how much of a cut the gym is taking from me and offer to leave and go to a private gym and pay me cash. I make almost all my money on the outside. It is the only way.

Funny you say that about training the staff trainers. Not only do a lot of them ask me to train them or train with them but I have to sit there and explain to them how to do exercises and how to teach exercises. Pretty pathetic.

[Jacob Sauter]

P trains me :YR:

[Mike Westerling]

yes, you are right about the outside trainers making all the money. the only reason I work for a chain gym is to get meet new clients and then they usually realize how much of a cut the gym is taking from me and offer to leave and go to a private gym and pay me cash. I make almost all my money on the outside. It is the only way.

Funny you say that about training the staff trainers. Not only do a lot of them ask me to train them or train with them but I have to sit there and explain to them how to do exercises and how to teach exercises. Pretty pathetic.

The best is when I have them do something "new" and next thing you know all their clients are doing them. I had this one guy who wants to bench big start doing floor presses. 2 hours later I see him haveing a 45 year old soccor mom laying in the power rack banging out forced reps with the bar-lol.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Like Patrick said it's all about salesmanship to work. Good trainers will put in a lot of free time and spend it hanging out giving free workouts to the members. For example when I first started I would just hang out in the gym for 8-10 hours on my off days and walk up to people and say "What are you training? Can I give you a free workout?" After 3 months I was turning people away. Recently a freind of mine started training and I gave him the same advice. It's 6 months later and he's doing 60+ appt's a week. If you are good at talking to people and know your stuff you can make a ton of money. If you are lazy and would rather sit around and shoot the bull you'll starve. Forget about marketing and spending a ton of money on advertising. Word of mouth will spread faster and costs nothing but time. Just my 2 cents.
-Mike

This is all great advice. I very much appreciate the input! My biggest challenge has been the time issue. My wife and I started the gym on a "shoe string budget" and a prayer, and 2 1/2 years later it's starting to pay off. I've been selling gym equipment, doing evangelism/strength demos, running the gym (that means everything down to scrubbing the toilets,) all while neglecting personal training which is a huge revenue. I've pulled my head out of my glute area. I am quiting the gym equipment sales. The reality is that if you have your hands in a ton of fires, you'll never get any of them burning hot. I am investing more time in our clientele now to grow the the training base. Currently my wife and I are the only trainers in the club.
By the way Mike, your comments about the military and civilian "real job" thing cracked me up. Sounds like what I went through (but I was a medic.) Thanks again guys, keep 'em coming if you have anything else.
-Jay

[Patrick McGuffin]

wait there are trainers out there who dont even know what they are doing?????what the heck is that!!(i am sorry but its not rocket science, if they dont know what they are talking about they shouldnt be there)

[patrick w.]

wait there are trainers out there who dont even know what they are doing?????what the heck is that!!(i am sorry but its not rocket science, if they dont know what they are talking about they shouldnt be there)


haha, you are young my friend. You will see when you enter the work world. There are people out there in every profession that don't know what they are doing....doctors, lawyers, etc....A lot of people don't take the time neccessary to learn things properly and end up going through life flying by the seat of their pants. Being a trainer, it is pretty easy to get a certification and if you can talk a lot of BS and are a pretty good sales person you can get a good client list.

[Mike Westerling]

wait there are trainers out there who dont even know what they are doing?????what the heck is that!!(i am sorry but its not rocket science, if they dont know what they are talking about they shouldnt be there)

You're right my freind it's not rocket science. It's easy to train healthy people interested in attaining the same goals you have already attained (ie your same age buddy who wants to bench as much as you). BUT would you know what to do with a 60 year old lady that's been inactive for so long she comes in in a wheel chair even though there's nothing actually wrong with her? Just showing someone the correct exercise form is a small part of what we do. We must make sure thay are progressing at a rate their bodies AND mind can cope with. Making sure they stay motivated and dont burn them out. Not everyone is willing to do 20 reps to failure on the squat. They need to be conditioned over time to get to that level both emotionally and physically. Also finding the right biomechanics for them to perform an exercise with. Not everybody fits in to the textbook example on every exercise. I can't tell you how many times I've had a client adjust his elbows to the "incorrect" position ever so slightly during an exercise and have it relive all shoulder pain he had been experiencing for years on that very same exercise. People are putting there health and well being in our hands. Making an investment in themselves to make sure their precious time is spent wisely in the gym. I agree with you that those that don't know what they are doing shouldn't be allowed to train any one. However, people think "training isn't rocket science, I'll just get certified and make a ton of money". Next thing you know theres a bunch of know-it-all's running around the gym having their clients balancing on swiss balls playing catch with a mediceine ball.

[Mike Westerling]

This is all great advice. I very much appreciate the input! My biggest challenge has been the time issue. My wife and I started the gym on a "shoe string budget" and a prayer, and 2 1/2 years later it's starting to pay off. I've been selling gym equipment, doing evangelism/strength demos, running the gym (that means everything down to scrubbing the toilets,) all while neglecting personal training which is a huge revenue. I've pulled my head out of my glute area. I am quiting the gym equipment sales. The reality is that if you have your hands in a ton of fires, you'll never get any of them burning hot. I am investing more time in our clientele now to grow the the training base. Currently my wife and I are the only trainers in the club.
By the way Mike, your comments about the military and civilian "real job" thing cracked me up. Sounds like what I went through (but I was a medic.) Thanks again guys, keep 'em coming if you have anything else.
-Jay

Jay,
Congrats on starting out with so little and getting it going. I know after helping open quite a few gyms that it takes a lot of money to get going smoothly. Starting out on a "shoe string" budget and becoming sucessful is one of the hardest things you will do. You should be proud of yourselves. My wife just finished opening a Gold's a couple of months ago (as general manager-we don't own a peice unfortunately) and they were working on an almost unlimited budget and it was still a headache. They are now up to about 2000 members and it's going well. Giving up equipment sales was a good move. Start investing all your time into getting training clients. Hire a few recently certified trainers to show off the equipment to new and/or existing members BUT make sure it's known that they are apprentices. Teach the trainers from your own experience and handle all the set ups of programs and the like your selves. For example: Suzie Smith comes in and wants to join but has never used the equipment. One of your apprentces spends an hour (he gets $10) showing her how to use what ever she is interested in. Then at the end of the session says "If you are interested in a personally tailored program I can set you up with the owner or his wife for X number of dollars". If Suzie is interested you take her and personally set her up with a program and take her through it with your apprentice watching and taking notes. Once the program is established the apprentice will be responsible for taking her through her paces on a daily basis. You charge say $100 for the initial 1-1 1/2 hrs when you are with her personally then 40 for the hours your apprentice is with her. The apprentice gets 25 for his time and you get 15. The selling is this: The apprentice gets to learn from the master at 25/hr he is paying you the 15 for use of your gym and the experience you are giving him also you are there to help him at all times with your vast experience. The client gets a trainer at a good price 40 and you get a peice of every hour becuase it is your rep on the line. Once you feel the apprentice is ready you set him up with the same deal as you. He becomes a head trainer and can generate his own business and charge whatever he wants. You then charge 10 per hour for the use of your gym. You only let people come in as apprentices to you and work there way up to head trainer status. That way you always have total control. The overhead is zilch becuase they would be covered under your insurance so you really don't have any added expenses. You could have 20 apprentices working for you at once plus a couple of head trainers. Eventually you could step away and let your head trainers take care of all the set ups and you just sign the checks. I personally would opt to stay in control of program set ups as I like to make sure the clients are getting the best they can and I have very little faith in otherers-lol.

Where are you guys located?

[patrick w.]

You're right my freind it's not rocket science. It's easy to train healthy people interested in attaining the same goals you have already attained (ie your same age buddy who wants to bench as much as you). BUT would you know what to do with a 60 year old lady that's been inactive for so long she comes in in a wheel chair even though there's nothing actually wrong with her? Just showing someone the correct exercise form is a small part of what we do. We must make sure thay are progressing at a rate their bodies AND mind can cope with. Making sure they stay motivated and dont burn them out. Not everyone is willing to do 20 reps to failure on the squat. They need to be conditioned over time to get to that level both emotionally and physically. Also finding the right biomechanics for them to perform an exercise with. Not everybody fits in to the textbook example on every exercise. I can't tell you how many times I've had a client adjust his elbows to the "incorrect" position ever so slightly during an exercise and have it relive all shoulder pain he had been experiencing for years on that very same exercise. People are putting there health and well being in our hands. Making an investment in themselves to make sure their precious time is spent wisely in the gym. I agree with you that those that don't know what they are doing shouldn't be allowed to train any one. However, people think "training isn't rocket science, I'll just get certified and make a ton of money". Next thing you know theres a bunch of know-it-all's running around the gym having their clients balancing on swiss balls playing catch with a mediceine ball.



:YT:


Excellent Mike! I could not agree more.

[Jay Hagadorn]

Jay,

Where are you guys located?

We are in Nampa.ID (two cities West of Boise). Within a six mile radius there's the Nampa, Rec Center (12,000 cardholders including the kids,) Gold's Gym (2,000 members), a new YMCA getting ready to open, Idaho Athletic Club(2,500 members,) Valley Total Fitness (1,000 members,) and then us (Genesis Fitness,) w/ 400 members. Our overhead is really low and we are the only "small club" @ 6,200 sq ft. We also nitch market, so we don''t have any big worries. These other facilities are running on financial deficits annually. The rec center fell short $500,000 last year which the tax payers made up. Gold's has a huge overhead. I don't know where they are at now, but they were falling way short several months ago. The salesmen were traveling to Boise placing boxes to "hook" more memberships on multi use facility options. The population base to pull members out of (Nampa, Caldwell, rural areas,) is about 150,000 in a six-eight mile radius. There are also six women only circuit gyms which I have learned to look at differently. Women come out of there seeing a few results, they're not as intimidated anymore, but they get bored. We have pulled many women onto our membership base after they have left the women only "circuit" gyms.
I'll take some pics and post them on this thread so you can see our set up.

-Jay

[Jason Bergmann]

Mike W and Patrick W,
great advice your experience shows through your informative posts. I could only wish for this much reaffirming info on the NSCA board. I have to agree that most people believe that personal training is not rocket science. I would have to say that i agree when it comes to the basics but when you account for the individuality of every person or client out there that's when it becomes challenging and exciting to be a good trainer. I've been training myself for about 6 years professionally and there isn't a single day that goes by where i don't learn something new about my clients or the adaptation process. The biggest factor that I find to be helpful in getting my clients to reach thier goals is setting their programs according to their specific needs and their abilities. Everyone progresses at a different rate and helping my clients understand that helps to keep them from setting unrealistic goals. Currently, I think that exercise psychology would be the greatest benefit to certified trainers that already have a good grasp on the physiological side of training. Sports psych is already developed but there is very little research on exercise psychology for the non-athletic population.
Mike,
I agree with your 1st scenario but it's hard to get that to swing with chain clubs. I was able to negotiate a 70/30 split with gym clients. even though the club does nothing to advertise or promote my training. I would like the set hourly rate because my rates have been going up due to demand and specialized training.
I also agree with the fact that there are alot of trainers out there that do not have any idea of what the true concept of PT really is. I used to be the fitness director at Gold's Gym up in Wisconsin and over a two year period I hired two trainers out of 40 interviews becuase they were the only two that met the qaulifications. Thanks again for the informative posts.
Just my 2 cents

[kara]

jay, congratulations on coming so far with your gym! this is a really great thread. awesome advice that i will be using myself. everyone on this board is so generous with their knowledge.